Wheel came off

[dieselt]

Driving the back roads of Maine is a little rough this time of year, with pot holes and frost heaves.
Yesterdy I had the left front wheel come off at about 30 mph. Hitting the brakes forced the vehicle hard right. The 4 foot snow bank pushed the car back to the left, and once I got off the brakes the car would steer again.
Some damge to the fender; I had to pry bar and hammer it back into place to get the drivers door to open.
Chassed the threads in the rotor with a 14mm/150 tap and relaced all the lug bolts.
I retorqued all the other lug bolts to 85 ft ilbs, finding two loose.
Anyone else ever have lug bolts come loose on steel wheels?

 

[KubotaPowered]

Stock lugbolts, stock steel wheels?

 

[dieselt]

Stock lugbolts, stock steel wheels?

Yes, everything is stock and has been used on the vehicle for the past 4 yrs during the winter.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

It may be possible that they were never torqued down the last time you rotated. Maybe you missed that wheel. I have not seen that happen. The only time I ever have seen a wheel come off was on a Jeep Wrangler with a bad wheel bearing and the whole hub cracked off.

 

[Joe_Meehan]

I have seen it, or close to it, several times on my own car or some else's. Each time it went back to someone not tightening the lug nuts properly.

 

[roadhard1960]

I had taken the rear wheels off the car yesterday to inspect the brake pads, clean the residual adhesive pad from removed wheel weights with orange cleaner, and wash the inside of the wheels. I had done the fronts earlier in the week. I torqued all the lug bolts with the torque wrench. I set it for 90 pounds which is close enough. Anyhow 7 miles later driving in to town I remembered the security key for the anti-theft bolt. It was not where it should be. Rats. I saw it siting in the driveway this morning. It fell off that lug bolt as I was turning the car around last night. Yeah.

The book says you are supposed to check lug bolt tightness after a few hundred miles. I do not recall doing that but maybe once the first time I put aluminum wheels on my old Rabbit. I never had a wheel go loose but I always torque with a click torque wrench and I do the 5 star skip a bolt pattern with a double check when done. I also get it fairly tight before the tire touches the ground. Fairly tight now consists of a quick squeeze of the electric impact gun twice around the lug bolts so that the wheel is fairly snug before it starts to hold any car weight. I could of course use a hand wrench but I have the impact wrench. I would guess the lug bolts are set at about 40 pound before the car is on the ground. That wheel can feel like it is seated at tiny torque but it takes a bit of torque to get the wheels to properly seat against the hub. As I mentioned I do two torque rotations before the wheel is off the jack to snug up and seat and another two torque rotations once I set the wrench to 90 pounds. I do not want the wheels to fall off because the wheel did not seat. An improperly seated wheel could fool you.

Trusting some tire shops is folly. Many will not use a torque wrench. That is not horrid if they are using torque limiting extensions. Different colors for different torques but I prefer an old fashion clicker wrench. Dealer mechanic once tightened the bolts so tight the tire store needed someone to hold the brakes while they got a big breaker bar out. I guess any hack mechanic could do that. The problem when a hack mechanic over tightens a lug bolt is you cannot get it off if you have a roadside flat.

 

[Herm TDI]

no Tim

I have seen it, or close to it, several times on my own car or some else's. Each time it went back to someone not tightening the lug nuts properly.

Smiling as I read this.
This just isn't (remotely) possiable. Tim (aka dieselt) is a retired
Naval flight engineer he was born with a torque wrench stuck up his arse.

 

[dieselt]

I have seen it, or close to it, several times on my own car or some else's. Each time it went back to someone not tightening the lug nuts properly.

My procedure for mounting a wheel:

1. Center the wheel and start the lowest lug bolt by hand.
2. Start the highest lug bolt by hand.
3. Install the remaining lug bolts by hand in a criss cross pattern.
4. Seat all lug bolts using 17mm socket and rachet in a criss cross pattern tight enoungh to partially lower the vehicle and make contact with the road surface.
5. Torgue all bolts to half the required torque value in a criss cross pattern.
6. Fianal torque all wheel bolts in a criss cross pattern.
7. Test drive at various speeds and corners.
8. Retorque all lug bolts in a criss cross pattern after test drive.

