What could happen if my torsion value is not set correctly?

golfere

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Ive read the torsion value specs and cannot seem to get mine anywhere within vagcom reading; Its just showing 0.0; is there an area on vagcom or a graph that shows where abouts the reading is and if i need to advance or retard it?


Could anything bad happen if i leave it how it is and drive?
 

gatz

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If its 0.0 even after making adjustments to the sprocket, you are significantly out of time mechanically. Definitely put the crank/cam lock pins back in and recheck. However, 0.0 can also be a valid reading -- that's what mine is set to. I know it's legit because the computer will show 0.0 or occasionally flicker to 0.5 while the engines running.
 

Tdijarhead

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0.0 is a valid setting, and the target for a new timing belt installation. Mine also is set at 0.0, however if your timing is way off it defaults to 0.0.

Are the 3 cam bolts more or less in the center of their respective slots or are they all the way to one side or the other? Did you just change the timing belt?

If you didn't just change the belt what made you check your torsion?
 

golfere

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Yup i just changed my timing belt and previously my torsion was retarded at -3.5 and the slots on the cam sprocket were almost all the way to one side;

i just checked my cam sprocket bolts and they are almost perfectly centered now; i just want to make sure that im not way off...
 

Tdijarhead

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When they are about centered in the slots the torsion should be right about 0.0, however if your cam is worn that might not be true. My torsion had been set at +.1. I was checking something else one day and happened to check the torsion it had moved to -2.9.

Did you check the lobes on your cam? Rub your finger along the edges they should be very smooth? If they are sharp you have a worn cam. A worn cam can cause the torsion to move.
 
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wonneber

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What do you mean by 'were almost all the way to one side' and 'they are almost perfectly centered now' ??
Did you loosen the bolts and adjust it or they moved on their own?
 

mjydrafter

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Another thing that can give you the default TV of 0.0 is a bad cam sensor or cam sensor wiring.

I don't know if that is what's going on since you had a reading before.

I would expect @-3.5 you would be towards the ends of the sprocket slots. And close to 0.0 if they are centered, assuming everything else is set correctly.
 
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golfere

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When they are about centered in the slots the torsion should be right about 0.0, however if your cam is worn that might not be true. My torsion had been set at +.1. I was checking something else one day and happened to check the torsion it had moved to -2.9.

Did you check the lobes on your cam? Rub your finger along the edges they should be very smooth? If they are sharp you have a worn cam. A worn cam can cause the torsion to move.

Cam was replaced not long ago on this car so i know thats not it
 

golfere

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What do you mean by 'were almost all the way to one side' and 'they are almost perfectly centered now' ??
Did you loosen the bolts and adjust it or they moved on their own?

The slots in the cam sprocket where the 3 bolts go in; before the timing belt job my torsion was at -3.5 and the slots in the cam sprocket showed the bolts all the way to one side


now with timing belt changed; the bolts in the cam sprocket are right around middle and torsion reading is 0.0



-------- Could anything bad happen if my torsion is way out of wack? --------
 

Tdijarhead

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Why don't you mark where it is right now and then just move it a touch and see if you get a different reading? Then you'll know for sure if it's way off.
 

golfere

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Why don't you mark where it is right now and then just move it a touch and see if you get a different reading? Then you'll know for sure if it's way off.


I gave the tools to a buddy for his car so until i get them im not sure how else to move the cam sprocket over a notch....????
 

gatz

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Mgoff5000 is suggesting that you watch that torsion value in engine block 4 column 4 (the same one you read the 0.0 value from) while driving or revving the engine. The value sometimes changes slightly (0.5 degree) with rpm. If it changes from 0 to 0.5 or -0.5, it means your belt is timed perfectly. If it doesn't change, then the test is inconclusive, and I would try nudging the cam physically:

You don't take the gear off or move it a whole notch. Leave the belt in place and loosen the 3 sprocket bolts. With a ratchet you can CAREFULLY turn the cam by the center bolt just a hair (a degree). It wont move easily/smoothly and you wont get much precision. You might try putting the ratchet on and hitting it lightly with your palm. It is an iterative process of bumping it a hair, retightening bolts, then check what VCDS says.

And take a look at this, there is a video at the end too: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/c...lue-adjustment-on-vw-and-audi-pd-tdi-engines/
 
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golfere

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Mgoff5000 is suggesting that you watch that torsion value in engine block 4 column 4 (the same one you read the 0.0 value from) while driving or revving the engine. The value sometimes changes slightly (0.5 degree) with rpm. If it changes from 0 to 0.5 or -0.5, it means your belt is timed perfectly. If it doesn't change, then the test is inconclusive, and I would try nudging the cam physically:

You don't take the gear off or move it a whole notch. Leave the belt in place and loosen the 3 sprocket bolts. With a ratchet you can CAREFULLY turn the cam by the center bolt just a hair (a degree). It wont move easily/smoothly and you wont get much precision. You might try putting the ratchet on and hitting it lightly with your palm. It is an iterative process of bumping it a hair, retightening bolts, then check what VCDS says.

