Who’s going to Tesla after their current TDI?

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
[FWIW filing]

I reserved an Aptera 600 Kwh version. Loaded, it will cost about $30k. I also invested $1000 in their stock. I think this is the way to get 'the rest of us' into electric cars. Promote and help the good ideas. If they succeed, it helps other ideas get off the ground too. I think they can succeed.

In five years, maybe a used Aptera is worth $15k and is affordable to pretty much anyone employed.

Also, on the topic of kit electrics, I see a HUGE potential to get in NOW. Now is the time to jump in and create a cottage industry. Tesla powertrains and batteries are getting affordable. There are a lot of delivery vans that can be converted cost effectively. Check out what Maxwell Vehicles is doing to the Ram Promaster: https://www.maxwellvehicles.com/

I see potential for them. An enterprising mechanic should want to create kits and make bank.
 
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pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW 02Q, 2003 Jetta Ute 02J swap, 2003 Golf 02J swap
Hey, that's unfair characterization... Bubba with his 12"lift powerstroke is not a farmer, and he doesn't pull anything, even though he has a 12"drop hitch on his second gen dodge Cummins. Bubba with the 12" lift is a redneck who thinks he's country, but if he was really country, he'd realize that none of that is practical for country living. The real country guys are the ones driving a diesel farm truck that may be tuned and deleted, but they're not rolling coal, they're also not lifted, and they actually work for a living, unlike bubba who has a big credit card and a lot of payments, and is on food stamps and welfare, because "he can't work" because of some disorder he has.

There is a bit of facetiousness in there, but it's very true to my area...
You'd be so so surprised. Some young punks out here actually have FARM PLATES for your aforementioned described trucks. And it cracks me up, because in our County, Cummins and Powerstrokes are the norm (those who drive the 6.5L or the Duramax are really looked down upon). One guy who used to work at the farm I'd buy my hay from wouldn't deliver in his own truck once. Why? He said he doesn't use it as his work truck that often (lifted, wheels that protrude outwards, and that retarded LED lighting, hooked up with SPEAKER wire and a rat's nest of wiring under the hood). And of course, it rolled coal just to move without a load.

Ha, this whole post made me laugh. My farm truck is indeed a deleted 7.3L, but the only time I don't have a trailer attached is when it goes to a shop. 100% of the time, it's used for agriculture purposes (though I need to replace yet another blown ICP o-ring to stop my oil leak).
The farmer may be rolling coal but that's only when trying to get that wagon moving. Might also be rolling coal becasue his current farm truck is held together with bailing twine and barbed wire. His bank won't loan him the $$$ for a new truck.
LOL. My county is very rural, and the primary industry out here is agriculture, but I don't see a lot of true redneck fixes out here. Okay, you see some, but not that bad with bailing wire. Granted, @alphaseinor 's Audi has tow pieces of zip tie to hold up the front bumper, and he's not even close to a redneck. My truck only rolls some coal if I put the appropriate tune, but even with a decent load on the trailer, it's not really pumping out smoke, even on acceleration, and I have upgraded injectors, upgraded HPOP and it's straight piped.

Boy, a lot of these city slickers have some funny notions about what America's farmers are driving, lol.
Well, I know your truck is just the newer version of my truck. But yes, concurred! Fun off topic segue though.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
My ex-sister in-law married a farmer in Washington State. He has a Work Truck and a Date Truck. Not exactly the same as the lifted truck example, but like car people, truck owners have multiple trucks for different purposes.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW 02Q, 2003 Jetta Ute 02J swap, 2003 Golf 02J swap
[FWIW filing]

Also, on the topic of kit electrics, I see a HUGE potential to get in NOW. Now is the time to jump in and create a cottage industry. Tesla powertrains and batteries are getting affordable. There are a lot of delivery vans that can be converted cost effectively. Check out what Maxwell Vehicles is doing to the Ram Promaster: https://www.maxwellvehicles.com/

I see potential for them. An enterprising mechanic should want to create kits and make bank.
Just to make sure I'm reading this right - the $34,990 - that's for the van fully configured, or that's in addition to the van? A quick google search says the van alone is like $30-40K, so I'm wondering how they're knocking the cost down to do an electric powertrain. The pictures also gave away the fact they're in Los Angeles, as I know where all those photos were taken.

Also, you can definitely see Aptera is an up and coming startup, because in one of their videos, you see a US General (Harbor Freight) tool case, instead of the usual Snap-On. Hey, at least they're spending their money wisely. Also makes me wonder how right-to-repair will affect EV companies going forward.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
[FWIW filing]

I reserved an Aptera 600 Kwh version. Loaded, it will cost about $30k. I also invested $1000 in their stock. I think this is the way to get 'the rest of us' into electric cars. Promote and help the good ideas. If they succeed, it helps other ideas get off the ground too. I think they can succeed.

