Who’s going to Tesla after their current TDI?

turbobrick240

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Hahaha I didn't. I've had the ID4 on order for 6 months ( wife is now going to replace her 11 yr old car when that comes in ). Polestar seems to have some in stock regularly. I think a lot of people are sleeping on the brand not realizing it is a subsidiary of Volvo. Honestly you probably could "order" one thats in stock @ Polestar boston, but you'd have to go there from Maine... They had 1 - 2 dozen in stock and I snatched one up quick. I should have it this weekend but it was nice when I test drove it. You also get Free 30 min EA charging for 2 yrs, and included 3 yrs maintenance.

And they are 100% MSRP... nothing over priced, and they are very direct on trade-in pricing because they just wholesale the car. Super easy process. Ordered, next day finance and etc... was done.
Damn, that's incredible! One of the best EVs out there, in this incredibly hot market for EVs- beggars belief. You must be right, people just don't know about it yet. They need to bump up their ad campaign, I guess. Post up some pics when you get it.

Are you getting the dual motor? Looks like you get WAY more power and awd for not much more $ with the dual motor.
 
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Daemon64

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Damn, that's incredible! One of the best EVs out there, in this incredibly hot market for EVs- beggars belief. You must be right, people just don't know about it yet. They need to bump up their ad campaign, I guess. Post up some pics when you get it.

Are you getting the dual motor? Looks like you get WAY more power and awd for not much more $ with the dual motor.

I will about the pics. Yes I got the awd in the color thunder w/ the 19s and the plus pack only. 0-60 in 4.45s 408hp / 487 tq. They will be offering an OTA for $1100 that bumps it up to 478hp / 508 tq and 0-60 drops to around 4.1s.... insane and for reference it weight 4680lbs... my tdi weighed 4430, and PHEV 4617.
 
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turbobrick240

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maine
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Sweet! Those "Thor's hammer" DRLs sure are distinctive. Do the rear blinkers do the sequential thing across the lightbar?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I saw the CEO of Hertz and a rep from Polestar on CNBC this AM. They weren't impressive. I don't think they have much of a strategy for buying these cars except for adding another premium (read: expensive) offering to renters. That and some mention of an ill-defined relationship with Uber.

What I found amusing is that they are planning on requiring that cars be returned with at least an 80% charge or face a "refueling" fee. I traveled very frequently for work for years. I can't imagine, in my wildest dreams, waiting for an EV to charge before returning it. It was a challenge to take the time to stop and buy gasoline. I can't help but think this is about money, and that's it.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I rented a car in LA in mid-March and if you didn't return it full the refueling charge was $9.73/gallon. They already generate pretty good revenue on refueling. And I bet a lot of the time if the gauge shows full, or close to full, they don't even refuel the car.
 

TurboABA

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Oh yeah, I'm aware of how much they make of "regular" top ops.... but this new approach is guaranteed to make tons of revenue.... I just looked up the charging rate on the Polestar off your run of the mill house plug (which is most likely what the majority of renters would attempt to top it off of), and you'll end up needing another day's rental just to bring it up to that 80% charge... no one will even put up with that.... and by the time they realize it, they will just "eat" the fees.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I seriously doubt that Polestar renters would charge at a home. These cars aren't going to be inexpensive to rent, and I'm betting most renters will be business travelers. So they may be able to charge at a hotel. If not, I suspect only some would bother to find and create an account to charge the car at a charging station.
 

compu_85

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Springfield VA
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Charging an expensive recharging fee is crap. The car rental place should set up lots of chargers, and make that part of the convenience of rental. Just drop it back off...

-J
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Charging an expensive recharging fee is crap. The car rental place should set up lots of chargers, and make that part of the convenience of rental. Just drop it back off...
Agee. And most business rentals won't cover enough miles to use a full charge. They should just build it into the daily rate.
 

gulfcoastguy

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Or most EV renters would already be EV owners and have accounts already set up with Electrify America, Chargepoint, etc plus already have the PlugShare app to locate chargers.
 

Rob Mayercik

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NJ, U.S.A.
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I must admit, I like the look of that Polestar better than a Tesla (not that I'm interested in buying either right now, doesn't really fit my use case) - that big flat plastic wall where the grill ought to be on a Tesla just looks "wrong" to me - you'd have thought they'd have at least put a sticker on that to break up the expanse.

Guess I'm a bit old-fashioned - to me, unless it's a Corvair, a car is supposed to have something grille-like up front...
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I must admit, I like the look of that Polestar better than a Tesla (not that I'm interested in buying either right now, doesn't really fit my use case) - that big flat plastic wall where the grill ought to be on a Tesla just looks "wrong" to me - you'd have thought they'd have at least put a sticker on that to break up the expanse.