I do this with any vehicle requiring wheel/tire installation.
I own and use 4 torque wrenches that I alone use to make sure they are not dropped or misused.
With allow wheels I retorque after 200 miles.

Having inspected the other three wheels and finding 2 lug bolts only hand tight I beleive corrosion in the threaded portion of the hub caused the torque to be erroneous.
I recommed that a 14mm/150 tap be used to chase the threads when ever corrosion is present or if you are unable to thread the lug bolts all the way in by hand.

 

[MOGolf]

I retorqued all the other lug bolts to 85 ft ilbs, finding two loose.

The proper torque is 89 ft-lbs (120 Nm).

 

[merkerguitars]

A good 1/2 impact and a torque stick, and blasting each lug 3 times, never had a single wheel fall off.

 

[HopefulFred]

Is there any way this is weather-related? Can the bolts get frost-wedged loose? Or what's the possibility that the alloy contracts significantly more than the bolt when it cools? Maybe those two factors can work together to allow the bolt to work loose.

As a side-bar: how do you guys feel about using an anti-seize on the threads of wheel bolts?

 

[coalminer16]

With a steel wheel I would torque it a bit more. The aluminum is the ones that can ruin the wheel if over torqued. I did have a wheel almost fall off yes but my falt. I put it on with a 3/8 ratchet and forgot to torque.

 

[Keith_J]

Watch the lefts. They want to come undone. Older vehicles often had LEFT-HANDED threading of the left wheels. Why?

Torque is a special vector as it can slide. Try torquing the lug bolts with the wheel free spinning to see this. The SAME torque you put on the bolt is the SAME torque that wants to turn the wheel!

 

[mittzlepick]

I have had them go loose on my plow trucks after the usual overload of ice melt dually rears that is I was up midcoast and some of those craters could be like an overload!

 

[mrGutWrench]

(snip) Trusting some tire shops is folly. Many will not use a torque wrench. That is not horrid if they are using torque limiting extensions. Different colors for different torques but I prefer an old fashion clicker wrench. Dealer mechanic once tightened the bolts so tight the tire store needed someone to hold the brakes while they got a big breaker bar out. I guess any hack mechanic could do that. The problem when a hack mechanic over tightens a lug bolt is you cannot get it off if you have a roadside flat.

__. It has been reported here that overtightening can warp the hubs and lead to brake disks that are "potato chipped". There is a torque spec for a reason.

 

[mk3]

Did the bolts fall out? or fatigue and break?

Assuming you didn't have a brain malfunction and actually didn't torque everything you thought you did... i'd say the torque wrench is suspect.

I use a torque wrench but I set it a tiny bit low and do the last crack with the factory tool just so I get to "feel" that it is tight. It is also a good idea to keep the threads clean and dry and to replace any lug bolts that have any thread damage. friction is the biggest variable in the tightening process.


In the rare case that I have a shop do any work on the wheels I find they put the lug bolts a lot tighter than what I do.


** do not use anti-seize on the lug bolt threads. This will change the friction and you will end up with an overtightened bolt. One reason I say this is because the manufacturer says so. However, *assuming* you somehow get the bolt to the correct preload, anti-seize will not do any harm. With a properly tightened bolted joint the only thing that comes into play is the friction between the clamped surface and the preload tension of the fastener.

 

[Dodoma]

You need to have investigated cause for vibrations while driving. Those happens when the wheel lugs get lose. Please ensure that lugs or wheel bolts are tightened properly, not hand tight. If you do not have a torque wrench, use a piece of metal tube over the wheel wrench bar to apply leverage. You should not tight so much that the threads are stripped. There are plenty of wheel wrenches you can buy from the likes of Pep Boys, Autozone, Kragen, Walmart, Harbor Tools, etc. These include torque wrenches that runs on car battery current thru cigrette lighter socket (rather than air compressor). I am happy that you did not suffer any injury and that the wheel did not fly and hit other vehicles. Otherwise, there would be many insurance claims. A lesson learned from this eposide is that in future you will be able to recognize when wheel lugs are lose.

 

[puter]

Dodoma, did you read the thread before you replied?

