Where do I start... What is the next step?

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Sorry this is going to be kind of long...

OK, so last Friday I acquired a FREE 2003 MK4 Jetta TDI 5psd with 130k Miles no strings attached. Yes Free... Problem is the previous owner admittedly told me he drives cars into the ground and then gets new ones... I planned and hoped worse case I would have a parts car for my 2005.5 Mk5 Jetta TDI then sell any unneeded things via Craigslist over time.

He informed me that he didn't change the oil for hmmm maybe 25-30 THOUSAND miles... and that the oil had gotten low. I do not know if the car ever over heated...He also informed me that it was burning oil and smoking.

But... the car was mine if I got it home. I tried to jump it with my other TDI to no avail I then took the battery out of the Mk5 and put it into the Mk4 and it started right up... No big plumes of smoke and it even sounded pretty good for a diesel considering... I bought a Battery and get it started again without incident... I was having issue driving it cause it had a flat... I got it towed to my house.

Long story short lugs got drilled and the flat is now fixed.

So Finally I am able to sort out the issues with the car... At the shop they notice it was 2qts low and top it off... fine.

I start it to bring it home and it is now smoking like a chimney! So it is blowing smoke so what... then I notice that the car feels WAY under powered and only revving to 2k...

So... I need some ideas as what and or where to look/fix in order for me to get this thing sorted...

Here are my thoughts I am hoping the rings are not fried and the burnt oil is coming from the EGR and/or CCV like there is too much oil in the thing and it is being dumped into the intake... I plan to change the fuel filter chances are it has not been changed in ever... then if that does nothing see about changing the fuel pump to see if the car revs normally under throttle... with those things replaced...

This is where I am stuck. What should the next step be after that? This is where I need direction from those who have been through and seen the same issues before...
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Here's the order I would do things:
1) Scan for codes
2) Check the turbo for play, how much oil is there in the IC?
3) Check the camshaft
4) do a compression check

it would also help if you could find out how quickly it was burning oil.

Sounds to me like the guy isn't very bright, he could save thousands of dollars just by doing an oil change every once in a while, but hey...bonus for you. This is a good deal for you even if you can't get it fixed, lots of parts to sell off (let me know if you go this route and have black leather interior :))


EDIT:
also, your 2005 is a very different engine design as well as a different body design, you will not have very many parts in the 2003 that can swap to the 2005

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention the TB, good point growler!
 
Last edited:

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
remove intake & clean.

get a vcds and see if its making boost.

replace the timing belt system. its 30k overdue. PO sounds like someone who didnt care to do it at 100k when it was needed.

being in Baltimore, get ahold of Oliver (TDIRacing) Wegener. he will be a great point of contact.

good luck, enjoy your (not so) free car. :)
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Make super sure that the intercooler is not loading with oil. If it is, it can cause a runaway that will trash the engine. Intercooler is in front of passenger front tire. Pull off lowest hose. If a few drips of oil, normal. If it dumps oil, probably bad turbo.
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Here's the order I would do things:
1) Scan for codes
2) Check the turbo for play, how much oil is there in the IC?
3) Check the camshaft
4) do a compression check

it would also help if you could find out how quickly it was burning oil.

Sounds to me like the guy isn't very bright, he could save thousands of dollars just by doing an oil change every once in a while, but hey...bonus for you. This is a good deal for you even if you can't get it fixed, lots of parts to sell off (let me know if you go this route and have black leather interior :))


EDIT:
also, your 2005 is a very different engine design as well as a different body design, you will not have very many parts in the 2003 that can swap to the 2005

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention the TB, good point growler!
I know that the Mk4 and Mk5 are different but for free and if I can get it running for less than a grand... Well worth the headache!

Oh BTW... yes black leather interior!
 

Rxfire

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Location
Dripperley-Blanco Triangle, TX
TDI
2 each 03 5 speed Jetta wagons, 1 NA Isuzu P'up (a keeper)
Loss of power could be turbo/clogged intake, but I'm betting on the fuel filter. I bought one with 113k and original fuel filter, and my friend's beetle had 150k and original fuel filter. Air filter likely needed too

Losing oil could be several "simple" issues (as well as more complex)...

Put car on ramps or jack stands and crawl under, remove the plastic belly cover and side skirts (you will need torx "screwdriver" drive bits -- unless those plastic skirts and cover are already gone, seems likely with the previous owner's admitted rep)

Look for oil leak toward rear of engine near firewall area--turbo oil line tightened? Just snug it up if not

Look at front side of engine
Plastic dipstick tube cracked at base? just buy a new one and replace

Check out oil pan and see if the previous owner hit a rock/curb/log/ice chunk. etc and punched hol/craked/broke seal and you have a leak there? Get new oil pan

Look for other leaks of oil

The injector pump is a two-stage pump on these, so it is your only fuel pump, unlike 2004 and later VW diesels with an additional pump in the tank. Be sure to fill fuel filter before cranking (usually the fuel line to tank is hooked up to the filter and suction applied to other side of filter to fill filter before hooking line from injector pump to (the now full) filter

Then...if ya get it running and any CEL/codes fixed...

Timing belt and associated stuff IMMEDIATELY (no sense in doing this if you are going to part it out though)

metal belly plate (dieselgeek panzer plate, evo, etc)

flush brake fluid

ETC
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
remove intake & clean.

get a vcds and see if its making boost.

replace the timing belt system. its 30k overdue. PO sounds like someone who didnt care to do it at 100k when it was needed.

being in Baltimore, get ahold of Oliver (TDIRacing) Wegener. he will be a great point of contact.

good luck, enjoy your (not so) free car. :)
Thanks... I have been looking at the Intake removal instructions this morning... as well as the timing belt removal process...

