What if the "FIX" results in poor milage/performance?

[bmcgis]

Hello.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed but I have looked through many posts and didn't see this specifically discussed.
I have a 14 Jetta TDI my wife loves. She would opt to get it fixed and keep the car. However we are boith worried about what the car would be like after the fix.
Does anyone know if there is a grace period where you can see if you still want the car after the fix? I saw language about Lemon Laws being in force, but I thought they only applied to new vehicle purchases and maybe not a fix such as this.
This is my only hesitation about havng the car repaired vs the buy back.
Any information is much appreciated!
Thanks

 

[DanCsTDI]

To start, I am not sure. I am selling back. But my buddies plan is to get the fix, take the $6k ish that he is getting and worse case sell or trade in the car. He is figuring that it will be in total pretty close to what the buyback would be. I guess getting the fix and taking the money they give you for it should bring you close to the current value.

 

[Airpizz6]

Suggest you read question 37 of the Settlement booklet. There is an out after the fix but it won't be easy. At least 4 trips to the shop or out of service for 30 days.

 

[bigmikeinil]

take some of the money they are giving you and do a dpf back delete and a malone tune.... fixed

 

[GetMore]

That is not meant to be an out. That is only if there are problems with the systems.
I am hoping there is some kind of recourse, if there is a noticeable negative result from the fix.

 

[S2000_guy]

Why not read the appropriate portion of the FTC Consent Decree at www.vwcourtsettlement.com? Then you'll actually know what it says.

For your question, there's no need to actually read most of the document, just scan until you come to the extended warranty for fixed cars.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Hello.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed but I have looked through many posts and didn't see this specifically discussed.
I have a 14 Jetta TDI my wife loves. She would opt to get it fixed and keep the car. However we are boith worried about what the car would be like after the fix.
Does anyone know if there is a grace period where you can see if you still want the car after the fix? I saw language about Lemon Laws being in force, but I thought they only applied to new vehicle purchases and maybe not a fix such as this.
This is my only hesitation about havng the car repaired vs the buy back.
Any information is much appreciated!
Thanks

How do you define "poor peformance and mileage" is key. If mileage is reduced by 5% you still get superior mileage compared to just about any car on the market. And "Performance" (acceleration)? Have you had your car thru time trials now to create a record of 0-60 mph or 40-75 mpg times?

 

[South Coast Guy]

take some of the money they are giving you and do a dpf back delete and a malone tune.... fixed

First the tune and DPF delete are not free. Second, just because your state doesn't do a tailpipe test doesn't mean they won't.

 

[tadawson]

First the tune and DPF delete are not free. Second, just because your state doesn't do a tailpipe test doesn't mean they won't.

But it is also highly unlikely that any state would change emissions protocols over an event this trivial in the big picture . . .

 

[DanB36]

First the tune and DPF delete are not free.

No, they aren't. Hence, "take some of the money they are giving you and..."

 

[South Coast Guy]

But it is also highly unlikely that any state would change emissions protocols over an event this trivial in the big picture . . .

Of course not!

 

[DieselMann99]

Hello.
Does anyone know if there is a grace period where you can see if you still want the car after the fix?

You don't have to see how the fix affects YOUR car. You can wait and see how it's affected other "fixed" cars. You should have some real world data on that once the fix is approved and a few thousand fixed cars have been on the road for a few thousand miles.

If you do it this way, you don't have to agonize over what your rights are post-fix.

 

[tadawson]

Of course not!

Look at what it would cost them, and get zero return on investment. Couple that with the stipulation in the settlement that says they can't deny registration because of this, period . . . and what do you get?

Nothing more than a tinfoil hat worthy speculation.

And even if they do test, the car still passes . . . I don't think anyone tailpipe tests for NOx . . . and again, they won't for a trivial number of vehicles . . .

 

[bmcgis]

Called VW directly and this is what they said...

Called VW and this is what they told me regarding these issues.

• You will NOT have the option of returning a 'fixed' car after work is completed
• The full specifications of the fix will be published before you need to make a decision
• If you choose to return your car, it can be in any drivable condition

This included not performing scheduled maintenance, scratches, dents, etc. The only hit you will get is for excessive mileage (over 12500/yr).
Thanks to everyone who offered advice and assistance!
Cheers

 

[CDubber]

First the tune and DPF delete are not free

Never having looked into this, what is the approximate cost?

 

[rfortson]

If?

If it didn't reduce mileage and/or performance, they wouldn't have put the cheat in to begin with. Whether or not you can live with it is up to you. VW is giving you ~$6k to figure it out.

 

[nutfinn]

take some of the money they are giving you and do a dpf back delete and a malone tune.... fixed

Exactly !

