What's wrong with diesel price?

shutterfly

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2010 JSW
I noticed this a couple of weeks back and this morning I was shocked. On my way to work, the regular gas price at a Conoco gas station is only $2.29/gal (down from $2.86) while diesel is still at a staggering 2.79/gal!
It just doesn't make any sense! Diesel and gaseline are refined from the same crude oil, and it even costs less to make than gaseline, and there hasn't been any spike in diesel demand. What on earth is wrong here?
 

8606

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Location
Dearborn MI
TDI
06 Jetta-sold
"It just doesn't make any sense! Diesel and gaseline are refined from the same crude oil, and it even costs less to make than gaseline, and there hasn't been any spike in diesel demand. What on earth is wrong here?"

The explanation I have heard and makes the most sense is-demand for diesel is consistent. No highs and lows, the same demand throughout the year, where gas has highs and lows depending on the time of the year. They got us and they know it.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
Around here, diesel has always been higher in the fall/winter months because of demand for home heating oil. Also, you have to figure that they are ramping up for the switch to ULSD next month....so it makes sense to me. Hopefully we will see a break in the spring.

ALSO, what does this message have to do with the A5? This should have been posted in the Fuels & Lubricants section.
 
Last edited:

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
shutterfly said:
I noticed this a couple of weeks back and this morning I was shocked. On my way to work, the regular gas price at a Conoco gas station is only $2.29/gal (down from $2.86) while diesel is still at a staggering 2.79/gal!
It just doesn't make any sense! Diesel and gaseline are refined from the same crude oil, and it even costs less to make than gaseline, and there hasn't been any spike in diesel demand. What on earth is wrong here?
What state do you live in? Some states tax diesel more (like where I live).
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
8606 said:
"It just doesn't make any sense! Diesel and gaseline are refined from the same crude oil, and it even costs less to make than gaseline, and there hasn't been any spike in diesel demand. What on earth is wrong here?" ...
It is made from the same crude, but you don't just take a gallon of crude and make it into gasoline and another and make it into diesel.

The crude has by nature X% if gasoline and Y% of diesel. You can just distill the two products out. Now if you want more gasoline or diesel (or any of the other products) than the natural percentages, you need to do some more work and crack (break down large molecules) or reformulate putting smaller ones together. That cost more so when one demand is higher, then that product will go up in price.

Now add to that that there is a change in demand. During the summer gasoline is in heavy demand for summer driving and vacations. People don't drive as much in winter. In the winter heating oil is in demand and that is essentially the same product as diesel.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
DRbillZ said:
1) Heating oil season
2) Paying for the infrastructure to supply ULSD
Seems like every season there is some *convenient* reason for diesel to be more expensive than RUG.
 

mauleskyrocket

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Location
virginia
Here we go

The last time we dealt with this we awoke some sleeping giants. Start from the beginning. A barrel of oil costs what it costs. Refining is a static cost and does not really vary. Therefore the only real variable is the base cost of oil. Yet if you make a graph of that you will see that the price of fuel bears no relationship to the market. The "futures" market is pure bull for speculatores. Bottom line---the public is getting screwed and is too dumb to know it. Now for refining costs. Diesel costs about 60% of gasoline to refine. Remember the barrel costs the same. Truth be told the big guys hate your TDI's and CDI's. The prices are artificially high and the standards for diesel are lobbied by $$$ to make sure your costs are so high that you don't buy a diesel car. Ok. Shoot the messenger.
 

Mach1

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
The first batchs of ULSD have made it here...

gas=2.49

diesel=2.69
 

TDITimber

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
High Ridge Missouri
TDI
15 Passat TDI SEL
no-blue-screen said:
Around here, diesel has always been higher in the fall/winter months because of demand for home heating oil. Also, you have to figure that they are ramping up for the switch to ULSD next month....so it makes sense to me. Hopefully we will see a break in the spring.

ALSO, what does this message have to do with the A5? This should have been posted in the Fuels & Lubricants section.
Some people around here are just plain ignorant. I for one enjoy all the posts. Lighten up a little.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
TDITimber said:
Some people around here are just plain ignorant. I for one enjoy all the posts. Lighten up a little.
I am not ignorant, I am simply pointing out that mis-posting makes it harder for people to find useful information on this site. If everyone is just going to post whereever they want without paying any attention to catagories...why have catagories at all? This has been more and more of a problem lately, and it creates more work for the moderators.
 

