What brand replacement tires to get???

[angryitalian]

I have an '03 Jetta Wagon with about 60K miles and am about due for some new rubber. The OEM tires have been great. Michelin MXV4 Energy 195/65 R15's I think?

I like the Michelins but I am cheap and don't want to pay that kind of money for new ones. I looked at some Toyo's yesterday which looked nice, they were an all-season economy radial type of tire with a 65K mile treadlife warranty. Nothing fancy, just a solid tire. The guy at the tire store said I needed an "H" rate tire, which is more performance/speed oriented.

I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks for the help!

 

[volmaniac]

i got some nokian i3s on our '02 golf gls last month and absolutely luv em. they ended up about $80 each on the rim out the door.

http://www.nokiantyres.com/passengercars_product_en?product=1170571&name=NOKIAN+i3

 

[DaveGaunt]

SEveral things to remember

The worst tire (cheapest) you can buy today is way better than the best you could buy ten years ago.

The DOT requires that tire dealers must replace tires with no lower speed rating than was OEM,so your dealer is right. Even though you do not drive a 120 MPH for two hours...

Next thing is how agressive the itre needs to be. I suspect most of your bad weather driving in Tennessee is wet. You will get better traction on cold, wet roads with all seasins with siping and silicone compound than you will with a summer tire, where the compound tend to get very hard an slippery under about 40 Deg. F.

I suggest you look for an offshore tire with lots of sipes and an all season rating.

Remember when you look at treadwear ratings, they are not regulated and are developed by the manufacturer alone. Thus, they do not compare well brand to brand.

I personally will not buy a tier not rated "A" for heat and traction, but that is up to you. My climate is different than yours, and of course I run snows in the winter.

Hope this helps.

 

[DaveGaunt]

Sorry, it was Georgia wasn't it? Oops. Well what I said applies even more there. You might want to make sure you get the "A" heat rated tire for that climate for sure.

 

[tdiguy308]

try visiting http://www.tirerack.com for options. I just installed these Yokohama Avid T4's and so far they are better than the stock michelin's I had...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...4&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&place=2

 

[tjl]

I have an '03 Jetta Wagon with about 60K miles and am about due for some new rubber. The OEM tires have been great. Michelin MXV4 Energy 195/65 R15's I think?

I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks for the help!

Given your criteria, another set of Michelin Energy MXV4+ (or the apparent successor, the S8 variety) in the OEM size and load rating of 91 is a reasonable choice. Be aware that the Michelin Energy MXV4+ in 195/65R15 comes in load ratings of 89 and 91; be sure to order the 91 load rated version (some people have reported that not following the load rating can result in worse tire life). The main drawback of this tire is that it is expensive.

A much less expensive low rolling resistance tire (used as an OEM tire) is the Continental CH95. Consumer Reports November 2003 rates it much lower, though, due to worse dry and wet braking (although they say it is good at handling). The third OEM tire, the Goodyear Eagle LS, has such bad comments on this forums, and an even lower rating in Consumer Reports, that it is not worth considering, since it also costs more than the Continental CH95.

Among other tires, the Falken Ziex ZE-512 is worth a look. It seems to have broadly similar characteristics as the Michelin Energy MXV4+, though a little better in performance charactertistics. However, its rolling resistance is higher (but not too bad, according to Consumer Reports, who rated it the best overall tire in the class). I recently got these tires, but have not had a good chance to measure fuel consumption compared to the Michelin Energy MXV4+, due to other changes in driving patterns (cold weather and carrying stuff on roof racks) that coincided with the tire change. However, the Falken Ziex ZE-512 is so much less expensive than the Michelin Energy MXV4+ that it will cost less over the lifetime of the tire if fuel economy is within 3mpg of the Michelin Energy MXV4+.

In these forums and elsewhere, the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H and BF Goodrich Traction T/A are highly regarded for performance characteristics, but the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H is fairly expensive, and people comment about losing significant amounts of fuel economy (2-5mpg, if I remember correctly). Therefore, the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H will likely be more expensive than the Michelin Energy MXV4+ over the lifetime of the tire, after adding in the additional fuel cost.