 

[Max Period]

From the concent decree, the following is part of the requirements for part A of the emission modification proposal: (Gens 1, 2, 3)

4.3.6
A description of any and all reasonably predictable changes, adverse or
otherwise, on vehicle attributes
which may reasonably be important to vehicle owners,
including: fuel economy, reliability, durability, Noise Vibration and Harshness, vehicle
performance (for example, 0-60 mph time, top speed, etc.), and drivability

2.17
“Drivability” means the smooth delivery of power, as demanded by the driver or
operator. Typical
elements of Drivability degradation are rough idling, misfiring, surging,
hesitation, or insufficient power. Conversion from conventional fuels to alternative
fuels may
entail losses of volumetric efficiency, resulting in some power loss. Such power loss is not
considered to be Drivability degradation.

 

[bizzle]

Never having looked into this, what is the approximate cost?

A tune, delete, and different fuel pump could easily exceed $6K if you pay someone to do the labor.

 

[03fan]

Some people think losing MPG will cost them tons of money. I did some simple math assuming $2.50/gallon for diesel. If VW gave you $5k for the fix and you went from 50mpg to 30mpg you would still be ahead $1666.67 after the fix. This is after 100,000 miles.

 

[showdown 42]

Keep in mind those who have 09-10 model yrs. The fix may not be financially possible,or should I say VW won't do it because of cost,so if you elect the fix and it doesn't happen you don't get the fix money. I was going to do the fix,but because of the compensation and doubt about the fix,I'm in for the fix.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Some people think losing MPG will cost them tons of money. I did some simple math assuming $2.50/gallon for diesel. If VW gave you $5k for the fix and you went from 50mpg to 30mpg you would still be ahead $1666.67 after the fix. This is after 100,000 miles.

Amen

MPG is (for me too) a pride ego thing

 

[rbreding]

A tune, delete, and different fuel pump could easily exceed $6K if you pay someone to do the labor.

Malone stage 2 w dsg, DPF, EGR, adblue delete with straight pipe and resonator is looking like ~3k installed on '15 passat

 

[bizzle]

Malone stage 2 w dsg, DPF, EGR, adblue delete with straight pipe and resonator is looking like ~3k installed on '15 passat

Are you going to leave the HPFP on there? Notice in the post you quoted I said, "and different fuel pump."

It would suck to drop 3K in performance mods into your car and then have to spend another $6-7K after the fuel pump grenades so if you plan on keeping it for the long-haul you should probably consider the fuel pump swap, too.

 

[TDI smile]

Reading in the German papers, that the owners of FIXED cars over in Germany are not very happy with the END result! Power / mileage etc is down. The TDI people are not HAPPY CAMPERS, so to speak.

 

[GoFaster]

The North American "fix" won't be comparable to the EU "fix".

The North American "fix" will be far, far more intrusive ...

 

[shovelhd]

Amen
MPG is (for me too) a pride ego thing

For you, it's a fantasy THANG. The MFI is not reality no matter how much you wish it was.

 

[r11]

Wait till we have evidence/dyno #s as to the effects of the fix.

I am hoping the effects will be minimal for the driving condition where our cars excel - the hwy cruising. Engine is barely loaded, temps are low and NOx levels are minimal.

Now, if you're in loaded car, towing 2000# and climbing 5% grade, loss of few HP, FP and MPG is rather likely.

 

[Vidgamer]

If?
If it didn't reduce mileage and/or performance, they wouldn't have put the cheat in to begin with. Whether or not you can live with it is up to you. VW is giving you ~$6k to figure it out.

True, but they've already implied that they won't hit the standard, just one that is good enough for this case. SO, it may not be so bad, being a compromise.

And I agree, they're giving us thousands of dollars to end up with something that doesn't have as much of an advantage as it once did, but that won't make it a bad car in and of itself. It will still get good mileage, won't it? How bad can it be? If I were wanting to keep the car, I'd just wait for the early reports to see how bad it is, and if it's not that much different, don't worry about it. I agree, a slight MPG hit is not ideal, but in terms of actual cost, it is probably not going to be all that much.

(As it is, I kind of wanted to get another car anyway, and this just seems like a convenient opportunity to take the buyout, so that probably biases my concern or lack thereof. So, never mind. ;-) )

 

[sohccammer427]

From the booklet I received from VW...
.
Class members who choose an Approved Emissions Modification will receive disclosures about the effects of the modification on performance and durability, an extended emissions warranty, and a Lemon law type remedy to protect against the possibility of the mod causing subsequent problems.
.
So it sounds like we'll know exactly what the effects on mpg/hp/torque will when the fix is announced so we will be able to decide if we want it?