Guess I'm a bit old-fashioned - to me, unless it's a Corvair, a car is supposed to have something grille-like up front...
Not a Porsche fan, I take it. I think the rear engine Porsches are some of the best looking cars ever made. I like the looks of the Polestar 2 too. It may not have a super low drag coefficient, but probably decent enough.

EDIT: .29 CoD for the Polestar 2 vs. .23 for the Model 3. Not too bad.

Do we know what Hertz is planning to charge to recharge? It might not be all that awful? I assume they'd equip their facilities with at least a few DC fast chargers and a bunch of AC chargers.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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Or most EV renters would already be EV owners and have accounts already set up with Electrify America, Chargepoint, etc plus already have the PlugShare app to locate chargers.
Thought of this, but when I traveled a lot for work I always used a separate card for expenses so I wouldn't lose track. If I were renting an EV I'd want a separate account with the charging station.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Porsches have had radiators in front for over 20 years.
Yes, it's been a few years since GM was rolling Corvairs off of the assembly line too. The grille-free Porsches were arguably the best looking ones.
 

El Dobro

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On the rare occasion I use Electrify America, the app is to tell them which station I'm using, but I use a credit card to pay for the charge.
 

gulfcoastguy

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I tap the charger with my iPhone. The credit card info and account information is in the Apple Wallet. I don’t even open the EA app. Far quicker and more reliable.
On the rare occasion I use Electrify America, the app is to tell them which station I'm using, but I use a credit card to pay for the charge.
 

jhaytdi

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Utah
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None..yet
Realize I'm two years late to the party, but I only bought my TDI a couple of months ago. Personally, (que controversial opinion) I'm half betting this EV craze fades. Between the massive environmental impact these cars have, and the government pushing automakers to get them to market faster than is really practical, I think the majority of the public will snap back to ICE, but the hydrogen variety.

Oh, and what about when electricity rates skyrocket because of demand and greed. You all don't really think these energy companies are just going to give up making money, do you?

I bought my Golf with 185k miles on it, very much so I can ride the storm out for the next 500k miles until the market decides which direction things are going.
 

Daemon64

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Realize I'm two years late to the party, but I only bought my TDI a couple of months ago. Personally, (que controversial opinion) I'm half betting this EV craze fades. Between the massive environmental impact these cars have, and the government pushing automakers to get them to market faster than is really practical, I think the majority of the public will snap back to ICE, but the hydrogen variety.

Oh, and what about when electricity rates skyrocket because of demand and greed. You all don't really think these energy companies are just going to give up making money, do you?

I bought my Golf with 185k miles on it, very much so I can ride the storm out for the next 500k miles until the market decides which direction things are going.
"EV Craze" --- I'm sorry. This is where the market is going. Emissions and fuel economy standards will make Gas cars nearly impossible. Many manufacturers have already stated this current ICE gen will be their last ICE engine advancement. Newer gens will just use slightly rehashed versions. If you're buying a gas / diesel car. Get it now. As this is the best the technology will be from here on out it will likely be fairly stagnant.

Electricity rates will raise for sure. But gas / diesel will be even higher in the end. None of this will get cheaper only more expensive as time goes on. The in-efficiencies of gas engines cannot overcome the efficiencies of EV's. My Q5 Gas could go 160 miles on $25 worth of gas ---> My polestar 2 DC fast charging w/o a pass @$.32 / minute gets the same mileage for $7.20. ( And this car is not even as efficient as say a Tesla Polestar is about 3.2 miles per KwH ) If I choose the pass @ $.24/ minute for $4/mo.... is is $6.40 / wk for the same fillup driving 640 miles / mo, if you drive more its even cheaper. AC Charging is about 1/2 the price or around $4 to go 160 miles. My Electricity rate is .256 / kwh which is double the national average. If they TRIPLED the electricity rate, it would be on part w/ gas. But a 300% increase is HIGHLY unlikely. 3 - 5% / yr is though.

In my Q5 TDI over 12000 miles I averaged around 28 MPG total over everything tracked in fuelly. @ 3.50 / gal of diesel thats $20 to go 160 miles, @ over $5/gal the current: thats $28.57. If I take only my BEST highway mpg ever of 33.8 MPG @ $3.50 / gal --- Thats $16.57 to go 160 miles, or at the current diesel prices i put $5 but its over that for sure: $23.67 to go 160 miles.

So in summary for my less than ideal electric to not be more efficient than a gas or diesel vehicle in terms of $$ to operate not including maintenance the electricity price would need to double in my area 4x the national average at WORST case but likely close to 6 or 7x the national average. Super unlikely we will see $.60 - $.70 / KwH in the next 10 years and if we do: I predict solar adoption will be through the roof... pardon the pun.