I did plan to check that to see what it looked like by removing the top TB cover...

I know my Free (No so) Free car has already cost me a few hundred bucks in the battery, towing and the lug/wheel lock removal... and I haven't even STARTED sorting out the engine issues!
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Loss of power could be turbo/clogged intake, but I'm betting on the fuel filter. I bought one with 113k and original fuel filter, and my friend's beetle had 150k and original fuel filter. Air filter likely needed too

Losing oil could be several "simple" issues (as well as more complex)...

Put car on ramps or jack stands and crawl under, remove the plastic belly cover and side skirts (you will need torx "screwdriver" drive bits -- unless those plastic skirts and cover are already gone, seems likely with the previous owner's admitted rep)

Look for oil leak toward rear of engine near firewall area--turbo oil line tightened? Just snug it up if not

Look at front side of engine
Plastic dipstick tube cracked at base? just buy a new one and replace

Check out oil pan and see if the previous owner hit a rock/curb/log/ice chunk. etc and punched hol/craked/broke seal and you have a leak there? Get new oil pan

Look for other leaks of oil

The injector pump is a two-stage pump on these, so it is your only fuel pump, unlike 2004 and later VW diesels with an additional pump in the tank. Be sure to fill fuel filter before cranking (usually the fuel line to tank is hooked up to the filter and suction applied to other side of filter to fill filter before hooking line from injector pump to (the now full) filter

Then...if ya get it running and any CEL/codes fixed...

Timing belt and associated stuff IMMEDIATELY (no sense in doing this if you are going to part it out though)

metal belly plate (dieselgeek panzer plate, evo, etc)

flush brake fluid

ETC
Thanks for the response... I will take it all under advisement. I'll stop at a stealership on the way home so I can get a fuel filter right now and change it if I have time tonight and see if there is any change...
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I have a co-worker with the Vag-Com so I hope to have that by the weekend... But Shouldn't I see a CEL or the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree?

Lastly could the car be stuck in Limp-Mode if so... How do I get it out of limp-mode?
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
limp mode usually resets every time the key is cycled. if its ALWAYS got no power there are other issues.
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Darn...

Hey Growler... Don't you want to take a Road Trip to Baltimore?

I have Tools and Beer... In that Order!
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
I would need to bring my tools and get Cash. unfortuneately, I am not a drinking man..

wife & 4 kids would kill me if I worked for beer... :p
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I'd pay you as well... Beer is just added incentive!

I'll see what I find this weekend and I'll report back!
 

ScorpionBoy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Location
CO
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
make sure all of your vac lines are still hooked up, especially the one for the turbo solenoid thingy. vn17 or whatever it is.
is your turbo working?
might do a compression test before you spend too much more money.
 

PeterV

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Location
So, NH.
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 sp.
Dash there are gurus in Balto.. Oilver is one TDIracing....
 

PeterV

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Location
So, NH.
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 sp.
You could post in the east coast threads for assistance too.
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
If it gets to that point... I have a guy that used to tune VWs that I will have looking over my shoulder as I check things out this weekend...

Next step will be to contact Oliver if I get in over my head.
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Ok... So I finally found the time this past weekend to change the Fuel Filter.

It was a PITA getting the old one off it seamed it was the original filter or one that hadn't been changed in 50k plus miles.

So I changed it and the car did rev up to about 3 - 3.5k I do think I could hear the turbo slightly. I poured a can of Diesel Purge into the filter before I replaced the filter as well... It is still smoking like a chimney, but it did have a little bit more power.

I didn't notice any cracked Vac lines or any other loose connections while I was under the hood. I also removed and checked the glow plugs and they seamed fine...

Next step in the coming weeks try and do a compression test? Seeing as I have never done a compression test any advice or know how anyone could throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,

DASH
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Darn... Forgot to mention that I peaked in the Timing belt cover and the belt looked OK... If I have to tear the engine apart I would do the timing belt at the same time...
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I'm going to assume the previous owner hasn't changed the timing belt, your timing belt is 30k overdue.

Even if we disregard that fact that belt stretch or a broken tooth could cause timing retardation and smoke, at any point while you are trying to solve the problem the belt could break and you could have a lot more problems.

If the belt has not been changed then my recommendation would be that you get your belt changed first and then start troubleshooting other issues.
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Sorry... I can't in any good contentious agree.

Granted... even though the timing belt is overdue. There is no way I want to invest 400 bucks on a kit and tools and the time needed to install it or what ever the cost it would take to pay someone to perform the TB job... in a car that isn't running correctly. Chances are the TB is with-in spec. I am a firm believer of if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Now while I appreciate your help, and by no means, mean any dis-respect as "I" am the one seeking advice and direction for a solution to my problem. I am going to have to dis-agree with the advice to change the TB first... then figure out what the other issues in the engine are...
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
ok, in that case I recommend you get vag-com and check the timing.

Also, I am sure given your disagreement that you have researched the cost of a broken belt.

Also, how can you say "if it aint broke don't fix it" if you don't know if the timing is out of spec or if there are damaged teeth on the belt?
 

DASH

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI / 2012 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I have access to a vag-com from a co-worker and I am smart enough to know that it will be a great asset to my investigation and troubleshooting.

I have seen from around here what can happen if the timing belt snaps...

This brings me back to my first point... I am aware I can check the timing via the VAG-COM... again when I peaked in the TB cover I wasn't alarmed at what I saw. The good thing about this the car seems to be driven my an adult who admittedly didn't to the simple stuff but I didn't see any belt shards or excessive belt dust. I know that doesn't mean it can't go on me... but I think it is lower priority at this point.
 
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