What clutches fit the 240mm flywheel?

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I have the witbread 240mm flywheel with fx300 clutch. Has started slipping badly lately in 4th and 5th under even moderate acceleration. It is under warranty but i don't feel like keeping my vehicle down during the shipping/exam/ship back time. This time of year i dont have much down time between boating and work. My tow rig is always attached to a boat from April until October.

I have found many audi s4 240 mm clutches. Will a 1.8t 240 mm say stage 3 clutch bolt to my flyweel? Ill toss the replacement fx300 on the shelf as i intend to daily my passat until the wheels fall off.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Hmm..i may need to pull my flywheel and see what size dowels i have.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
I made a mistake in my post. I'll correct it for future readers...
It should be the 98-02 RS4 clutch, it has the 10mm dowel holes. There was no B6 RS4, just the S4 V8, which is the same as the later B7 RS4.

The 02-05 uses the smaller 6mm dowels and is used on the 4.2 V8.

The correct kit for the 10mm dowel flywheel is luk 624303300.
Bringing up this thread because I'm probably going to upgrade to Matts flywheel and the RS4 clutch. He confirmed that part number is the correct clutch, but he said i need a spacer for the transmission???

I thought his flywheel worked without spacers. I have a DUK 5 speed. Anyone know why I would need a spacer/what the part number for it is? How would I use a spacer and still be able to mount the trans correctly if its shifted back?

He also said he would machine a pilot bearing spacer for me to improve the input shaft engagement, but the dimensions would depend on the spacer used, so hes kinda got me very confused lol.

Thanks
 

PickleRick

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Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I cant help. Clutch masters had me ship them my clutch and pressure plate to tell me warranty was 90 days (they confirmed my dop from Matt before shipping so could have avoided wasting me 2 plus weeks of down time in my shop)

I made them ship it back and i went with the valeo 228 mm set up with south bend upgrade. That was last summer and still going strong. Zero noticeable difference in vibration and half the cost. I like Matt, great guy to deal with but his clutch source absolutely sucks and Luis there at clutch masters was extremely rude. I'm a shop manager and dealer for multiple lines of equipment and even more parts manufactures. I've never delt with someoene as inept as clutch masters. I hope Matt can find another clutch source. Would be nice to get a Whitbread flywheel alternative clutch posted on here.

The self adjusting pressue plate failed and lost it's clamping power. There was near zero pressure on the pressure plate when i removed it from the flywheel. Once i broke each pressue plate bolt loose i was able to screw them all out with my fingers with no resistance.
 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
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B5.5 Passat
He told me I could use the RS4 setup but on the phone was saying that the spacer thickness doesn't matter??

I already bought the clutch and should have it today, but If he doesn't get back to me soon I'm gonna have to return it and try something else. Quality or not I need my car, and I don't want to be held up waiting on some boutique flywheel/spacer.
 
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PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Per Matt clutchmasters is the only company that was willing to work with him when he developed his flywheel. He could only guess at tbe rs4 fitment. The clutch disk fits fine, its the pressure plate engagement that is the issue...or disengagement i should say. I dont think he has tried to make an rs4 fit he only knows what he thinks will work
 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
See Post #326. This may be the pilot bearing spacer Matt is talking about. Post #328 references a 5mm spacer between engine and tramsmission?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=378108&page=22
.
Per Matt clutchmasters is the only company that was willing to work with him when he developed his flywheel. He could only guess at tbe rs4 fitment. The clutch disk fits fine, its the pressure plate engagement that is the issue...or disengagement i should say. I dont think he has tried to make an rs4 fit he only knows what he thinks will work

I had actually sent him that post and he said he's gonna make me something similar.

He called me today after I submitted an order on his site, sounds like he's been pretty swamped lately.

He clarified my confusion a bit. I ended up ordering the 11.2mm spacer that's used on the RS4 01E 103 551 C

Can anyone confirm the stock bellhousing bolt part numbers? This is from the bentley manual, I'm guessing i should just get 11.2mm longer ones? Also what are the dowel pin part numbers, I think I'm gonna need longer ones too.



Hope this all works because it would be nice to have this documented on here for others to use this setup should it prove to be stronger.

Thanks!
 
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PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Im glad he's worked on an alternative since this summer. I'm betting i wasn't his first or last customer he lost due to clutchmasters.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Im glad he's worked on an alternative since this summer. I'm betting i wasn't his first or last customer he lost due to clutchmasters.
I'm pretty sure hes just going off his memory that a nearby shop had done this and he thought that was the plate they used off a 2.7L Audi.

I doubt hes worked on anything else...this was his initial reply to my first email.

Out of 65+ setups sold, I've had 3 warranty claims to the best of my memory. Of those, I distinctly remember one being heat abuse and another was oil contamination. I don't recall the exact details on the 3rd. A b5 rs4 clutch will go onto the flywheel, but you need to run a spacer plate and machine an extended pilot bearing to use that setup.
 

vwztips

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Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 6MQ 2011 BMW X5 35d
FWIW, when I did my Allroad conversion, I used the BHW motor, a Sachs SRE 240mm DMF set up and a DQT quattro gear box. With that set up I used a 5.5mm spacer and only inserted the needle bearing in the crank about 2/3 of the way in.
 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Well I got the 11.2mm spacer I ordered 013015551C, not realizing that this only has the 6 cylinder bolt pattern. Also found this post in another thread:

According to vagcat the 01e103551B 5,5mm spacer is found on all 1.9tdi 6 speed or atleast atj and avf engine in b5 and c5 bodies. 01e103551B that has only 4 cylinder bolt pattern was later replaced by 01x103551 and is 5,7mm it is a universal part that fits even 6 cylinder blocks. 01e103551a/c is 11,2mm thick and is only with 6 cylinder bolt pattern.
Looks like I gotta find a 5mm spacer then, there are a few 01x103551 on ebay for about $45

Still haven't found the part numbers for the bolts that people are using with the larger clutch stacks.