 

[Herm TDI]

I have an '03 Jetta Wagon with about 60K miles and am about due for some new rubber. The OEM tires have been great. Michelin MXV4 Energy 195/65 R15's I think?

I like the Michelins but I am cheap and don't want to pay that kind of money for new ones. I looked at some Toyo's yesterday which looked nice, they were an all-season economy radial type of tire with a 65K mile treadlife warranty. Nothing fancy, just a solid tire. The guy at the tire store said I needed an "H" rate tire, which is more performance/speed oriented.

I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks for the help!

The best tire that I've found (that compliments the A-4 suspension nicely and also provide a smooth quiet ride) are the Cooper Lifeliner SLE

 

[lildevildee]

I second the Nokian I3s. A bit noisier than the stock Michelins that came on my car but the handling in rainy conditions was such an improvement over the bad Michelins that I won't complain.

 

[oilhammer]

"I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance."

...you just answered your own question: get another set of your Michelins. They are worth every penny.

My 2004 Passat came with Continentals. I had the dealer swap them out for Michelins at PDI (swapped wheels with an unsuspecting 1.8t Passat ).

My 1998 Jetta came with Goodyear Eagle GAs. The dealer installed a set of Michelins there, too. I wouldn't buy the car with Goodyears, although I worked there at the time too so that was kinda easy.

My 1995 Golf GL had Goodyear Invictas...these are one of the worst tires in history. I had a set of Michelins waiting for me the next day at work. The Invictas were in the trash pile with 93 miles on them. Junk!

My 1991 Jetta diesel came with the Eagle GAs as well. I put up with 22k miles of that noise, then installed Michelin Rainforce (out of production). Been nothing but Michelins on it since then.

This from a guy who replaces, balances, and sees lots and lots of tires every day: Michelin tires are true, round, easy to balance, stay balanced, and stay round. They rarely cup up, or get choppy and noisy. They wear very evenly, even for extremely long distances (my last set on the '91 went 144k miles, and were still not at the wear bar!). They are quiet, even after 40+ miles, something many tires (especially on A4 chassis Volkswagens) cannot claim. Look around. Run your hand across the inside tread blocks of any brand tire on any A4 chassis Volkswagen with 20+ miles on them and you'll see (feel) what I mean. The Michelins will NOT do that. The Energy, Harmony, S8 are all fantastic tires.

 

[compu_85]

Also, look at the Hydroedge's. I have been very pleased with mine. They have a lower speed rating, though. But wet performance is excellent!!!

-J

 

[tjl]

This from a guy who replaces, balances, and sees lots and lots of tires every day: Michelin tires are true, round, easy to balance, stay balanced, and stay round.

Would you say that Michelin's cheaper brands (BF Goodrich and Uniroyal) have similar qualities?

 

[volmaniac]

I second the Nokian I3s. A bit noisier than the stock Michelins that came on my car but the handling in rainy conditions was such an improvement over the bad Michelins that I won't complain.

you got i3's? kewl, i thought you got the wr's and i was still the only a4 i3 guinea pig here. i picked the nokians over the $110 michelin oems because i thought they would do well in cool/cold rainy conditions (we only get snow a few days a year in middle tennessee), they have a treadlife rating of 630 and cost about 2/3rds of the michelins.

here is more info on the i3's from the website.

Top-quality handling characteristics

Nokian i3 includes numerous innovations and features that have proven to be excellent in UHP (ultra high performance) tyres designed for extremely demanding high-speed driving.

Nokian i3 is an inside-outside tyre, meaning that the inner and outer surfaces differ from one another. This is a feature that has become increasingly common in UHP tyres. The rigid shoulder design on the outside and the wide grooves on the inside make the tyre easier to handle and improve its stability.

Resistant and safe pioneer


Nokian i3 maintains a good grip in rainy and cool conditions. The full silica composite (Nordic cool silica compound) is designed for Nordic conditions. The tyre maintains its grip properties in cold spring mornings and in the cool early autumn, even when temperatures drop below 10 degrees centigrade.

The tyre features three prominent main grooves, and lateral grooves open to the side, giving the tyre excellent hydroplaning properties.

The acoustically optimised tread pattern and noise cavities in the grooves dampen tyre noise.

