Which NAVI to get?

JWaltersTDI

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Portland, Oregon
I am looking for VW NAVI units. I am about to recieve the FIS Cluster any day, Part # 1J5 920 946 C, in MPH and coded for Miles to empty. I have the sterring wheel controls and the Monsoon. My question is what version of NAVI to get? I understand both version D and G will both interface with the FIS cluster, but there is a question weather or not version D will interface with the steering wheel controls.. Any ideas? I have been to www.vwnavi.com, and the consensus is that no one is really for sure.
 

skicrave

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2004 Passat 1.8T 4Motion Wagon
As of right now, version G is the only safe bet for interfacing with BOTH the FIS and steering wheel controls (and you'll need a TMC module to do that).

There is some speculation that since version G was never offered in the A4 chassis, there has to be a way to interface a version D unit with FIS and steering wheel controls. Evidentally, it can be done making use of the older style multifunction wheel interface, but it will be more costly than simply purchasing the TMC module, and is probably harder to source.

Given the current difference in price between version D and version G on ebay, just get a G and be done with it.
 

tongsli

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there has to be a way to interface a version D unit with FIS and steering wheel controls. Evidentally, it can be done making use of the older style multifunction wheel interface, but it will be more costly than simply purchasing the TMC module, and is probably harder to source.
Where did you read this? Quite the opposite. The D-version is cheaper and easier to get the FIS and multifunction steering wheel working.

There is no TMC to buy, just 3 wires for the cluster, one from the Multifunction Steering wheel control module to the Navi.

That's it.

With an 05 Jetta, the G-unit is your only option. A D-unit will technically work but you won't get your steering wheel or cluster integrated.
 

skicrave

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Where did you read this? Quite the opposite. The D-version is cheaper and easier to get the FIS and multifunction steering wheel working.

There is no TMC to buy, just 3 wires for the cluster, one from the Multifunction Steering wheel control module to the Navi.

That's it.
Right, but that's assuming the install is being done on a single DIN vehicle. If you're installing in a '02.5 or later the install becomes much more expensive with a version D because the serial controller for the multifunction wheel is not present.

With an 05 Jetta, the G-unit is your only option. A D-unit will technically work but you won't get your steering wheel or cluster integrated.
Unless you run the three line data bus to the cluster and install the serial controller for the steering wheel, which collectively is probably more work, and more expensive than just purchasing the appropriate TMC box and G unit (like I mentioned in my first post).

Remember, MFD version G was never option in CAN Bus equiped A4s, but surely version D was from the factory, with both FIS and the multifunction steering wheel.
 

skicrave

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BTW, JWaltersTDI if you would like to check out my install, I'm in Portland as well.

Just let me know.

Jason
 

JWaltersTDI

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Location
Portland, Oregon
Thanks for the info, thats kind of what I have been getting from www.navi.com.. So let me get it straight, Version D was the only factory option on the A4 cars, but the G version with ththe TMI is the only one that interfaces well with both the FIS and the Steering wheel controls on a double din Monsoon car?

BTW Skicrave, ID LOVE to see the install on your car, I am really excited about making this mod, I should have the FIS cluster this week,, e-mail me here or at RChelis4fun@aol.com
 

JWaltersTDI

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This is still somewhat confusing. It does seem that some people have got the version D to work with both FIS and Stering wheel controls with a relay change.. TMC seems to be a bit of a waste in this country, But I will get whichever system that is available and ease of installation
 

tongsli

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Right, but that's assuming the install is being done on a single DIN vehicle. If you're installing in a '02.5 or later the install becomes much more expensive with a version D because the serial controller for the multifunction wheel is not present.
If you have a 2002.5 with no multifunction wheel, and don't plan to get one NOR integrate an FIS cluster to the Navi, then a D-unit will work just fine and will be cheaper than a G-unit. The D-unit needs some additional power wires and a connection to your dash lights.

Unless you run the three line data bus to the cluster and install the serial controller for the steering wheel, which collectively is probably more work, and more expensive than just purchasing the appropriate TMC box and G unit (like I mentioned in my first post).
3-line bus with a D-unit in a 2002.5(double din) does not work. It's been tried.

Remember, MFD version G was never option in CAN Bus equiped A4s, but surely version D was from the factory, with both FIS and the multifunction steering wheel.
Well, all A4 cars(MY 2000+) were equipped with Can Bus. And yes, only the Passat was offered with a G-unit.
 

tongsli

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This is still somewhat confusing. It does seem that some people have got the version D to work with both FIS and Stering wheel controls with a relay change.. TMC seems to be a bit of a waste in this country, But I will get whichever system that is available and ease of installation
The only way to integrate D-unit with FIS and Multifunction Steering wheel is to have had a Single Din Headunit from the start.

If you have a 2005, with multifunction steering wheel and would like to integrate an FIS cluster you MUST get a G-unit and a TMC box. No question about it. It's the only solution that will work.
 