 

[coalminer16]

__. It has been reported here that overtightening can warp the hubs and lead to brake disks that are "potato chipped". There is a torque spec for a reason.

.

And an order to the torque preceedure.

 

[PDJetta]

"do not use anti-seize on the lug bolt threads. This will change the friction and you will end up with an overtightened bolt. "

I did that once on my '85 Jetta TD's lug bolts and they ended up not tightening all the way (just seemed to tighten to about 60 ft-lbs), so I turned them a few more turns. I removed one and it was 1/4 inch LONGER than a new lug bolt and thinner in the middle. All of them permanently stretched and were ruined! I even put anti seize under the ball part on the bolt head that tightens against the wheel. Never again!

--Nate

 

[mk3]

PDJetta, thanks for sharing your story. It's a shocking and perfect example of what can go wrong if you put a really good lubricant on the threads when you are not supposed to.

 

[paramedick]

Yeah, and watch tire shops. I had a new one do a rotate/balance for me. I walked out in the garage, and caught them putting anti-seize on ALL the lug bolts. "We do this on all VW lugbolts so they don't seize".

They weren't happy when I made them remove every bolt and clean the hubs of the gunk.

 

[PDJetta]

PDJetta, thanks for sharing your story. It's a shocking and perfect example of what can go wrong if you put a really good lubricant on the threads when you are not supposed to.

Yes, I was rather supprised at how little torque it took to ruin the lug bolts. Something similar happened to me when I installed the transaxle oil pan on my wife's Buick (I serviced the transmision). The automatic transmission fluid got into the bolt holes and all over the bolts, thuroughly coating them. Same thing, would not tighten to the specified torque and many of them stretched. One broke off.

--Nate

 

[hevster1]

First off if the wheel came off something wasn't correct.

Defective/worn parts(oblong lug bolt seats on steel wheels for example), rust, improper procedure, wheel not seated on hub centric etc. are some of the possibles. In 23 years of working on the line I have NEVER had a wheel come loose using a torque wrench (I guess I am doing something right or I am super lucky). I do however use QUALITY torque wrenches of either the split beam/tuning fork, dial, electronic or clicker style which are accurate to within 2% or better. I have them serviced and calibrated once a year. I do not use the old style beam wrenches as they are hard to read accurately. Also unless they are TOP quality their accuracy is in question. I have seen as much as a 20% difference in them from the same manufacturer. I do not use torque sticks, they are crap and inaccurate. I do not buy tools, especially torque wrenches, from harbor freight or discount houses. I only buy brands which I know are quality. I don't even buy Craftsman any more as they are not what they used to be.

With all due respect to the engineers, NEVER use a tap to chase/repair threads especially on critical applications such as lug bolt threads. Taps are thread cutters and ALWAYS remove metal. A properly sized thread chaser is the correct tool to use. Now I am not going to tell you I have never done it on say a splash shield mount or something non critical. I have never, nor will I ever do it on something critical. If the part is damaged/rusted beyond what a chaser/wire brush/scotch-brite pad will cleanup it needs replacement or possibly, in the case of threads a recoil although I would in that case (Lugs) give the customer the option and have them sign off.

Regarding anti-sieze; I have used it on lug studs and bolts for years. If used SPARINGLY it works as intended. I have never damaged the threads of any lug bolts or studs by torquing them to the proper amount after applying a dot of anti-sieze on the threads(NEVER use it on the lug bolt seats). On gas vehicles I use them on spark plug threads and I never have an issue with plugs seized in aluminum heads. I have also never stripped any head while using it. I don't use it on head bolts for example (I use light machine oil, SPARINGLY as called for in the manual on certain cars) and just like anything else if you use too much it can be a problem. According to some here either I should have broken/stretched all my lug bolts or had a catastrophic failure of some sort. So far so good...23 years worth.

 

[eb2143]

Living in these parts I always hit each lug with a wire brush on a drill to get the corrosion off the threads.

Then I will either use a very small amount of anti-seize or graphite powder for lubricant and torque to 89 ft/lbs.

To the OP, it could be that those 4 ft/lbs low combined with an off-torque wrench meant you just didn't have enough torque on them. Still very odd though. I've heard it's usually evident when a wheel is loose before it falls off.