The ecological nature of the Nokian i3 is particularly evident in two features. Similar to other Nokian tyres, no high aromatic oils are used in the manufacturing process. The tyre is also economical: it rolls easily and consumes little fuel.

 

[oilhammer]

Would you say that Michelin's cheaper brands (BF Goodrich and Uniroyal) have similar qualities?

Some of the higher end BFGs and Uniroyal are pretty good. I have a set of LT-spec 14" Uniroyal Laredos on my Mazda pickup because I saw how well they were as OE equipment on many 3/4 trucks when I was at an independant. However as far as balancing and trueness I still think the Michelin-branded tires are the best. Since Michelin really doesn't flood the market with low-grade knock-offs and bottom-feeder tires, they allow BFG to carry that banner. However for 4x4 trucks, the BFG All Terrain and its derivatives are a very good tire. Every bit as good as the Michelin LTX M/S in every respect for a few less dollars.

 

[lildevildee]

you got i3's? kewl, i thought you got the wr's and i was still the only a4 i3 guinea pig here.

I did get the I3s but you are still the only A4 guinea pig since mine are on my A5 StElmo got the WRs for his A4 but he was going to be needing the extra traction while driving across the country.

 

[hagar]

How are the BF Goodrich Momentum Tires or the Bridgestone Turanza LST tires as far as low rolling resistance, tire life, roadnoise and wet grip? I live in SC so do not need snow or winter tires. I have these tires on my 2 Jetta TDI's, but they will probably need replacement within the next 30,000 miles on both cars.

 

[tjl]

How are the BF Goodrich Momentum Tires or the Bridgestone Turanza LST tires as far as low rolling resistance,

Generally, tires used as OEM tires on new cars tend to be low rolling resistance. For other tires, if you are not able to find reviews from users or magazines, it is basically a guess. Consumer Reports does do rolling resistance in some of their tire tests (typically in November issues), although they list the ratings in their usual dot format instead of giving a % fuel economy penalty.

 

[angryitalian]

Thanks to all for the advice! My stock Michelin's have been great, and I'm confident a set of new ones would be just as good. However, the drawback is price.

I've looked at Tire Rack and seem to be leaning towards the ContiTouring Contact CH95's. They seem to have the characteristics I want, but at a good price.

The wildcard for me are the Toyo Spectrum's my local tire dealer showed me. Unfortunately, they are not sold on Tire Rack and I can't find any reviews for them. Only basic info. on their website. The reason I am considering them is I had a set on my old company van, and they performed well and lasted long even though they were really beat on hard every day.

 

[Beeble]

I tried Pirellis for a while, and also had a set of Goodyears on my Toyota van. The Pirellis were all junk. After three sets, I finally got the message and quit buying them. They would develop a thumping noise after 10k miles or so, and driving them afterwards was nervewracking.

The Goodyears were OK, though I found that the models changed so fast that I had to buy a mismatched tire when I got a sidewall puncture.

So, I'm back to Michelins again. I have never had a bad Michelin. They're durable and pretty quiet and completely reliable. In my experience, they're worth the "extra" money because you get what you pay for in longevity and reliability.

 

[tjl]

Thanks to all for the advice! My stock Michelin's have been great, and I'm confident a set of new ones would be just as good. However, the drawback is price.

I've looked at Tire Rack and seem to be leaning towards the ContiTouring Contact CH95's. They seem to have the characteristics I want, but at a good price.

The wildcard for me are the Toyo Spectrum's my local tire dealer showed me. Unfortunately, they are not sold on Tire Rack and I can't find any reviews for them. Only basic info. on their website. The reason I am considering them is I had a set on my old company van, and they performed well and lasted long even though they were really beat on hard every day.

Are the Toyo Spectrums significantly less expensive (per treadwear) than the Continental CH95? Do they also have a load rating of 91? Do you know whether they are low rolling resistance (if not, the extra fuel use could make the tires much more expensive over the life of the tire; indeed, the worst rolling resistance tires probably eat up enough fuel over their lifetime to pay for an entire set of Michelin Energy MXV4+ tires)? You may want to search for reviews of performance and comfort characteristics on other on-line tire shops like 1010tires.com or whatever.

If you go with the Continental CH95, be sure to get the version with the load rating of 91, if they offer both 91 and 89.

