Which biodiesel suppliers use WASTE Veg Oil in their process?

ccaissie

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Oct 24, 2018
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Maine
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2002 Jetta TDI, 99.5 GL Gasser, 1989 jetta diesel n.a.
I use Maine Standard Biofuels B99.9 as it is made from recycled WVO, and is ASTM spec fuel.


The environmental impact/costs of using Palm oil or Jatropha, or any raw oil suggest that it's not a real win for the Climate Crisis Issue, and it's far better if we can use recycled oil as the feedstock.

Of all the companies listed, does anyone know which ones are using WVO as their feedstock?

I plan a X country trip to Washington State in June 2022 (Climb Rainier) and would like to run my 2002 Jetta on WVO-based Spec B99 Biodiesel. I expect to have jugs in the trunk, and will have about 1000 mile range between fillups.

Anyone know the economics of adding a trailer to haul a barrel of fuel on a trip? Reduction of mpg? Hard work trying to be a purist...
 

philngrayce

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Connecticut
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'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
I can’t answer your first question. As for the trailer, I suspect that would only make sense if you need the trailer anyway for your gear. Towing any trailer really hurts you mileage, and is always a bit of a nuisance. If it hurts your efficiency - makes you burn more fuel - I suspect you are hurting your cause more than helping it.

If you don’t need the trunk (Can you fit all your equipment in the back seat?) you should be able to carry 40 gallons of fuel, maybe more. That plus the fuel tank could get you almost across the country.

Another option would be one of the old Greasecar fuel tanks under the trunk. That would mean you would lose your spare tire, but you would have a pretty extraordinary range. A 12 volt compressor, a can of flat fix and a tubeless tire repair kit might cover most emergencies.
 

Lug_Nut

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Newport Biodiesel (Newport RI, retailed through TH Malloy in Cumberland RI) is one of a handful of producers of ASTM biodiesel from waste cooking oil.
In 2010 I undertook a trip (Portland, ME to Portland OR. and back) using only public access retail biodiesel. I, however, specifically chose to NOT use supplemental containers. Even in the A3 Cabrio I was able to get nearly 700 miles per filling, enough range to skip from retailer to retailer back then. Many of those retailers are no longer selling, and even then few were selling bio from WVO.
A trailer will hurt mileage more than you might think. My small (less than 300 lb) motorcycle camper trailer dropped my A5 Jetta wagon's mileage to high 30's from the average of mid 40's.
 
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Lightflyer1

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Cheapest way I can see is a Harbor freight small trailer and fuel cans.



Put in a floor and sides and 8 to 16 cans on the trailer. 12 cans and the car tank would give you 5 fills worth. At 600 miles a tank you have 3k miles capacity. Tarped or covered properly it shouldn't be too bad as it will be pretty small.

Finding used stuff could reduce the cost too.
 

ccaissie

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Oct 24, 2018
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Maine
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2002 Jetta TDI, 99.5 GL Gasser, 1989 jetta diesel n.a.
Thanks for the replies. Supporting biodiesel use is a plus, so buying ANY biodiesel is a good thing.

If a trailer is going to make a significant dent in fuel mileage, then that cancels the advantage...
I don't have a hitch on the Jetta, so omitting the trailer is one less thing to do...

Keeping speed down to the speed limit or less is a plus. All the other ideas...tire inflation, cruise control on the flats, keeping off the throttle on hills, all that is crucial.

On a biodiesel map, looks like plenty of fueling places, but ZERO in MT, ID, WY,NV. Guess why?
 

Ragdude

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Phx
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2015 VW Golf SEL TDi
Thanks for the replies. Supporting biodiesel use is a plus, so buying ANY biodiesel is a good thing.

If a trailer is going to make a significant dent in fuel mileage, then that cancels the advantage...
I don't have a hitch on the Jetta, so omitting the trailer is one less thing to do...

Keeping speed down to the speed limit or less is a plus. All the other ideas...tire inflation, cruise control on the flats, keeping off the throttle on hills, all that is crucial.

On a biodiesel map, looks like plenty of fueling places, but ZERO in MT, ID, WY,NV. Guess why?
Just curious, why are you insisting on only burning bio? Don't get me wrong, I am a huge promoter of it, but...
If you're spending the entire trip figuring out ways to do every aspect on the cheap, its not going to be very enjoyable, It's cheaper to just stay home. Also what bio are you trying to avoid? wvo is what I used to use when I made my own, but any bio is using less crude.
Using cruise control even in hilly conditions will likely help your milage, and will keep others from getting pissed at you.
 

ccaissie

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Any action to not burn fossil fuels is a plus. I do bother to make that effort, don't you?
I won't spend the entire trip trying to do this on the cheap. I expect biofuels to cost more, don't you?
Maybe my little effort doesn't add up to much, but someone has to push past resistance and show that it can be, and should be done.

