What went wrong with my Frost Heater Install?

Decivox

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Oct 20, 2013
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Ottawa, ON
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2001 Golf GL Coupe
So I got some much needed help from macoombi on Sunday with installing my Frost Heater (thanks again BTW!). Yesterday at 2PM I decided to plug it in at work as the temperature was around -15 at the time and dropping. I got in the car at 5PM expecting to see the temp needle around 90 and it wasn't even half way there. In fact, it was hardly above the first three really close marks. I thought that was a bit odd but thought Id give it another try.

I dont pay for hydro at my apartment so I plugged in around 10 PM. I came out at 9AM today expecting for sure it would be at 90. I expect the temps would have been as low as -25 to -30 overnight. This morning was probably around -20. The snow on the hood above where the frost heater is was melted a bit so I thought it worked for sure. I got in and waited for the car to read the temp. The gas needled sprung to life and the temp needle didnt move at all. I drove the car in and the warm up time was about equal to that if I didnt plug in at all. I didnt even bother trying the heat. I am going to double check the outlet was working, but if the now was melted it must have been doing something?

We didnt have the instructions out much since macoombi installed them before, but did we possibly miss something? Is there some kind of temperature calibration or something that I am supposed to do with this thing? I was hoping to try it again today at work but someone took the only spot with a plug (and it doesnt even use it :mad:).

SOLVED: SEE http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4404676&postcount=4
 
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mrrhtuner

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London Ont Canada
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I think with the extreme cold temps be happy that it started. -25 to -30 is tough and we are somewhere between -30 and -40 at night.

Right now it's -25 and feels like -40.
 

Decivox

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Oct 20, 2013
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Ottawa, ON
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2001 Golf GL Coupe
I think with the extreme cold temps be happy that it started. -25 to -30 is tough and we are somewhere between -30 and -40 at night.

Right now it's -25 and feels like -40.
Without the Frost Heater I was able to start when it felt like -45 last week. Cycled the glow plugs 4-5 times and boom, came to life. I guess it did start easier than before this morning... although if that is the expected performance of the frost heater, Ill have to say that I am disappointed considering the hype for this thing. Being able to have the heat on in a few minutes was the main reason I got it and it doesnt look like it can provide that beyond -20 even with a 12 hour plug in time (unless mine is underperforming).
 
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Wingnut

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Which wattage heater did you get? I think the Frostheater is 1000W? As you can see from the chart below, it does not heat your engine to full operating temp. It simply increases the temperature relative to the ambient temperatures. If it is really cold out, it won't get things really hot.

In your example of plugging it in at work, (based on the 1000w chart) and you plugged it in for 3 hours, the temp of the coolant will have risen about 27*C above ambient. So if it was -15 outside, your coolant was only +12*C.

On a normal winter day with a low temp of -5 to -10, the coolant will be warm enough to throw heat right away. But if the ambient temp is -23, like this morning, then the coolant will only be at +10* if plugged in for 5+ hours (a rise of 33*).

 
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Vince Waldon

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There's no calibration etc required... just an install at a low point in the engine compartment so that convection can work its magic.

Step 1: confirm power at each outlet. In particular, many regions call, by code, for power at workplaces to be cycled, or a breaker has tripped, or...

Step 2: leave it on overnight at home (once you know you have a working outlet) and then feel for warm hoses to and from the heater itself. The idiot gauge is in fact an idiot and lies like a rug. :):)
 

flyboy320

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With my factory block heater if I leave it plugged in overnight in the garage (not heated, but say it's 5c when it's -10c outside), then the coolant temp gauge will only be around the first 2-3 marks. Once It's started, the gauge quickly drops a mark or two. It definitely helps with warm up times as well as I get much better mileage on the way to work.
 

Decivox

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Ottawa, ON
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2001 Golf GL Coupe
Wingnut, thanks a lot for the explanation. Looks like after 6-7 hours the temp basically levels off. I do believe it is 1000W, so it looks like it is functioning nominally. I guess I was just reading stuff from people living in a bit warmer conditions. Although this winter has been a b*tch.

Frost Heater should sell a 1500W Canadian Edition ;). Although after seeing the installation, if I were to do it again I would have just bought the 1500W from Crappy Tire and got the mustang hose. Would have saved some $$ too.
 
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Windex

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Cambridge
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05 B5V 01E FRF
1000w is fine. My block heater (a true "block" heater which is mounted into the engine) is only 300w, and works fine.

You don't want or need a coolant heater to keep the engine at operating temperature - just enough to heat the coolant and block so that the engine will start easily.

at -25 deg c and windy this morning, my block heater had the engine coolant at 5 deg c (as verified by my scangauge, not the less-than-accurate gauge in the dash), which was enough to start the car without issue.