 

[angryitalian]

I checked some online reviews for the Toyo's and they seemed to get pretty favorable results. They only have a load rating of 89 though, not 91. Does that really matter? Also, They are rated an "A" for traction and a "B" for temp. Does the B matter as well? It is also only "T" rated for speed. My OEM Michelins are "H" rated, which my dealer recommends replacing with another "H" rated tire.

I also looked at Toyo's website and couldn't find anything about whether they are low rolling resistance or not. Maybe my local dealer knows?

Also, the Toyo weighs only 18lbs./tire vs. 19lbs. for the Michelin. Does 1 lb./tire make any difference?

 

[tjl]

I checked some online reviews for the Toyo's and they seemed to get pretty favorable results. They only have a load rating of 89 though, not 91. Does that really matter? Also, They are rated an "A" for traction and a "B" for temp. Does the B matter as well? It is also only "T" rated for speed. My OEM Michelins are "H" rated, which my dealer recommends replacing with another "H" rated tire.

T = 118mph, H = 130mph. Car companies spec speed ratings based on the (sometimes governed) maximum speed of the car. Note that H-rated tires typically have ratings of A,A or AA,A, rather than the A,B that you mention. The lower speed rated tires may have longer tread life and/or lower initial price.

Some people have reported that lower than spec load rated tires tend to wear out more quickly than they should.

Also check the maximum pressure rating on the tires. The maximum pressure on the sidewall should be at least as high as the highest pressures listed for the car (look behind the fuel door or the driver's door jamb; note that a4 platform cars typically have full load recommended pressures higher than the 35psi that is common, so you likely need tires that take 44psi or 51psi maximum).

Tires that are low rolling resistance typically are marketed as such (e.g. Michelin Energy MXV4+, or the EcoPlus label on the Continental CH95) or are commonly found as OEM tires on new cars.

 

[tsterkel]

The real scoop, from independent sources

Everyone makes good points.

However, in keeping with my history of challenging anectodal endorsements, I would like to point out that there are currently only two independent sources of tire data easily available. One is Consumer Reports and the latest Car and Driver.

It is important to note that anecdotal endorsements, by necessity, are on "older tires," and do not reflect the newer rubber formulations and tire structures.

Car and Driver's (CAD) test is performance biased and is legitimate for performance choices. (The first such test since their 1989 issue) It puts Michelin way down on the list and puts Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 on top. The Continental ContiSportContact 2 surprised the testers as it was not tops in everything, but was good in everything, and thus became number 2. You will be well advised to add in the tread wear rating, as these tend to have low tread wear lifetime.

Consumer Reports (CR) is more economy and safety biased and thus comes up with different conclusions. Note that the specific results are very similar, but the conclusions differ due to biases. The big attraction of Consumer Reports is that it provides "sub-ratings" of wet and dry traction, rolling resistance, etc. allowing you to apply your own biases to the choice. There are 3 sets of ratings potentially relevant. "all season" "performance" and "ultra-performance"

Top in the "all season" are Goodyear Assurance TripleTred and Michelin X, with other Michelin further down on the charts. Winter ratings tend to run opposite of the other 3 seasons, a phenominum which is well known to far northern tier drivers. Best to get highly rated snow/ice tires for that season. Using the CR chart and applying my biases for ride and cheapness, I would buy

Hankook Mileage Plus II H725.



Top in the "performance all season" is
Falken Ziex ZE 512 which also remains my pick after applying my biases. Except for rolling resistance, it beats Michelin hands down. And at 1/2 the price! To add my anecdotal, I have used the Falken, and I love them.




Top in the "ultra performance" closely matches Car and Driver's conclusions. This should not surprise anyone, and legitimizes both testing regimums. Of course, why anyone would think that their TDI NEEDS "ultra performance" is a good question and left for another thread.


On TireRack. I find it useful in identifying competing brands within my interest range. However, it is too mushy on performance/safety/economy issues to allow an informed decision. GO TO CR OR CAD for this data.



personal conclusion. It is not clear why <$70 tires "all season" or "performance" tires are not adequate for TDIs, given the reality of how we drive them.


hopefully this helps.
terry

I have an '03 Jetta Wagon with about 60K miles and am about due for some new rubber. The OEM tires have been great. Michelin MXV4 Energy 195/65 R15's I think?