The carbon footprint of using raw oils for biodiesel is high...almost to the point that it is no better than Dino fuel. Using land that could grow food, chemical petro based fertilizers, commercial agricultural practices with its toxic chemical and petro use....

I worked as a design engineer for a company that manufactured mixers.....all kinds, Nuclear Medicine, Human Genome Project, Shell, Exxon, and The Grays Harbor Biodiesel project in Washington State...Largest Biodiesel plant on Earth. Pulled the plug now because the environmental cost of importing Asian Palm oil made it worse than petro diesel...deforestation, pollution, transport.

So, Biodiesel made from recycled WVO is extremely carbon/climate friendly. As they say here in Maine, "put your money where your mouth is". I made my own fuel for my 300SD's, but now trade my design and fabrication skills for WVO based B99.

I drive smarter than a cruise control. The folks who compete for mileage records do not use cruise control. Imagine flooring it to get up a hill at 70 when 55 would do? "Come around, brother come around."
 

Ragdude

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Any action to not burn fossil fuels is a plus. I do bother to make that effort, don't you?
I won't spend the entire trip trying to do this on the cheap. I expect biofuels to cost more, don't you?
Maybe my little effort doesn't add up to much, but someone has to push past resistance and show that it can be, and should be done.

The carbon footprint of using raw oils for biodiesel is high...almost to the point that it is no better than Dino fuel. Using land that could grow food, chemical petro based fertilizers, commercial agricultural practices with its toxic chemical and petro use....

I worked as a design engineer for a company that manufactured mixers.....all kinds, Nuclear Medicine, Human Genome Project, Shell, Exxon, and The Grays Harbor Biodiesel project in Washington State...Largest Biodiesel plant on Earth. Pulled the plug now because the environmental cost of importing Asian Palm oil made it worse than petro diesel...deforestation, pollution, transport.

So, Biodiesel made from recycled WVO is extremely carbon/climate friendly. As they say here in Maine, "put your money where your mouth is". I made my own fuel for my 300SD's, but now trade my design and fabrication skills for WVO based B99.

I drive smarter than a cruise control. The folks who compete for mileage records do not use cruise control. Imagine flooring it to get up a hill at 70 when 55 would do? "Come around, brother come around."
Just asking
 

Lightflyer1

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We used to have quite a few stations that carried B100. None continue to exist to my knowledge. I made my own back when I owned a 2003 Beetle. Our cafeteria saved me oil and I processed it in my 5 gallon setup. Easy to do and took care of my daily needs. Not possible with the newer cars anyway. There is a dwindling supply of vehicles that will be able to use it now anyways. Most of the stuff made today goes into blends with diesel anyway.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Lug_Nut used to say that running bio costs 10% more and you get 10% less energy. That was years ago, don't know how the numbers play out now, but I bet, if anything, it's more expensive these days.

I've always believed that you put your fuel system at risk (the big one being IP leaks) when you switch between dino and bio diesel. Pick one and stick with it. One middle ground you might consider is running 20% or more bio for the trip. You could carry a couple 5 gallon containers of bio to mix when you fill. I did that for several years.
 

ccaissie

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2002 Jetta TDI, 99.5 GL Gasser, 1989 jetta diesel n.a.
The many issues with bio are pretty well known. Viton, a Fluorocarbon polymer, is the suitable seal material to use, and modern pumps use that or other high level rubbers. Older rubbers do soften or even melt with bio. In the mixer business we had to seal against the worst chemicals, so I've known a bit about polymer seals on rotating shafts in hot acid and other nasty stuff.

I was told that petrodiesel fuel helped keep the sulfur content in rubber at its proper structural integrity. When sulfur was reduced, then the sulfur compounds in the rubber 'migrated out" and the rubber deteriorated. Bio also does not contain sulfur and the same deterioration occurs.

I ran 1979-85 300SD's and a BMW 524td for years with home made bio and never experienced pump issues or leakage anywhere. 80,000 miles +
At Maine Biofuels, their trucks for collection and delivery all run b99. Oakhurst Dairy and Hannaford Foods all run their fuel, as well as Casco Bay Ferry system.

Modern diesels are very closely tuned to the fuel qualities and they are not calibrated for bio's odd characteristics of density and high cetane rating.
The computerized systems could be tuned to bio, but duh, the world runs on petro.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Your terminology is not quite right. Aromatics in fuel prevent seals from shrinking, high sulfur diesel and Bio both have aromatics present. However, when sulfur is removed from dino diesel, aromatics are also removed. Although that typically isn't a problem, we may see more IPs leaking now than we would if we used high sulfur diesel.

If you start using bio the aromatics keep seals tight. But if you switch back to ULSD, the aromatics will migrate out of the seals, causing them to shrink, and, perhaps, leak.