In five years, maybe a used Aptera is worth $15k and is affordable to pretty much anyone employed.

Also, on the topic of kit electrics, I see a HUGE potential to get in NOW. Now is the time to jump in and create a cottage industry. Tesla powertrains and batteries are getting affordable. There are a lot of delivery vans that can be converted cost effectively. Check out what Maxwell Vehicles is doing to the Ram Promaster: https://www.maxwellvehicles.com/

I see potential for them. An enterprising mechanic should want to create kits and make bank.
Hey, congrats on the reservation! Those are neat looking vehicles. 600 kWh must be a typo though. Even 60 kWh seems like quite a lot for a vehicle that size. If it is 60 kWh, the range should be excellent. I bet that stock will do really well for you. I just picked up a couple thousand in CATL stock today(major EV battery manufacturer).
Jaguar has a plug and play EV conversion kit for some of the classic Jags if I'm not mistaken. I think such kits will take off as battery energy density goes up and costs come down.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Just to make sure I'm reading this right - the $34,990 - that's for the van fully configured, or that's in addition to the van? A quick google search says the van alone is like $30-40K, so I'm wondering how they're knocking the cost down to do an electric powertrain. The pictures also gave away the fact they're in Los Angeles, as I know where all those photos were taken.
It's for the conversion. You supply a runner. A used runner goes for around $16k. Then you sell the gas powertrain for around 7-8k depending on miles and conditions, or more if you part it out. They can help with all this if you want them to do it.

So you're looking at 35k+16k-8k = 43k.

But keep in mind if you use this for commercial purposes or routes, it pays off fast by fuel costs saved. I did an Excel model for my use case (food trucks), and it pays off late in year 5.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW 02Q, 2003 Jetta Ute 02J swap, 2003 Golf 02J swap
It's for the conversion. You supply a runner. A used runner goes for around $16k. Then you sell the gas powertrain for around 7-8k depending on miles and conditions, or more if you part it out. They can help with all this if you want them to do it.

So you're looking at 35k+16k-8k = 43k.

But keep in mind if you use this for commercial purposes or routes, it pays off fast by fuel costs saved. I did an Excel model for my use case (food trucks), and it pays off late in year 5.
I didn't realize that was with used vehicles. That's not too bad, given the intended use. The first thing that came to mind out here was UPS and FedEx Ground, and how both would be bad choices. For the record, UPS out here hasn't had a brown truck in about a year (they use a Penske yellow rental), and FedEx ground wavers between a FedEx lettered truck and something from Budget. Both would probably be about the same powertrain as one of those ProMasters (but FedEx Express uses diesel-powered Sprinters).

Pretty cool conversion, but with only 200 miles of range, that's only suited to the city. UPS going from their hub to my town and back alone is 60 miles, not counting all the stop and go deliveries. My FedEx Ground driver tells me that he sometimes has 130 stops in one day, and his one way trip to me from the hub is about 80 miles.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Ha, this whole post made me laugh. My farm truck is indeed a deleted 7.3L, but the only time I don't have a trailer attached is when it goes to a shop.


Well, I know your truck is just the newer version of my truck. But yes, concurred! Fun off topic segue though.
There isn't much to delete on our trucks, honestly. Just a muffler and valve thingy on mine for faster warmups. I guess I'd probably delete that valve if I were in Texas or someplace more temperate. Sounds like garbage when it kicks in.
 

Poor King

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Location
NY
TDI
'91 Jetta, '91 GTI, '04 Touareg
EV's have the platform to depreciate significantly based on their softwares and battery degradation. The best way about recycling them would be through their manufacturers. Then why not have incentives on lease options if they're so bent on making a global shift.

 

gulfcoastguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
MS Gulfcoast
TDI
TDI sold, Mazda 3 purchased
VW has already developed a battery recycling factory. As far as the rest steel is already one of the most recycled materials.
 

TurboABA

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
2010 Jetta 6spd MT, 2014 Touareg Execline
Has anyone in here owned\driven a VW for a number of years? :unsure:
What kind of "electrical" component experience have you had from VAG products?

....... what kind of confidence level does that give you when\if considering a VAG EV product?

Just gonna leave that right there...... :whistle:
 

Poor King

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Location
NY
TDI
'91 Jetta, '91 GTI, '04 Touareg
^ Lol exactly. I would rather lease a vehicle which has a high probability of goin' haywire.

