What year best for WVO/WEO

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
Hi again TDI Club haven't posted for a while. I'm looking to purchase a car and am considering 99-mid 2000's as choices. I would like to ask if the PD is a better choice than the ALH for engine type for fueling with WVO or Black Diesel. I thought maybe the individual injection units on the PD engine would eliminate at least some of the strain on the main fuel pump.
 

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
Thanks and any comments especially well know and tested mods to either engine type say aftermarket fuel pump for ALH engine concerns with any other fuel system components when using fuel with higher viscosity. I will alternatively research further the topic in the forums. Thanks
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
I have converted two Jettas, an ‘02 and an ‘06. The ‘02 was easier, because you don’t have to be concerned with an electric lift pump. Otherwise both ran well for a long time on WVO.
 

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
Phil a number of questions for you. You say they "Ran" for a long time being did run and not anymore? How many miles on the engine once converted and how many post conversion?

Single tank or double tank? Did you use a commercial conversion kit or build you're own? Did you do any mods outside of what was suggested if a purchased kit. Did you follow any suggestions or procedures of any members of TDI Club?

I have read the write up by T's TDI on WVO conversion and found it informative if perhaps slightly dissuasive. He explains how to execute a work around for the fuel temperature sensor that I believe is likely one of the most important areas to consider relative to timing. Did you use any timing mods etc.
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
Both ran well as long as I owned them. The ‘02 I converted at 75K and ran to 275K, I think. It was pretty beat up by then; I sold it to someone who mostly wanted the engine and transmission (5 speed). The body was banged up and the interior was worse. The ‘06 I converted at 80K and ran to about 225K when I stopped driving long distances and traded it for a Leaf.

Both cars had Greasecar 2 tank kits. The only significant modification was a Vegitherm electric fuel line heater, which allowed me to add some additional heat when needed. I was aware of the temp sensor mod, but never did it. My cars seemed to run just fine, with no noticeable loss of power, so I didn’t bother. I also vented the tank overboard, so an overflow wouldn’t make a mess. That probably reduced the smell in the trunk too.

Probably at least as important is the fuel and filtering. You need a reliable source of decent quality oil, and you have to filter it well.
 

tdihopeful

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Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
When you said "ran to" that is misleading. A more accurate description would be (had x number of miles when sold) I'm looking for accurate information to make informed decisions on conversion. To say having a consistent supply of of oil seems a little unnecessary unless such is in regards to the effects of aromatic compounds on stock fuel pump seals.
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
I don’t see anything misleading about “ran to”, That is exactly what you asked, and exactly what I did. If you are looking for more information, just ask. As I said , the number of miles I “ran to” is when I sold it. What do you find misleading about that?

I don’t know anything about aromatic compounds and fuel pump seals, so I didn’t say anything about that. I do know that you need a reliable source of decent quality oil, so i told you so. That is in fact true, and more than a few people have converted their cars, only to learn they can’t get enough oil. That is a mistake, and one you would be wise to avoid.

If you have any more questions, I will be happy to answer them also, if I know the answers.
 

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
What mileage could be typically seen where turbo needs rebuild/replacement and what problem(s) could an early turbo replacement on a factory stock or close car be indicative of outside of say oil starvation from a blockage or leak.
 

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
There are numerous things I know niches type specifically detailed but don't know a lot of the common things. Just recently (in the last couple years) learned that biological material can grow in gasoline and diesel. That was crazy to me.
 

philngrayce

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 Jetta, '06 Jetta, Both Gone '13 Leaf, Gone Liberty CRD, Subaru Forrester and MB300SD
I don’t know how long turbos last, but I’ve seen very few fail. I never had an issue so a couple hundred thousand miles seems a a good minimum.

I do know about stuff growing in your diesel. Or WVO. I used to add a biocide to my WVO storage tanks. It is designed for diesel, but seems to work fine for WVO too. I never had a problem after I started using it.
 

WooK

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Location
Moreno Valley, California
TDI
2006 Jetta
I have an 06 Jetta using a Greasecar Kit. I converted my car at 100k and now it's 196k. Still going strong and no WVO issues. my car is all stock and no performance enhancements. I do oil changes every 5000 miles and have sent in my used oil motor for testing every year at blackstone. I'm due to send in my motor oil this year. Everything has been running well with no issues.
 

Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
Thanks and any comments especially well know and tested mods to either engine type say aftermarket fuel pump for ALH engine concerns with any other fuel system components when using fuel with higher viscosity. I will alternatively research further the topic in the forums. Thanks
Hi

I have researched into alternate fuels as well (especially black diesel) and , in theory, your fuel should NOT be a higher viscosity since you should cut it to make it the correct viscosity for optimal running.

To help thin alternate fuels you could also utilize a heated fuel system but personally I would prefer not to do that because you can read a lot of threads on here where people actually try to cool their fuel to help injection pump life Etc ... plus a heated fuel system costs $$ and is another possible point of breakdown / mechanical issues.

In running black diesel it's probably best to cut the fuel to the proper viscosity to start with than to rely on heat Etc to do the same for you.

Veggie type systems tend to run to tank systems .... start and end on diesel and run on heated vegetable oil.

Biodiesel is kind of interesting but all the fuel prep was a little beyond me ... and with biodiesel you have to worry about seals and such but those could be replaced of course

I have read that typically older mechanical Diesel's work better with alternate fuels than newer type diesels.

Initially I was planning on running black diesel myself and even have an entire setup to process it but regrettably I've been so busy just working and driving I have not had a chance to do that yet...

Admittedly back when I was running big trucks it would have had a much faster pay back then running alternate fuels in a 50 MPG plus car.

Still I would be curious to see your results in running alternate fuels.

Hope this helps you
Andrew
 
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tdihopeful

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Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
Andrew I see what you're mentioning about such a system being better for Trucks or Heavy machinery like tractors and such. I'm not in the position right now to be testing this sorta stuff on my primary vehicle. I would like to know more about the cutting of fuel WMO or other high viscosity fuel. The other thing I was considering was numerous articles I have read that seemed credible stated that gasoline engines can benefit from running small quantities of diesel and vice versa diesel engines supposedly can benefit from cutting with small quantities of gasoline. Has anyone read the same materials or studies?
 

Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
Andrew I see what you're mentioning about such a system being better for Trucks or Heavy machinery like tractors and such. I'm not in the position right now to be testing this sorta stuff on my primary vehicle. I would like to know more about the cutting of fuel WMO or other high viscosity fuel. The other thing I was considering was numerous articles I have read that seemed credible stated that gasoline engines can benefit from running small quantities of diesel and vice versa diesel engines supposedly can benefit from cutting with small quantities of gasoline. Has anyone read the same materials or studies?
Hi,

W85 (waste motor oil 85% (of course highly filtered or centrifuged/ dried ) cut with RUG 15% (regular unleaded gas) to approximate diesel fuel viscosity operates best (easiest) in more mechanical engines with looser tolerances.

You don't want to cut the waste motor oil with other high viscosity fuels because your overall goal is to make the relatively thick used motor oil approximate diesel viscosity so you have to cut it with things that will thin itout rather than keep as thick as it is starting out (RUG seems to be the cheapest commonly available item to do this and the 15% ratio is the typical starting point depending on how thick the oil you initially have is).

You can get fancy with flow gauges / tools and specific gravity tools to more accurately get the WMO to mimmic Diesel viscosity.

W85 can work in older diesel cars / trucks as well but I mainly mentioned using it in larger trucks and equipment since they drink far more fuel than our fuel sipping 50+ MPG TDI's so you would see a greater savings faster (back when I was operating box trucks for deliveries I was spending about $300 per day in fuel costs alone .... you can see how even saving 1/2 of that daily would add up quick!).

I have read that IDI engines seem more forgiving than DI engines of the W85.

I did not really get into it from a user standpoint because By the time I got everything set up I got out of the box trucking because the companies I ran through lost the contracts etc .... BUT there was money to be made because we were making some $$ off the trucking to start with .... saving the extra $$ up to whatever fuel we could replace by running W85 could have been pretty good $$ per day in just money NOT spent for fuel.

BTW if doing this , the W85 is a fuel additive/ fuel displacer that helps lube the engine (its motor oil after all !) NOT a fuel so no road tax etc .... Plus technically the RUG has already been taxed!

Of course some may come back and say burning oil is not allowable etc BUT back in the day some big trucks ran oil changers that basically routed old engine oil back into the fuel to be burned ... I cant recall the name of that system but it was made and installed on some big rigs ... aftermarket I believe.

Andrew
 
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