DRbillZ

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Location
Jackson,Tn. Home of Carl Perkins :)
TDI
New Beetle, Jetta, one totaled Passat....RIP.
Oh No! The Forum Police has arrived.
I for one could care if anyone posts anything about diesel fuel in here. We all use it. I rarely visit the other Forums anyway so I would never have seen this post.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
Well YOU are not the only person using this forum. As long as there is a fuels and lubricants section, this post doesn't belong here...period. Diesel prices are a general discussion and are not tied specifically to the A5. I am not the forum police, I am simply pointing this out in an effort to help people that actually use the search function and post in the proper areas. When someone searching this forum on an issue regarding their A5, I doubt they care to see results regarding diesel prices. It annoys me, and I know it annoys others as well. Since it is posted in the wrong area anyway...why not just hijack the thread totally? At least my initial post had something to do with the topic.
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
no-blue-screen said:
I am not ignorant, I am simply pointing out that mis-posting makes it harder for people to find useful information on this site. If everyone is just going to post whereever they want without paying any attention to catagories...why have catagories at all? This has been more and more of a problem lately, and it creates more work for the moderators.

Relax!:eek: He was calling the original poster ignorant for posting the thread in this forum.

Back on topic...from what I've noticed, D2 has constantly stayed above the cost of gasoline by at least $.20. So how is now any different?

Runaway_TDI said:
I can't believe the owner/operator truckers haven't been complaining.
They've been around long enough to know that complaining won't help. Best bet is try and cut costs in other areas or raise revenues to cover increased operating costs.

mauleskyrocket said:
Truth be told the big guys hate your TDI's and CDI's. The prices are artificially high and the standards for diesel are lobbied by $$$ to make sure your costs are so high that you don't buy a diesel car.
I don't know what percentage of diesel sales is attributed to efficient diesel cars (<5%?) but I'm sure it's not enough for the big oil companies to care about.

My $.02.:)
 

TDITimber

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
High Ridge Missouri
TDI
15 Passat TDI SEL
DRbillZ said:
Oh No! The Forum Police has arrived.
I for one could care if anyone posts anything about diesel fuel in here. We all use it. I rarely visit the other Forums anyway so I would never have seen this post.
I agree with you 100%
 

eyetdiman

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Location
Wilmette, IL
TDI
'04 Passat TDI Sedan
The oil companies have a "captive" market that is not dependant upon the price of fuel...truckers, airlines, railroads, construction equipment, ocean freighters, and the like. They all need fuel and will pay what ever they have to without complaining as the cost is just passed along to the consumer. (Think for one second the garbage hauler is going to stop picking up garbage in protest to the price of diesel fuel?) Even my landscaper now adds a "fuel surcharge," for his service...as do the airlines and others.

There are also very few independent truckers around anymore, so they have no collective voice. They are the ones the most badly hurt by this price difference.

The only ones that would have a "boycot" effect, would be the fuel tank truck drivers themselves...but if that were to happen former president Regan would reappear and fire them all thinking it was PACTO all over again!!
 

shutterfly

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2010 JSW
I live in the city which has more than half of US' refining capacity. Yet fuel price is not the cheapest, even within the State of Texas. During the nine months ownership of my Jetta TDI (I hope this would make the post more relevant:)), I have seen once a while Diesel was as much as $0.20 lower than gass, while most of the times stayed with in +/- $0.10 of gaseline. The recent price differential of $0.50/gal is simply no right.
I googled and it looks the offical explanation is "the worries on the 10/15 deadline for ultra low sulfur diesel keep the price high". In the light of the fact that there are already many gas station started supply ULSD a while back, I would just regard this as another perfect example of those big oils taking advantage of ill-informed consumers.
 

Mach1

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
Diesel dropped $.18 a gallon in one week. Its down to $2.53 gallon now.
 

gtalexad

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Location
GA
TDI
2011 ML 350 Bluetec, 2011 JSW TDI (sold), 2005.5 Jetta TDI (sold)
I paid $2.359 at FlyingJ in GA yesterday evening, filling up on my way back into Atlanta. $2.399 in Northern Kentucky (also FlyingJ) after leaving Ohio yesterday afternoon. Both are truck stops along I75.