And take a look at this, there is a video at the end too: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/c...lue-adjustment-on-vw-and-audi-pd-tdi-engines/

I noticed it never did change value so im probably off

Okay - I kept hearing you can just use the 18mm bolt and never wrapped my head around how it would work until looking it through for a couple more minutes; that makes sense ill just do that and post back Thanks!

So what torsion value is best for fuel economy? I know, ive read each car is different but isnt there a baseline like -1.5 is best to start with if you want to save fuel, etc?
 

Lightflyer1

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You start with getting it set to zero first. Then trial and error and fuel tracking until you see where it is best and running properly. Not the same for every car.
 

mjydrafter

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The factory original TV may be written on the TB cover. It also may be faded or written weirdly. Otherwise like Lightflyer1 mentions you have to set it by trial and error, to see best power vs. mileage. It can take a while, if you test at regular driving intervals.

It would be easy assume that they set it running at it's best. Or they would all be set the same from the factory.
 
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golfere

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Good thinking i am checking it out as trial and error now; it seems to be the same advance or retard so now just fuel mpg checking?
 

golfere

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Been at a solid -1.5 now and with the venteconomy i am getting 34mpg


I set it up at -2.5 to see the results this month so ill keep you posted
 

Tdijarhead

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I looked back through your thread and I didn't see what transmission you have. Auto or 5 spd? If you have the 5 spd 34 is way low unless you're hung up in traffic for hours at a time.
My last fill up with a new cam and my torsion at 0.0 was 53.9 mpg, it been slowly climbing since the cam replacement.

I'll be interested in your results at -2.5.
 

Tdijarhead

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36 mpg was about my average when I owned my 2006 5 speed. Low fifties with all highway and reduced speeds.

I think outside of flat ground I have what could arguably be called nearly the best conditions for great mileage, during the summer anyway. Rolling rural hills, very rarely any speed in excess of 65mph and most often 55-60 is about it. Straight flat roads are a rarity in this area.

We, just in the last 5 years got our own chunk of interstate highway (I99). With a 70 mph speed limit, that no one observes of course.

All last summer I wondered why I couldn't get above 51mpg, after my timing belt event I found 5 out of 8 lobes on my cam were worn.
 

golfere

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5speed which is low i know; I looked back and at 0.0 i got 36mpg average


i too am interested in the torsion value at -2.5 i was just worried as you know about the tensioner being too tight; well see!
 

Tdijarhead

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5speed which is low i know; I looked back and at 0.0 i got 36mpg average
i too am interested in the torsion value at -2.5 i was just worried as you know about the tensioner being too tight; well see!

I just realized that was your thread also.
 

golfere

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Yeah im having these 3 concerns with the car:


mpg not that great

tensioner is set too tight now (have no idea how it moved so much!)

intermittent CEL code 16485 (maf sensor implausible signal)


One step at a time though...and you guys are a real help here on the forums so thank you all!
 

wonneber

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Did you check if the intake manifold or EGR valve are clogged?
Did you check if you are getting boost with VCDS?
 

mjydrafter

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Yeah im having these 3 concerns with the car:


mpg not that great

tensioner is set too tight now (have no idea how it moved so much!)

intermittent CEL code 16485 (maf sensor implausible signal)



One step at a time though...and you guys are a real help here on the forums so thank you all!
#3 may/should help with #1.

I would verify it's not a wiring issue, and consider replacing the MAF.
 

golfere

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Did you check if the intake manifold or EGR valve are clogged?
Did you check if you are getting boost with VCDS?

I did clean up the egr valve and inside the manifold it didnt look too bad to remove and clean; would even a small amount of buildup affect this?


I am getting plenty of boost the car drives wonderful no problems just those
 

golfere

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#3 may/should help with #1.

I would verify it's not a wiring issue, and consider replacing the MAF.

Ive been checking wiring and it seems to be in excellent condition; also interchanged maf sensor off another golf tdi same type but still getting code reading
 

mjydrafter

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I seem to recall that folks have trouble at or near the MAF connector. Even mine was replaced as the connector was fubar'd when I got it.

Have you checked the wires back to the ECU with a meter or just visually? If they have a vibration break somewhere hidden by the insulation it's going to be difficult to find. I would check for continuity and try to wiggle them with the meter hooked up to see if it's an intermittent kind of thing.
 
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