What can I do to increase fuel economy??

puter

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Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
There are so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start.

1) Turbo kick in is _good_. You are getting more power without any added cost in fuel. This means you are burning more efficiently. Where in the world do you get that you don't want turbo?

2) Do _not_ drive under the speed limit. You become a road hazard. people have to avoid you, and it is just generaly obnoxious and self-centered

3) You do not lose 10% every 5mph, the curve is not linear. Where the hell did you get this number?

4) staying under 2k rpm will save you fuel economy, but don't come crying to me when your intakes are clogged, your turbo has blow by and is locking up, etc. etc. You will spend more on repairs than you will on fuel savings. If you want to do this then go get a gas car, stay away from tdi's.

5) Turning your engine off at traffic lights is a lousy idea and I have heard it so many times. The highest strain on the engine is during start. This means you will be wearing out your engine, your starter, and anything in that system simply to save one or two cents at most each tank. You'll be spending a lot more money on a new starter etc.

I don't do any of those things and I get over 850 miles on a tank, that comes to 54-56 mpg. I'm sorry, but this post had a whole lot of BS.

Schwabe said:
Seriously, recommending to increase power to increase fuel economy. I mean seriously.

here are some really proven tips, and currently I am pushing 70MPG (and that is in a 50/50 city/HWY mix):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hypermiling-driving-tips-ecodriving.php

What will give you the greatest fuel economy boost is the right-foot-mod.

Drive 5 miles under the speed limit (every 5 miles cost you 10% fuel efficiency)

Coast when ever possible.

Accelerate slowly.

Stay under 2,000RPM

Try to avoid the turbo to kick in - kick it at the end of the day to clean out the carbon.

Turn your engine off if the traffic light just turned red. Less fuel to start your car after 7 seconds then letting it idle.

Don't use your brakes - Look ahead in traffic and leave a nice buffer, when the brake light s ahead of you come on - coast in gear, that cut of the fuel supply.

You can easily gain 20-40% fuel economy over normal driving.

Before I followed any driving techniques I averaged 550 miles per tank on the above 50/50 mix with a 51 mile one-way commute, now easily over 750 per tank. No mod will give you similar results. Other then buying an efficient car from the get-go.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
urbo kick in is _good_. You are getting more power without any added cost in fuel. This means you are burning more efficiently. Where in the world do you get that you don't want turbo?
You don't get power from air, you get power from air/fuel.. If you are raising boost you are using more fuel.
 

Schwabe

Active member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Location
Grasonville, MD
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
puter said:
I went from 48 to 54 mpg.
Sorry, no bigger BS was ever posted anywhere then claiming a 15% fuel economy boost by getting a "performance" chip tuning.

puter said:
Turbo kick in is _good_. You are getting more power without any added cost in fuel. This means you are burning more efficiently. Where in the world do you get that you don't want turbo?
You are on a turbo diesel forum, are you SERIOUS????? Better not post ever again until you understand how a turbo works.

puter said:
You do not lose 10% every 5mph, the curve is not linear.
There is a "%" in my "rule-of-thumb" THEREFOR IT CANNOT BE LINEAR. No comment on that one, because that would be insulting.

puter said:
staying under 2k rpm will save you fuel economy, but don't come crying to me when your intakes are clogged, your turbo has blow by and is locking up, etc. etc. You will spend more on repairs than you will on fuel savings. If you want to do this then go get a gas car, stay away from tdi's.
I propably would stay away from a turbo if there really was an option. Intakes clogged???? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING about????? What does the intake have to do with any RPMs which happen AFTER the intake. The only thing that builts up is carbon. No repairs necessary ever.


puter said:
Turning your engine off at traffic lights is a lousy idea and I have heard it so many times. The highest strain on the engine is during start. This means you will be wearing out your engine, your starter, and anything in that system simply to save one or two cents at most each tank. You'll be spending a lot more money on a new starter etc.
Yeah, just don't keep up on new technology. Auto ON/OFF is only for dumb folks who try to save 2 cents on a tank, thats why all the large auto manufacturers are working on it.
 

n8ronJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Location
Niagara Frontier - Somerset, NY
TDI
2014 BMW 328d XDrive, 2003 Jetta GLS TDI 5speed Platinum Grey (sold), 2010 Jetta 6speed (bought back)
I asked a simple question and this thread is turns into a "who knows more about turbo diesels".

Schwabe - I can almost hear you screaming at your computer about how "idiotic" we all must be. There's a lot of data here on the boards, a lot of opinion - both good and bad, and a lot of facts. Read up.

And calling names? Are you in the 4th grade still? Come on...
 

Schwabe

Active member
Joined
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Location
Grasonville, MD
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Sorry, if I offended anybody, don't see where I called anybody names. I was first called out for "where the hell do I get those numbers" and "all the BS" I wrote.