And none of the vehicles you mention were assembled with all Viton pump seals. The newest vehicle you mention is 20 years old. Although people talk about it, I've not seen a seal kit for an ALH pump that has all Viton seals.
 

nwdiver

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So, Biodiesel made from recycled WVO is extremely carbon/climate friendly. As they say here in Maine, "put your money where your mouth is".
Is any of it really wasted anymore though? At least around here WVO is so valuable that all of it gets collected and processed. That's what kind of pushed me away from biodiesel. Taking a gallon of WVO for myself just meant someone else was burning a gallon of petrol-diesel so in the end it wasn't actually accomplishing anything... It was a different story 20+ years ago when a lot of it actually was just disposed of.
 

ccaissie

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My supplier, Maine Standard Biofuels, does a lot of grease collecting/transporting/selling throughout New England...It's a commodity...yellow grease...used in many feedstocks..including animal feed.
They also collect Brown grease from traps in Portland Maine area. That goes into the biodiesel feed at the plant I think that's a unique use waste product.

Re: viton seals...ok, probably true. What I don't know about aromatics in fuel and seal chemistry could fill a book. I ran whatever I needed at the time, from 100% Dino diesel to 100% BME. Cars rotted out from the road salt here in Maine.
 

Lug_Nut

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On a biodiesel map, looks like plenty of fueling places, but ZERO in MT, ID, WY, NV.
That was an issue for me in 2010, as well. B99 in Salt Lake City, then nothing (within my self imposed range limits) until Portland. I was able to just make it from SLC to Minden, NV (B99), then up to Portland B100. Those two sides of a right triangle was just within range, but the hypotenuse direct route was out for being just too far.

Regarding switching back and forth: I haven't yet seen issues with summer B100 and winter ULSD in my one remaining diesel, my 1988 Bolens (see sig.). This past summer I had the original 1988 solenoid operated jitter-bug lift pump die. I change the fuel filter maybe every two years (not much fuel, but long stagnant times). I'm pretty sure that this wasn't built in 1988 envisioning bio from WVO. The three pot IDI pump is still unopened since assembly and gets dusty and coated with grass clippings.

The issue with biodiesel is that it softens natural rubber and similar compounds, one reason it is used as a relatively safe degreaser. It's not aromatics that is an issue with biodiesel. My TDI (1Z, AHU, ALH, BHW, BEW) didn't have issues with seal leaking.

Dyno pull results with one of my B4s showed that the different different burn rate of B100 versus petrodiesel (pre-ULSD) results in a shift at which the peak power is achieved. Bio diesel had more (read that again -> MORE <-) torque / power at lower RPM than the petrodiesel produced at that same RPM. How low? around 2,000 or so. How fast is your engine spinning at 60 in 5th anyway?
By about 2500 the petro made up the difference, and had a higher peak power (at about 500 higher rpm than the biodiesel's peak power), so for drag racing, yeah, petro. For daily use give me more power at the daily operating range any day.
The link below leads to the data I cite.

I was saddened when the availability of high percent bio was reduced by the blending into B2 and B20, but the 20 gallons I'd have used myself have the same reduction effect when used by 5 others using 20 gallons each of B20, or 50 others using 20 gallons each of B2.
 
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ccaissie

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Thanks LugNut for the report. Interesting that Bio looks better for low end torque. On the "I was talking with a buddy" quote...yes that's true. Some people judge things along familiar lines. Acceleration performance suffers. Mpg suffers. Humanity may have a better future...YMMV
 

TDIMeister

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Use a hitch-mounted cargo carrier and devise a kind of long-tail aerodynamic back cover or simply a spoiler that extends beyond the trunk.
 

Nevada_TDI

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I live 20 minutes away from what used to be the Bently, Minden, NV., fuel stop selling Bio 2, Bio 5, Bio 20, and Bio 99. They are since closed to retail sales. I used to make the drive to "put it to the man" whenever possible. I will say from prior experience Bio-D cleans and removes greases better from parts, as good if not better than the store bought stuff. It also works as a paint remover in some applications. There is a petrol depot in Sparks some 40 minutes away that sells Bio-D, but only to approved businesses. I did ask for an application, and then never sent it in... I guess I could fill 4 or 5, 5 gallon fuel cans, and at that point mix my own Bio-D to whatever % I want to run.
 
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nicklockard

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Well you only need about 60 gallons total to make the whole trip. What is the tank? 14.5? So just store twelve 5 gallon cubies behind the driver's area in the back seat (keep the Cg low if you can), and put your luggage in the front passenger's seat, trunk, or both.

Okay, crazy talk aside, you should be able to easily fit five 5 gallon cubies back there, giving a range of about 1650 miles. You don't need no stinkin trailer.
 
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