I like the Michelins but I am cheap and don't want to pay that kind of money for new ones. I looked at some Toyo's yesterday which looked nice, they were an all-season economy radial type of tire with a 65K mile treadlife warranty. Nothing fancy, just a solid tire. The guy at the tire store said I needed an "H" rate tire, which is more performance/speed oriented.

I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks for the help!

 

[oilhammer]

I have an '03 Accent that the in-laws drive...the Hancook tires that came on it are absolutely horrible tires. At 12k miles they are worn funny, make odd noises, and have godawful traction any time, any weather, any temperature. Sad that the Accent was the ONLY Hyundai in 2003 that didn't have Michelins as standard equipment

They will be replaced in the spring with new tires, I'm afraid for their safety, they are that bad.

 

[tsterkel]

I have an '03 Jetta Wagon with about 60K miles and am about due for some new rubber. The OEM tires have been great. Michelin MXV4 Energy 195/65 R15's I think?

I like the Michelins but I am cheap and don't want to pay that kind of money for new ones. I looked at some Toyo's yesterday which looked nice, they were an all-season economy radial type of tire with a 65K mile treadlife warranty. Nothing fancy, just a solid tire. The guy at the tire store said I needed an "H" rate tire, which is more performance/speed oriented.

I am interested going from most to least important in long treadlife, low rolling resistance, OEM size, comfort/quietness, and handling, not so much performance.

Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks for the help!

Been running Falkens for 25K, purchased after they outclassed all the competition in Consumer's Reports. No issues, reasonable tread wear. Starting to do 5K rotations as I have access to a lift. I can state that the Michelins energies are smoother and less harsh, but the Falkens at less than 1/2 the price are more precise and grippy in dry and wet. (geee, is that what Consumer Reports said duh, yep!
My next tires are very likely to be Falkens, I can handle the slight addition of road noise.

 

[Borborygmi]

I recently swapped my front and rear tires, and inspected my brakes. At 30,000 miles I was pleased. Plenty of rubber and pads.

I don't have an opinion about tires, but the OEM Michelins seem to be holding up well.

 

[reflextdi]

I bought new tires a month ago and couldn't get that size in Michelin Hydroedge or Goodyear Triple Treads - backordered across the country on both counts, I was told by a couple of places. I ended up with BFG Traction TA's which have been really good.

 

[TDIpurdue]

I got BFG traction TA's this past november. They have handled spetacularly, great grip in both snow and rain (we got a 10" blizzard and I never even worried about getting stuck) road noise isnt bad at all. comming from the Eagle LS they are heavenly

 

[tsterkel]

check out http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=131310

 

[Rob Mayercik]

I checked some online reviews for the Toyo's and they seemed to get pretty favorable results. They only have a load rating of 89 though, not 91. Does that really matter? Also, They are rated an "A" for traction and a "B" for temp. Does the B matter as well? It is also only "T" rated for speed. My OEM Michelins are "H" rated, which my dealer recommends replacing with another "H" rated tire.

I also looked at Toyo's website and couldn't find anything about whether they are low rolling resistance or not. Maybe my local dealer knows?

Also, the Toyo weighs only 18lbs./tire vs. 19lbs. for the Michelin. Does 1 lb./tire make any difference?

If you want to go with Toyo, look at the Proxes TPT - has the 91H that matches the OEM tires, and while slightly more expensive, seem to wear amazingly well.

I have the TPTs on right now, and with about 46,000 miles on them, they seem to be wearing like iron. Grip is good, and they still knife through standing water effortlessly. I am getting a little noise, but I think that's because I missed a rotation interval once. I wouldn't say that they are anywhere near as good in snow/ice as a dedicated snow tire, but they seem to be at least as competent as the GYs that came on the car from the factory (unlike many folks here, I must have gotten a good set of GYs - got 54K miles out of them, and they seemed to handle ok).

Barring something bizarre happening (like spontaneous self-destruction), I'd definitely buy the TPTs again. Of course, I have to wear out the set I have first.

Rob

 

[d2305]

I only got 25k out of my Continentals. I bought a Fuzion, what a terrible, loud tire. I need to wear them out ASAP.