Also Matt is mia again, I ordered the pilot bearing spacer from him and he hasn't gotten back to me about it. I got his flywheel in but no spacer. so gotta figure that one out now =[
 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
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B5.5 Passat
So finally got a hold of Matt, talked about the spacer, and I mocked up what I thought would work and sent him a drawing of what I came up with. Hes gonna verify my measurements and test it on one of his flywheels there.

Since I got stuck with an extra DUK I'm actually able to mock everything up on the BHW engine that's going into my truck. Its basically just a little slug with a lip that will get held by the step down in the flywheels bore.

The 5.7mm spacer should be here tomorrow so i'll be able to see how much engagement the trans input shaft has.

Some pics of my prototype with the bearing and seal I'm using that was used in that other posts 6 speed swap:



















 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Oh boy, Matt made my spacer! I hope it works, I'm a little worried about the tolerances since stuff shrinks a bit when you print it but I'm hoping all the measuring and printing I did got me accurate dimensions for a final metal version. He tested it on a flywheel there and told me the larger od is about 2 thou under id of flywheel, and smaller diameter is a 7-8 tenths press fit into flywheel. He couldn't test the lengths due to not having a BHW crank/the bearing and seal I'm using.

Here are the pics he sent me. I'll keep y'all posted on how this works out. It's so cool I finally got a mechanical part I designed machined, so I'm very curious to see how well I did as an electrical minded guy. :D



 

d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Just wanted to update this thread,

Matt your flywheel seems good so far but your customer service is lacking in some areas. I get that you're a one man show, but if you didn't have a BHW crank nor any drawings for a pilot bearing spacer, you probably shouldn't have told me that you could do it. I only went the RS4 route because its a beefy clutch and you told me you wouldn't have any issues...but honestly whatever. I'm just glad it all worked out in the end, and props for even making the part to my drawing, it was spot on.

Unfortunately the spacer I had him make was too big and I had to have one of my friends whos a machinist shave a few thousandths off here and there, but after that everything fit great!! (Matt that updated drawing I sent you is also still too big, but you never replied after that so idk if you even looked at it lol) Guess I still need to work on a) How to measure things with calipers properly, and B) learning how to compensate for the shrinkage when you print things out of PLA.

I'll have my buddy make a few more now that we have a corrected drawing, if anyone wants one.

As to the clutch. It felt really weird at first on my way home from the shop, lots of play up top in the clutch pedal and some at the bottom before it bites. When I got home tho I noticed that the play up top minimized and realized that this was a self adjusting pressure plate. So I drove around a bit today and it feels much more normal but the bite point is still a little weird feeling, like it requires more release to bite than my old one. I'm guessing I'm gonna get used to it and once everything wears in together it'll feel more normal.

Also reverse is more difficult to shift into but from talking with Mike that might be because of that seal we put in, so maybe it'll get better once that softens up a bit.

So all in all, initial thoughts are that I would recommend this setup. Ill put some miles on it and update this down the road.

What's needed for this:

Matts Flywheel
RS4 Clutch : LuK 624303300
Longer Pilot Bearing: HK1522
Seal: G15x21x3A (might not even be needed)
Bell housing spacer: 01x103551 ***Make sure it DOES NOT end with an A***
My custom pilot spacer PM Me if you want one

Hope this helps others down the road. Danke!
 

dogdots

Vendor
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
...Just wanted to update this thread....

Curious why you didn't go with Southbend? I built 5 of these cars with DUK 5 speeds and never had an issue with SBC Stage 2 Endurance. Their customer service is top notch, Jon even built me a clutch while I waited (took 2 hours) once while driving through the area for business.

IIRC I used 30mm long needle pilot bearings on my conversions but it has been a few years since I did one.

Anyways, thanks for posting a complete list for your conversion, it will definitely help for anyone going the same route.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Curious why you didn't go with Southbend? I built 5 of these cars with DUK 5 speeds and never had an issue with SBC Stage 2 Endurance. Their customer service is top notch, Jon even built me a clutch while I waited (took 2 hours) once while driving through the area for business.

IIRC I used 30mm long needle pilot bearings on my conversions but it has been a few years since I did one.

Anyways, thanks for posting a complete list for your conversion, it will definitely help for anyone going the same route.
There were a few reasons but mainly at the time this all started I thought it would be quicker to order parts that didn't need to be reworked. Matt proved me wrong there....

Other thing was that I was able to order the clutch kit through FCP Euro which gives me a lifetime warranty on the clutch. I already broke a DMF and a clutch so at least if I break the clutch again I can have it warrantied down the road (still salty sachs was no help). I think matts flywheel is heavier than the Valeo one too so that's a plus.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Matts flywheel is heavier but i noticed zero difference in vibration on my bs deleted BHW when i went with the Valeo.
 
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