Somebody asked about increasing fuel economy and the general tenor is to increase power, chip tuning etc. They all may have some effect on fuel efficiency, but hardly measurable by a daily driver. If a chip would give you a 15% better fuel economy, or say bump it from 50 to 57.5MPG or an extra 100 miles per tank for the convenience of a computer flash and maybe $800 or so, do you think this would be hush-hush and not front line news while people try to sell water turned to fuel scams all over the web?

My post was attacked first because I questioned how power increase (beneficial for FE or not) can be the standard recommendation on this board when somebody asks for better FE?
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
here is a list of driving techniques that have worked with a tdi to a claim of nearly 60 mpg lifetime.

Scwabe- I do not feel that your response was out of line, FWIW.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Schwabe said:
Somebody asked about increasing fuel economy and the general tenor is to increase power, chip tuning etc. They all may have some effect on fuel efficiency, but hardly measurable by a daily driver. If a chip would give you a 15% better fuel economy, or say bump it from 50 to 57.5MPG or an extra 100 miles per tank for the convenience of a computer flash and maybe $800 or so, do you think this would be hush-hush and not front line news while people try to sell water turned to fuel scams all over the web?
Just like diesels are all over the news? Oh wait, they're not.:(

Chip tuning involves changes that make TDIs no longer EPA compliant at the expense of power and/or economy.

Chip tuning for gas engines changes spark timing among other things, requiring higher octane fuel. May even make them non-EPA compliant too. Both of these would go over really well with the EPA and joe public:eek:
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
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Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Schwabe said:
Sorry, no bigger BS was ever posted anywhere then claiming a 15% fuel economy boost by getting a "performance" chip tuning.
I went from 48 to 52/3, that is a bit over 10%. How is that BS? I did not go as high as I could have either. That is also what most people are reporting.



Schwabe said:
I propably would stay away from a turbo if there really was an option. Intakes clogged???? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING about????? What does the intake have to do with any RPMs which happen AFTER the intake. The only thing that builts up is carbon. No repairs necessary ever.
I think you should get rid of your turbo and see what happens. I guarantee your fuel economy would go down.

Yes, intakes clogged. Go look it up. While your at it go find out what happens when you don't exercise your turbo vanes.


Schwabe said:
Yeah, just don't keep up on new technology. Auto ON/OFF is only for dumb folks who try to save 2 cents on a tank, thats why all the large auto manufacturers are working on it.
I would be fascinated to find out how much fuel you actually save killing your engine at a stop light, I bet it is a hell of a lot less as compared to the cost of the wear on the system.
 
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mittzlepick

Veteran Member
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Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
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2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
the diesel polo/lupo hybrid I read about ages ago shut it engine down at stops to conserve.
 

egibbys

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Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
1999 Jetta TDI GLS
n8ronJ said:
Advantages and disadvantages of egr delete? I've read it here a little but am not sure if it's something to consider.

On advancing timing - is this simple to do with vag-com? I don't have vag-com but found a local source thru the club here. If I use this guy - do I tip him? offer him money for the help? what's the protocol here?

Driving habits are certainly the #1 mileage gainer or loser. I've had my TDI for 10 months and gained 3-4 avg mpgs thru becoming a more concious TDI driver. Heck, I've started driving my wife's Jeep GC better.
I would like to go back to this question and get back on topic. Although watching you guys bicker back and forth is pretty funny. But it's getting to be too much. Start your own thread and have a battle. :D
 

puter

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Location
Tacoma, Washington
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2002 Jetta GLS
You do realize that the last post was a month ago right? :)

Advancing timing is very simple, there is even a thread about it (3-4 mpg is in the title, so that should help with searching).

I don't know of any disadvantages to an egr delete other than passing emissions inspections, and those are visual so it's possible to do a delete and pass inspection.

I think that answers all.
 

egibbys

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Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
1999 Jetta TDI GLS
Ya I did realize that. It's just I was reading this thread and it looked like I was going to get good information from it. Then it turned into a who knows more battle. And I guess I learned from that too. Just not the topic. haha. And I side with you in the argument. People who try to get the maximum mpg are a hazard to other motorists plus its really annoying. Oh I have a question for you. How are you able to change the Kermatdi chip on the fly? Is it with vag-com? or is there a switch on the dash? I'm getting one soon so I'm trying to get as much information as possible. thanks
 
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puter

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Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
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2002 Jetta GLS
Actually, they have a loader utility called the q-loader. You plug it into the OBD port. It's not really on the fly, the car has to be off etc. I don't change it much, I expect my clutch will start slipping when it gets cold and I"ll have to back off the chip, but other than that it's been great.

There was some discussion between myself and paul at kermatdi about possibly incorporating switching into the carputer application I created that reads data off the car and into a front end. My thought was to have a couple of buttons that you could define on the front end that would push the new tune to the car. That kinda just fell through tho, that's mostly my fault tho because I got busy and didn't really persue it.