As far as environmental. It does not take a crazy amount of miles driven even in many dirtier states for power production for the environmental impact to be far less than Gas & Diesel.

and as far as the battery--> Companies are coming online to deal with this problem:

and finally: On Emissions my car in my state will take 30k miles of driving to be less pollution than either of my other cars. or 2.5yrs
 
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prsa01

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Point source/local emissions are less, of course, but unless you are using 100% renewable (solar, wind,...) you can't change the fact that EVERY time energy is transformed there are conversion losses. The power plants themselves are not significantly more efficient then cars are. You then add line losses, charging/discharging losses, energy used to cool/heat the battery packs, hvac losses, and more.

Even if solar is used it is simply power that isn't going into the grid instead for other uses.

For cities where vehicle emissions are a problem electric vehicles certainly address that problem. For everyone else current tech is MAYBE marginally better than an ice before taking into account the mining and geopolitical issues associated with (current) battery tech. Obviously, all energy sources have their own geopolitical issues as can easily be seen in Eastern Europe.

Future battery tech and renewable energy will hopefully change the equation.
 

Abacus

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"EV Craze" --- I'm sorry. This is where the market is going. Emissions and fuel economy standards will make Gas cars nearly impossible. Many manufacturers have already stated this current ICE gen will be their last ICE engine advancement. Newer gens will just use slightly rehashed versions.
Exactly, it's forced compliance, just like trying to get a manual transmission car today. They were phased out by the auto manufacturers, not by consumers, even though we're told by the auto makers consumers want them. It's a farce and always has been, this is what we're being served, otherwise we'd have some of a great vehicles in Europe, produced by the very same manufacturers here.

The in-efficiencies of gas engines cannot overcome the efficiencies of EV's.
For short term driving, yes, but that's it.

The electrical grid cannot handle the traffic now (traffic in the sense of electricity delivery), never mind when people are forced to buy electric and remove their ICE engines due to someone else's ideals. Even California now has rolling blackouts. PV is the answer you say? Not for the whole country, and the power required is much more than most people think. It's all about the math.

EV's are cute, and maybe their time will come when they get the portable electrical storage figured out, but until then they are niche, no matter who tries to force it down our throats.
 

Nerdkiller

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Price, Utah
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98 Beetle TDI
If I were to buy an EV I'd want one from a "real" auto manufacturer. :). The ID Crozz might be worth a look when it comes out. I'd love the Golf-like ID3 but it's not coming here because Americans don't want hatchbacks.
I agree with you! There is not many choices of EV’s to buy. I will keep my TDI and get an affordable ev when you can actually buy one.
The power companies are already jacking up the electricity rates.
 

nwdiver

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Eunice
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Even California now has rolling blackouts. PV is the answer you say? Not for the whole country, and the power required is much more than most people think. It's all about the math.
California has blackouts because generators can have trouble meeting peak demand. The great thing about EVs is that you rarely need to charge them during those peak periods and those peak periods only last a few hours per YEAR. If you're charging outside ~4pm - 11pm there's plenty of electricity.

You're right. PV is about math. Have you done the math? Just 10 ~370w (41"x70") solar panels will produce >5,000kWh per year. EVs get >3 miles/kWh. So that's enough energy to drive >15,000 miles/yr from just 10 solar panels. Then there's wind. The amount of surplus wind energy wasted is growing faster than consumption from new EVs. So energy is not an issue.

And EVs can play a YUGE role in making electricity cheaper. It's hard to add more wind or solar to meet high demand periods when existing capacity is going unused during low demand periods. What do you suppose we can use that is able to add demand during low demand periods like ~2am when most vehicles are sitting in driveways or 10am when most vehicles are sitting at work? ;)
 
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Nerdkiller

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Price, Utah
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98 Beetle TDI
Yup...I actually picked up my 2014 TDI as a cheap, but fully under warranty vehicle with good mileage to get me through the next two years (or more?) for my Cybertruck order.

I'm like OP...I see ICE vehicles as dying out...I get excited to see all the new vehicles coming out but feel anything lacking an EV option to be..old...and seeing these enthusiast vehicles getting handed their asses by a relatively cheap EV vehicle made for the masses which is just in its infancy as far as technology goes...it's hard to come to any other conclusion than these gassers are done for.
You are exactly right, the sad thing is this ev/hybrid situation should have happened 40 years ago. We had great electric motors 40 years ago. Every locomotive you see is electric run by an onboard diesel generator with no batteries. The train companies did this to save money, not the environment. We should have had these vehicles 40 years ago at the minimum.
 
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