Say you purchase an ID.4 or a Tessy for X amount and in 8-10 years that vehicle needs a new battery-- you cannot sell that vehicle and whatever incentive you are receiving right now will come out of your own wallet. Surely they would recycle the batteries at no extra cost to extract the minerals. But you will be left with a vehicle that will need a batt overhaul by 2029. How are EV's more green if you need two batts to compete with the longevity of one combusting engine.

Case in point my '04 Touareg is still going. Even with the ever-so-often alarming ding dongs of defective sensors or whatnot, the car still runs because the heart is ice ice baby.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Been driving VAG products since I've been driving, never been left stranded. My parents were driving them before that. A few push starts from a dead battery I remember (40 horse Bug.... easy to push start by yourself... my mom did it while she was pregnant!).
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I'd much rather own than lease a Tesla. Many of the used ones are selling for more than new right now because demand is so strong. Once the Berlin and Austin plants come online demand may not outstrip production by such a wide margin, but they still should continue to destroy ICEV in respect to depreciation.
 

Poor King

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Location
NY
TDI
'91 Jetta, '91 GTI, '04 Touareg
Just making the case that there's always a catch; or at the least speculating the prolonged effects of EV ownership. My stance remains firm on the purchase of USED ICE/EV vehicles as the definitive way to keep our C02 in check.

It's a well known fact that China owns 75-90% of the world's rare minerals. Minerals that are needed for such an EV initiative to be successful for the foreseeable future. Therefore visualizing an affordable EV market is a bit tough in regards to batt sales and replacements. Turn on the television and watch all the high tension between UK/US against the Chinese: it is for that specific reason.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The Chinese don't want to stop selling us their goods any more than we want to stop selling them ours. That's why capitalism works so well.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I heard a news story today that 75% of the containers going from the US to China are currently empty. Shipping costs and tariffs are too high to make it worthwhile for many producers to send product to China. But they need the containers because we're buying tons of their product.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That's not all that surprising. They ship quantity, and we ship quality.
 

TurboABA

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
2010 Jetta 6spd MT, 2014 Touareg Execline
LOL.... yeah, let's keep buying from them while not selling to them (there's only a couple of them, so no big loss)..... that should keep them from all that exponential growth and really teach them.....
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That's not all that surprising. They ship quantity, and we ship quality.
Actually the story said it's the reverse. We ship a lot of commodities. there (like farm and lumber products), and they ship high value goods here. Their container loads are valuable enough to blunt the 100% increase in shipping costs they've experienced this year. If you shipping soybeans or straw, not so much.
 

gulfcoastguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
MS Gulfcoast
TDI
TDI sold, Mazda 3 purchased
^ Lol exactly. I would rather lease a vehicle which has a high probability of goin' haywire.

Say you purchase an ID.4 or a Tessy for X amount and in 8-10 years that vehicle needs a new battery-- you cannot sell that vehicle and whatever incentive you are receiving right now will come out of your own wallet. Surely they would recycle the batteries at no extra cost to extract the minerals. But you will be left with a vehicle that will need a batt overhaul by 2029. How are EV's more green if you need two batts to compete with the longevity of one combusting engine.

Case in point my '04 Touareg is still going. Even with the ever-so-often alarming ding dongs of defective sensors or whatnot, the car still runs because the heart is ice ice baby.
The costs of EV batteries has been on a down ward trend . Kind of like the path flat screen TVs and computers took.
As to China owning the minerals Tesla has a patent on extracting minerals from geothermal energy wells. Most of the lithium is currently sourced from South America, and cobalt is from Africa. But battery chemistries change.
My 71 Super Beetle left me stranded 4 times: one partial rebuild, 1 full rebuild, one tank full of water, 1 broken throttle cable. I fixed the last 2 myself though. Oh and several voltage regulators, never did run that problem down.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Soybeans, corn, straw, and most commodities typically don't get shipped in shipping containers. And things like software don't need ships at all.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
LOL.... yeah, let's keep buying from them while not selling to them (there's only a couple of them, so no big loss)..... that should keep them from all that exponential growth and really teach them.....
China may be the competition, but they aren't the enemy. Last I checked it was the Russians putting bounties on our troops heads. China will be the dominant economy in a decade whether we like it or not.
 

Poor King

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Location
NY
TDI
'91 Jetta, '91 GTI, '04 Touareg
China may be the competition, but they aren't the enemy. Last I checked it was the Russians putting bounties on our troops heads. China will be the dominant economy in a decade whether we like it or not.
Whoa, now. I'd refrain from indicating China's moral compass until new episodes of south park airs. Preferably with a play on Elon's relationship with the country.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That's a beauty. Not sure if I'd rather have one of those or a converted 912.
 
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