I must be lucky that GA and KY (my fueling spots for my weekly commute) seem to be on the low end for Diesel prices. :D
 
Last edited:

Vipervnm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Location
Kingwood, NJ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI Package 1
Sunoco Diesel is/has been ULSD

I'm a structural engineer and worked on the conversion projects that converted LSD units (individual plants within the refinery) to ULSD capable. Sunoco has been producing ULSD at it's Philadelphia PA, Eagle Point NJ, Marcus Hook PA, and Toldedo refineries since June and July. I know because I can walk out to the units in PA and NJ right now and hear them producing tens of thousands of barrels per day! You're all right. If the price is high based on the pretense that the deadline may not be met, it's COMPLETE BS. All ULSD units nationwide were supposed to be operational in June per EPA regulations. Sunoco may have to pay the hefty fines imposed for missing that deadline in the NJ refinery. However, it would be BS if they were allowed to pass the cost of the fine to the consumer.
 

gtalexad

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Location
GA
TDI
2011 ML 350 Bluetec, 2011 JSW TDI (sold), 2005.5 Jetta TDI (sold)
Yes, Diesel is fairly pricey in Metro Atlanta itself - unless you shop at a truck stop on one of the freeways.

FlyingJ is usually the cheapest, but even 'Pilot', 'Loves' and 'Travelcenter of America (TA)' are a bit less expensive than what you usually find in the city itself.

Seems to depend on the location as well:

http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/diesel_CF.cfm

http://www.pilotcorp.com/Locations/Travel_Centers/Complete_Pricing_List.aspx

http://www.tatravelcenters.com/taweb/Content/SiteDiesel.aspx?page_id=200

http://www.loves.com/

If you live near one that is cheap, it may be worth checking it out.

EDIT: I guess the same probably applies to Savannah, GA

mmalluck said:
You might have just got lucky. I had to fill-up in Atlanta yesterday and the best I found was $2.65 :-(
 
Last edited:

dieselrox

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Location
Vail (Tucson) AZ
TDI
2006.5 Jetta TDI, Pkg 2
Here's a little online hint for finding the best prices on diesel. Open up a web browser and go to http://www.<yourstate>gasprices.com (e.g. http://www.virginiagasprices.com). In the "search for gas prices" section on the left, click on "diesel prices" then select your area and station (or all areas and all stations if you wish). The list will come up sorted by the cheapest price first.
 

Mach1

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
Dropped to $2.47 today another good drop...Not as good as Kansas prices though..
 

fish_on

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Location
Columbia City, OR
TDI
2010 Jetta, White, DSG
I am convinced that the higher diesel prices are to subsidise lower gas prices. Diesel use to be lower until gas prices went way up and people started to complain. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and the media only covers gas not the evil diesel.
 

DieselDavid

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
Maryland
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI 6M, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6M, 2015 Golf SEL TDI DSG
I think it is better to look at the cost per mile when comparing the prices of diesel and low octane gasoline. Quick math:

(cost / gallon) / (miles / gallon) =
(cost / gallon) * (gallon / miles) =
cost / mile

This gives us a small number so the results might be easier to compare if we multiply the values by 100, meaning to compute the cost per 100 miles.

Let's use 40X40's prices and see which is more economical.

The EPA says my 2005.5 Jetta TDI averages 43 MPG on highways. $2.27 per gallon / 43 MPG = $0.05279 per mile or $5.279 per 100 miles.

Suppose we had a gasoline car that averages 35 MPG on highways. Not bad, right? Let's do the math. $1.98 per gallon / 35 MPG = $0.05657 per mile or $5.657 per 100 miles.

So using these prices it costs less to drive my 2005.5 Jetta TDI than a typical gasoline car since the gasoline car gets worse fuel economy. Small difference - but we drive tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of miles with our cars, not hundreds of miles.

We can screw around with the equation and numbers and see that with 40X40's prices we'd need to have a gasoline car averaging 37.5 MPG to be more economical. True some cars are rated by the EPA at more than 37 MPG highways - but there aren't many of them. And those that do exceed the EPA highway rating of 37 MPG probably are not as nice as our TDI cars!

PS. At this moment in my area the least expensive fuel station is selling diesel for $2.40 per gallon and low octane gasoline higher for $2.50 per gallon. The cheapest low octane gasoline is about 20 miles north and is $2.40 per gallon.
 
Top