When I had my Mk4 with a zerostart installed, I specifically chose the 750w version, as it was more than enough - it never failed me through multiple chilly winter trips into Montreal and here in Ontario.
 

kei78

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Some where out there...
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I only have a 750W zerostart and have my timer on starting from 5am - 8am. I usually leave for work at 7am so the zerostart is only on for 2 hours or so. It has never given me any issues with starting including today.
 

DumpInfo

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May 18, 2011
Location
Courtice, Ontario
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2006 Golf TDI
Sorry for hijacking your thread but I don't want to open another thread just to ask a quick little question about frost heaters....


Bought mine and installed by Brandon (DCB) about 2-3 years ago. It works flawlessly however with the extreme weather we've been experiencing lately I've had it connected day and night and sometimes I don't even drive it for days. Does that cut down the life in half of the frost heater or affect the car in any way?
 

DumpInfo

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Courtice, Ontario
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Well I had intention of going out yesterday however didn't end up doing so.

Last week I didn't have it plugged and when I wanted to use it, it wouldn't start. After having it plugged for a couple of hours it started.
 

Windex

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Cambridge
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05 B5V 01E FRF
Think about it like this - if you had an electric water heater in your basement, it would use a resistive element to heat up water continually if you used it or not. The ZeroStart/Front heater is no different.

Like a water heater, the element can wear out the more you use it, so eventually it will wear out, but the worst that will happen is that the element inside the heater will die out and the unit will stop working.

I plug mine in all night with no timer, and sometimes leave it plugged in the whole weekend if I don't go out - no harm done.
 
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LNXGUY

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Well I had intention of going out yesterday however didn't end up doing so.

Last week I didn't have it plugged and when I wanted to use it, it wouldn't start. After having it plugged for a couple of hours it started.
You shouldn't even need the Zerostart to start in these temps.. I haven't plugged mine in yet.. After the latest GP recall (glowplugs, module, reflash) the car starts up just like it does in the summer (A bit rougher mind you but you get the point)
 

Decivox

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Ottawa, ON
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2001 Golf GL Coupe
You shouldn't even need the Zerostart to start in these temps.. I haven't plugged mine in yet.. After the latest GP recall (glowplugs, module, reflash) the car starts up just like it does in the summer (A bit rougher mind you but you get the point)
I agree that its not needed as mine stilled fired up in that -40 cold snap we had last week, but having heat on the not so cold days is nice. Also a warmer engine equates to better fuel mileage (although hydro is included in my lease - if I was paying for it I think the cost benefit would be debatable).

Thanks Windex!

Lnxguy, this recall that you're talking about what Vw model and years would it be under?
04-06 IIRC
 

Wingnut

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Toronto & Whitby
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After having it plugged for a couple of hours it started.
You just answered your own question. These heaters work fine after only 2-3 hours of being plugged in. No benefit to leaving it on for extended intervals. Unless you are 'on call' and need to leave the house at the drop of a hat, just have it on a timer if you leave the house at the same time every day for work, or just plug it in before a scheduled trip to run errands. Like any heating element, it will burn out eventually.
 

DumpInfo

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Courtice, Ontario
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2006 Golf TDI
Checked using the site provided above and looks like their is no recall on my model. However great link!
 
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Rganey

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Aug 11, 2021
Location
Freeburg, Illinois
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2013 Passat SE
Which wattage heater did you get? I think the Frostheater is 1000W? As you can see from the chart below, it does not heat your engine to full operating temp. It simply increases the temperature relative to the ambient temperatures. If it is really cold out, it won't get things really hot.

In your example of plugging it in at work, (based on the 1000w chart) and you plugged it in for 3 hours, the temp of the coolant will have risen about 27*C above ambient. So if it was -15 outside, your coolant was only +12*C.

On a normal winter day with a low temp of -5 to -10, the coolant will be warm enough to throw heat right away. But if the ambient temp is -23, like this morning, then the coolant will only be at +10* if plugged in for 5+ hours (a rise of 33*).

Is this graph from Frostheater? I can't find it on their site. I have an installed Frostheater and after being plugged in, the temperature gauge in the car hardly moves or not at all . This graph though would explain why. At 20 degrees F ambient temperature fplugged in for 3 hours with the 1000 watt heater, the radiator fluid will rise 50 degrees F which will increase it to 70 degrees F. This is not going to move the needle on the temp gauge in the car. I thought my Frostheater wasn't working but based on this graph it may be fine.
 
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