What can the 02J Trans Handle

[TDI Greg]

Hi guys.
I primarily want to know how many guys are able to use their 02J for sporty/spirited driving? It seems that if I try to heal toe (very hard because of throttle pedal position) or downshifting w/o clutching I end up grating gears 60% of the time. Has anyone else had success with this kind of driving is it me or is the trans limited to economy driving. What is the first thing to fail when an 02J is abused? Is there upgraded synchronizers that would help? Thanks for any opinions or input.

 

[oilhammer]

I would try just learning to drive "normally", and not trying to treat the car like something it really isn't. The 02J is a pretty good transmission under normal circumstances. I really cannot tell you what a pattern failure would be since I really just don't see enough problems with them to be anything worth noting.

Obviously if gears are grinding, you are not using the transmission properly.

LOTS of people, including me, have a LOT of miles on them with even modded engines... I even tow occasionally with mine. Nothing broken yet.

 

[Powder Hound]

Heel and toe, or other abusive shifting techniques are great for racing transmissions with straight cut gear teeth. The 02Js (and basically every other street transmission for the last oh, 80 years) don't have those. 02Js also don't have large heavy duty dog-tooth synchros that make shifting work under those abusive conditions, but make the shift 'clunk' a lot, which a racer doesn't really care about because he's busy trying to hold his line and clip the apex in the next turn while not getting passed.

And considering the cost of correcting worn synchronizers and clutch friction disks, it would be much better to wear brake pads than try to downshift all the time.

But, that's my opinion. For you, just take a little more time and have at it.

Cheers,

PH

 

[bl00tdi]

Heel-toe/rev-matched downshifting puts less stress on the synchros, not more. Better that than the average driver jamming it into 2nd around a corner with no regard for engine or road speed.

 

[Vince Waldon]

... which is why it's kinda weird that heel-and-toe is making the OP's tranny misbehave.

Should be making it easier, 'cause the syncros aren't really in the loop.

 

[KrashDH]

I don't heel-toe at all because of pedal position, but I rev match quite a bit in the car. Comes from having a performance clutch in the Cummins that's not designed for the reverse load using the engine puts on the clutch pack (downshifting). Habit.

So I rev match or float shift (no clutch involved) most of the time or whenever possible in the truck. The difference I notice with my car at least is you honestly have to time it better. When you bump the throttle, there's a delay in rpm jump. You have to be patient and wait for that delay then get up to the rpm where everything is spinning at the same time to get it in gear. I feel like you have to give the throttle more "bump" as well to get it up in the rpm and hit your mark, where a "blip" will get me where I need to be in the 5600.

That being said, done correctly, rev matching falls into gear extremely smooth on my transmission, but it's dependent on the operator (me!). This is all for downshifting. I have no need for "performance" shifting in the car. My Sigma 5 SS is sporty enough for me, and even in the Cummins with a short shifter and modified Hurst shift rod I'm running, you're not winning any races.

 

[Nero Morg]

I've literally never used heel toe. Matter of fact never heard of it until someone posted about it recently. But as a CDL driver, I've always rev matched, and I do the same when driving my tdi. Helps save them syncros and the clutch.

 

[TDI Greg]

Rev Match was the term I was missing. That is exactly what I want to do that ends in a coffee grinding scenario too much of the time. I have rev matched other transmissions in the past but this one, with the sluggish throttle blip characteristic, is a little harder. Hopefully the trans holds up til I can get the hang of it. Thanks for the input so far.

Just upping the engine out put doesn't make a sports car out of a jetta.

 

[KrashDH]

Rev Match was the term I was missing. That is exactly what I want to do that ends in a coffee grinding scenario too much of the time. I have rev matched other transmissions in the past but this one, with the sluggish throttle blip characteristic, is a little harder. Hopefully the trans holds up til I can get the hang of it. Thanks for the input so far.
Just upping the engine out put doesn't make a sports car out of a jetta.

What transmission fluid are you running?

 

[TDI Greg]

What transmission fluid are you running?

This oil https://www.amsoil.com/p/manual-transmission-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90-mtg/?code=MTGQT-EA
With this additive https://www.hotshotsecret.com/fr3/

 

[Dh4276]

This oil https://www.amsoil.com/p/manual-transmission-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90-mtg/?code=MTGQT-EA
With this additive https://www.hotshotsecret.com/fr3/

Running same fluid without the additive and have no problems shifting with clutch (even spirited driving) or without and speed matching up or down!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rrusse11]

The problematic "throttle position" requires a different approach.
Use your heel on the brake, reach with the toe for the throttle.
Like any rev matching technique this requires a lot of practice so
that it becomes second nature, and smooth.

Find an old vehicle with a non synchro gearbox, so you have to double clutch
ALL the time, up and down. That'll learn ya'.

 

[pkhoury]

Maybe a dumb question, but is there anything wrong with slowly letting off the clutch when I downshift? I never downshift and just dump the clutch. Also, I always try and rev match my diesels when I shift. I've even become somewhat adept at it on my tractors, which are NOT synchronized, though downshifting on the same takes some practice.

 

[oilhammer]

Heh, my Kubota tractor most certainly IS a syncromesh. It's great, you can drive it around just like a car. You cannot shift the secondary high/low transmission on the fly, however. That requires full stop. As does engaging the front axle assist.

The old Ferguson tractor requires some careful rev matches and shifts if you want to change gears, though, but usually by the time you'd find that sweet spot and get the transmission in gear, you've already slowed to a stop anyway.

The Ford 8N is similar... but the Farmall Super A I actually have no problem upshifting that one.

 

[jmodge]

In regards to the op’s original question, I can think of one inherent issue. It’s not in the tranny but on top of it. The shift tower bushing/bearing wearing out. It may not be relative in this case, but it doesn’t help

 

[pkhoury]

The old Ferguson tractor requires some careful rev matches and shifts if you want to change gears, though, but usually by the time you'd find that sweet spot and get the transmission in gear, you've already slowed to a stop anyway.

The Ford 8N is similar... but the Farmall Super A I actually have no problem upshifting that one.

Sometimes. I have 2 9Ns sitting in the driveway (guy I hired to put one back together flaked out twice, but that's another story). I primarily use a Ford 3400 (3000 series) and a 5900 (which is a budget version of the 5610). The 3400 has the first three gears a lot closer to one another, and then fourth appears to be quite a jump from third.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Pedal positions notwithstanding, you can heel/toe the 02J with no grinding. Done it a lot on the track. And if you heel/toe properly it's actually easier on the transmission than letting the engine speed up when you release the clutch.

These transmissions are super durable in my experience, as long as you don't abuse them. I ran twice stock power through mine for years. The 4th gear synchro in my Wagon's finally got weak at about 380K miles, and I had another newer transmission so I put it in.