Vorsprung

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Location
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Right, but that's assuming the install is being done on a single DIN vehicle. If you're installing in a '02.5 or later the install becomes much more expensive with a version D because the serial controller for the multifunction wheel is not present.
If you have a 2002.5 with no multifunction wheel, and don't plan to get one NOR integrate an FIS cluster to the Navi, then a D-unit will work just fine and will be cheaper than a G-unit. The D-unit needs some additional power wires and a connection to your dash lights.

Unless you run the three line data bus to the cluster and install the serial controller for the steering wheel, which collectively is probably more work, and more expensive than just purchasing the appropriate TMC box and G unit (like I mentioned in my first post).
3-line bus with a D-unit in a 2002.5(double din) does not work. It's been tried.

Remember, MFD version G was never option in CAN Bus equiped A4s, but surely version D was from the factory, with both FIS and the multifunction steering wheel.
Well, all A4 cars were equipped with Can Bus. And yes, only the Passat was offered with a G-unit.

Ok now im confused, according to my post on VWNavi, my immo 3 FIS cluster will work with a D unit by using the 3LB....

Here is the post
VW Navi Post about MFD D and Immo 3 clusters
 

tongsli

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Mishari already posted the answer:

Just to let every one know... MFD version G was NEVER available on any MK4 (any year)... All MK4s came with MFD version D from the factory... Thats mean, Immob3 support the 3LB method for FIS... People who upgrade from Single-Din to MFD version D have no problems with Immob3 clusters... People who upgrade from Double-Din to MFD version D faced couple problems making the full FIS to work using the 3LB... I think it's a setting with Vag-Com thing like Audi's...
No one that I know(with an oem double-din) has been able to get the D-unit communicate with the FIS.
 

skicrave

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Lito knows what he's talking about, so listen to what he says. With the exception of Dan and Eric, he probably knows the most about these cars of anyone else living in the US.
 

Vorsprung

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Thanks Lito,

Now, the question is.....can we gather enough research to get the D to work with Immo3 + Can + DD cars.

I kno that people with the G faced this problem but they found their answer in the TMC box with the A code....this is the kind of research we need to do in order to solve the problem for everyone wondering what ver. MFD to get.
 

tongsli

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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Believe me, Dan(Hillside), Eric, and Ramon(Occam's Razor) have tried.

Dan has tried all the Unit-D&Unit-G/2002.5 and newer/and older combinations. The D will NOT interface with the FIS cluster on a 2002 and newer vehicle, period.

According to Dan, VW stopped offering the Navi as a dealer add-on when they went with the Double-Din Radio. The double din adds an additional Can-bus for the radio. If you notice, the cluster wiring there are 4-can wires.

It is simply not possible for the D-unit Navi to communicate on a non-radio Can system. That's why the TMC is used. It bridges the gap between the Navi and the car's additional Can-Bus.
 

DrStink

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Providence RI
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2003 Jetta GL - Platinum Grey
Dan has tried all the Unit-D&Unit-G/2002.5 and newer/and older combinations. The D will NOT interface with the FIS cluster on a 2002 and newer vehicle, period.
Lemme ask a (simpler?) question. I have stock '03 GL - where do I start?
 

penclnck

Member
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May 9, 2001
Location
Knoxville, TN
OK, both versions D and G will work in any given VW in terms of being a Navi in your dash.

If the VW came with double DIN, and you don't have steering wheel controls, and you won't ever be upgrading your instrument cluster to a full pixel (FIS), then you can use the Navi D without any problem.

The Navi G is a must if you are going from a double DIN and you do have steering wheel controls and/or you will be putting in the FIS cluster.

Rule of thumb works out like this:

double DIN = best to get Navi "G"
single DIN = best to get Navi "D"
 

JWaltersTDI

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Location
Portland, Oregon
Thanks for all the help guys
I guess that pretty much settles on version "G". I just got my FIS cluster yesterday. I ordered all the connectors, temp sensor, plug, clip and the wiper stalk today from IMPEX, they seem to be the only ones that have it all and its still way cheaper than the stealership. All I have is the sharware version of VAG-COM and I am sure it wont work to code the cluster. I have an older iso-optical cable so I have to use the somewhat older version 311 of VAG-COM.. Does anyone know if the older version will work OK for this application?
 

tongsli

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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: Which NAVI to get? [Re: JWaltersTDI]
#933380 - Mon Jan 31 2005 11:58 PM (69.138.247.104) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



You need a G and a TMC to make the steering wheel controls to work

--------------------
2004 Passat GLS TDI Northern Green
1996 Passat TDI Pearl Red
Tomo posted the answer a few days ago.
 