They have their q-loader at www.kermatdi.com. I've been extremely happy with their service and their product. Really great people to work with.

If you're interested in the program I developed you can find it here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=206330

To use it you need a touchscreen (about $250) and a laptop or desktop PC, I used an old laptop with a broken keyboard. You also need about $100 in cabling and an analogue audio input for your car (I used specTrans, $65). And, of course, a vag cable.

All told I figure the entire carputer cost me $400 (not including vag cable) and a lot of time. Since I've already done the coding for you it shouldn't take you too much time to set it up. It's great to have the live mpg readout.
 

egibbys

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Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
1999 Jetta TDI GLS
hmm how much extra is the q-loader with the chip? They told me it would be about $400 for my car. I'm pretty sure the q-loader isn't included.

Oh and your program looks sweet. I would love to have that in my car. It would just cost too much.
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
My whole setup was $600, with unlimited tunes.

I think they may have the option of sending your ECU in, in which case you cannot switch to a different tune, and you cannot go back to stock (it is illegal to sell a chipped car). If you want to be able to go back to stock it costs about $250 for a second ECU, which you can then send to them and have that one programmed and swap it for your current one, that way you could swap back to go back to stock.

Also, if you find that your clutch slips (very likely) you won't be able to turn back your chip to prevent the slipping...you get to spending $800-$1000 for a new clutch that can handle the added torque. And, if you upgrade anything else in the future (clutch, nozzles, etc) you will have to get chipped again, I do not know if there is a discount for this but I doubt it.

In my opinion the q-loader is well worth the additional $300. For something like $550 you can get the q-loader and one tune (not unlimited), in which case you can freely go back to stock. If you choose to get a second tune then it costs you the difference between the unlimited plan and the single tune plan..and you get unlimited tunes from then on (basically there is no penalty for changing your mind). Very good company. :)
 

egibbys

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Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
1999 Jetta TDI GLS
I don't know if I should or not. That's quite a bit more. I am thinking that my clutch will slip since its the original with 197,000 miles on it.... But since I live about 30 mins away from them I guess when I go in to get my chip I'll ask them to sell me on the q-loader. And if they really think I should get it I probably will.

Is it really illegal to sell a chipped car?
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Your 99.5 LUK clutch should handle nozzles + a chip tune.

Mine handles 251ftlbs without issues, it also has almost 300,000 miles on it.

No, it's not illegal to sell a chipped car. If you are thinking of a chip, please get a set of nozzles first.
 

puter

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
LNXGUY said:
Your 99.5 LUK clutch should handle nozzles + a chip tune.

Mine handles 251ftlbs without issues, it also has almost 300,000 miles on it.

No, it's not illegal to sell a chipped car. If you are thinking of a chip, please get a set of nozzles first.
I believe it is illegal to sell a chipped car actually because they violate emissions laws. I have been told this by multiple sources. Whether or not it is enforced is questionable.

I do not know if the 99.5 clutch is different than a 2002 clutch, but if it is the same clutch then it will likely slip. Yours may not have slipped, but that would be the exception to the rule.

He does not have to get new nozzles if he gets the q-loader. He can upgrade his nozzles whenever he wants and if he wants and request the new tune...my experience is that they send the new tune back either same day or next day. it takes 5 minutes to switch a tune.
 

egibbys

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
1999 Jetta TDI GLS
LNXGUY said:
Your 99.5 LUK clutch should handle nozzles + a chip tune.
Mine handles 251ftlbs without issues, it also has almost 300,000 miles on it.
No, it's not illegal to sell a chipped car. If you are thinking of a chip, please get a set of nozzles first.
Just curious, why do you recommend getting nozzles first over a chip? The reason I want to get a chip right now is cause I want to get my hard start problem resolve. I'm planning on getting nozzles later but I just want to get the chip first so I don't have to get a new starter and battery in the long run. Oh and very impressive with the 300,000 miles. Original clutch too. Wow. Mine actually is showing signs of slipping. I am the third owner of my car so I don't know how it was previously driven.


puter said:
He does not have to get new nozzles if he gets the q-loader. He can upgrade his nozzles whenever he wants and if he wants and request the new tune...my experience is that they send the new tune back either same day or next day. it takes 5 minutes to switch a tune.
Boy I am lost. I really don't know anything about the different types of tunes. And how do you switch a tune.... haha I feel dumb.
 
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puter

Top Post Dawg
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Jun 19, 2007
Location
Tacoma, Washington
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
If you get a normal tune then you have to get another one to take advantage of larger nozzles.

If you get the q-loader then you can just email them and ask for another tune that takes advantage of it and they will email you in return.

he's recommending the nozzles first so that you don't have to pay for another tune, but you don't have to if you get the q-loader since you can get new tunes for free, without sending your ecu off.
 
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