BerKath

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Location
Norway
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2000 VW Bora Variant 1,9 TDI 4motion Highline
tongsli said:
Mishari already posted the answer:



No one that I know(with an oem double-din) has been able to get the D-unit communicate with the FIS.
I have a 2000 Bora (Jetta) Variant TDI 4 motion with double din OEM MCD and full FIS installed. I just plugged in an MFD version D and the FIS functioned perfectly right away via the 3LB wires. I also have a TCM functioning via the MFDs can-l and can-h.

I just bought an multifunction steering wheel (1JO 419 091 AH E74). I did not know, but the production year was month 8 in 2000. Excactly the same month and year that my car was made.

I now wonder what the cheapest and easiest way to fit this wheel in my car is? Through the can or the 3LB wires? I also need an airbag for this wheel. What is the part number for that?

Can anybody help me out ?
 

BerKath

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2000 VW Bora Variant 1,9 TDI 4motion Highline
BerKath said:
I have a 2000 Bora (Jetta) Variant TDI 4 motion with double din OEM MCD and full FIS installed. I just plugged in an MFD version D and the FIS functioned perfectly right away via the 3LB wires. I also have a TCM functioning via the MFDs can-l and can-h.

I just bought an multifunction steering wheel (1JO 419 091 AH E74). I did not know, but the production year was month 8 in 2000. Excactly the same month and year that my car was made.

I now wonder what the cheapest and easiest way to fit this wheel in my car is? Through the can or the 3LB wires? I also need an airbag for this wheel. What is the part number for that?

Can anybody help me out ?
I have just studied my new steering wheel (cruise & audio). I noticed that there are 3 wires from the wheels buttons to the canceling ring. I asume that this means the steering wheel are using 3LB wires instead of CAN (2 wires as shown in Litos pictures). So far so good I think since my car uses 3LB.

I now wonder if the signal switch I I have to bye must be specially made for the MF steering wheel? Or is it the standart signal stalk for every VW I need ? Lito, can you answere that ?

I also now ghave bought the module 452 (Hardware 5 and Software 3). Is this the right one or is this one for the can bus ? Lito I only want answers from you now. I feel I'm not far from ending this project.
 

tongsli

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Do you have the wiring diagrams? If not you need to get them. That will answer all your questions.
 

Occams_Razor

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Jetta Wagon, 2003, Reflex Silver
JWaltersTDI said:
Thanks for all the help guys
I guess that pretty much settles on version "G". I just got my FIS cluster yesterday. I ordered all the connectors, temp sensor, plug, clip and the wiper stalk today from IMPEX, they seem to be the only ones that have it all and its still way cheaper than the stealership. All I have is the sharware version of VAG-COM and I am sure it wont work to code the cluster. I have an older iso-optical cable so I have to use the somewhat older version 311 of VAG-COM.. Does anyone know if the older version will work OK for this application?
VAGCOM 311 may or may not work, (I am betting it won't). There is an issue with the older versions that was fixed in the 4XX versions of VagCom where it would time out or never give you the option to save.

At one point I had 5 different versions of VagCom on my laptop AND a HexCom and it still wouldn't work to code the cluster! :( :mad:

It was more than just a little bit painful to get the high pixel cluster to work and it took quite a bit of fiddling and troubleshooting between Lito, Jeff, Jerry and myself before we finally got to a configuration that "took".

The newer versions of VagCom supposedly have fixed this, (or at least have made it less painful). :p

As for the question as to what NAVI to get. As a general rule 2002.5 with DD, Multifunction steering wheel and a high pixel cluster is only going to work with a "G" and a TMC "A" box.

A "D" cannot be forced to work without a lot of jury-rigging and pain, (ask me how I know :( ).

BTW Flashing a "D" to a "G" firmware usually doesn't work and can leave you with a very expensive paperweight. :eek:

Do yourself a favor and get a "G" with a TMC and the Pencilneck wiring adapter for the monsoon adapter plug if you have a 2002.5 or above and want the FIS and steering wheel controls to work. You will also need an antenna adapter or another one of the fine products from Pencilneck to plug your "G" euro antenna socket into the "modern" antenna plug in the car.
 

pheller

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Occams_Razor said:
BTW Flashing a "D" to a "G" firmware usually doesn't work and can leave you with a very expensive paperweight. :eek:
Actually, Mishari has had a good bit of luck going back and fourth between D and G firmware on his original version D MFD.

However, a failed flash attempt that has rendered a Navi a paper weight does not mean that Navi has given it's last direction.

It is possible to reflash the Navi on-board flash via serial inputs and bootstrap loader.

This was how mine was repaired about 1.5 years ago, for about € 150.

If anyone has one they need re-flashed, PM me and I'll give you the vendor's contact information.

--phil
 

Occams_Razor

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It is possible to reflash the Navi on-board flash via serial inputs and bootstrap loader.
Very true but it usually requires a trip back to the fatherland. For a unit that probably just came from the fatherland it probably is not a good idea to tempt fate twice.

Like I said before. Do yourself a favor and get the right unit from the get go.
 
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