Wet behind the front seats and more

AlanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
We may have found the cause of the wet/puddles behind fronts seats.
Note: the front carpet also damp. After pulling up front side of carpet the foam is sopping wet!
After doing the blend door, I never replaced the front passenger and rear passenger seats.
Yesterday, decided to remove plastic passenger side molding on floor, to pull carpet back.
This is what was found the floor pan around drain grommet completely rusted
Big whole.
Could splashing from under car have loaded enough water to completely saturate the front and rear floor pans?
Short of welding, which I dont have; We are thinking of doing por15 Floor pan and trunk kit treatment
Still have to check other side grommets
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h46/alanb814/Passat10_zps6cqioncb.jpg[/URL]

 

RoseBud68

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Location
PSL FL
TDI
'99 mk3 Jetta 1.9
We may have found the cause of the wet/puddles behind fronts seats.
Note: the front carpet also damp. After pulling up front side of carpet the foam is sopping wet!
After doing the blend door, I never replaced the front passenger and rear passenger seats.
Yesterday, decided to remove plastic passenger side molding on floor, to pull carpet back.
This is what was found the floor pan around drain grommet completely rusted
Big whole.
Could splashing from under car have loaded enough water to completely saturate the front and rear floor pans?
Short of welding, which I dont have; We are thinking of doing por15 Floor pan and trunk kit treatment
Still have to check other side grommets


Dont think there enough under splash to sock the carpet like that. Your leak is coming else where. Is this a B4 or A3?
 
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rocketscience

Active member
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Location
Olympia WA
TDI
96 B4v Passat TDI Wagon
I went through that a few years ago. I had several holes with black sealant over them that I didn't notice when I bought the car, and a couple sheet metal patches, all of the spots rusting badly. Found several leaks including the sunroof, cabin filter (lots of crap lodged in that area daming up water), door seals (remedied by adjusting the doors, I still get some water in through these though I think they just need to be replaced) and of course the big holes in the bottom. You can tell if the doors are leaking by pulling the molding and looking for streaks in the dust. I gutted the car and wire wheeled as much of the rust as I could and sanded everything, including the areas underneath that were near any rust holes. I sprayed rust converter on the rusty spots that were still solid metal, used POR epoxy putty on the longer seams by the transmission tunnel that were rusted through and patched the holes with painted galvanized steel sheet metal, putting a thick bead of body sealant (clear urethane sealer from a body shop) around the outside edge and using self tapping screws up into the floor pan. On the inside I covered the screws and screw holes with the same sealant as well as any exposed edges that might rust and repainted the whole floor with black enamel tractor paint. I sprayed the bottom with 2 or 3 coats of underliner. It was a long process but it's held up pretty darn well, I pull everything out and check it once a year or so (good time to give the carpet a deep clean at the car wash).

I ditched that thick foam under the carpet. If you have any leaks that stuff is the worst, it'll hold water forever.
 
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Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Unless that hole was in direct alignment with the front wheel with the car going straight down the road I doubt that enough water could be thrown up there to completely saturate the padding. I'm sure there would be some wetness but not completely saturated pads on that side.

Since it all has to come out now anyway you can start running the hose over the windshields and roof to see where it's coming in.

Steve
 

wyopel

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Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
Strange...the same exact thing happened to my B4V on Monday. Soaking wet behind the driver seat. I figured the kids dumped a water bottle or something...but no water bottle and the weathertech mat was not wet so it was coming in from somewhere else. I suspect the door did not get closed all the way and it some how channeled down the door jam and pooled. I can't imagine that much water could get in to that spot from a hole underneath.
 

AlanTDI

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Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
I didn't think it would be a one leak problem.
Next I have to pull the console off again, recently did blend door fix.
Is new replacement door weather stripping still available for the B4? and who sell it?
Will have to do the garden hose fake rain
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Check the gasket on the cabin filter housing.

Here's a tip told to me by a body shop owner. He got the tip from an old glass guy.

Shake talcum powder, baby powder, etc on the outside if the car where you suspect the leak.

Get into the car with an air hose and start blowing around any suspect areas. You'll see the powder blow away when you found your leak point.

-Todd
 

turbodieseldyke

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Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Location
Free Mustache Rides
TDI
98 jetta
Class action ambulance chasers have been advertising on tv that talc-based powders may cause ovarian cancer. So if you do this trick, make sure there aren't any ovaries downwind from you.

Sounds like a good tip though.
 

lisab4

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Location
Belgium
TDI
1996 Passat B4 1.9 TDI
It's a weak spot of the type. I've broken several B4 wrecks and restored mine. Almost all had that spot in the rear passenger side rusted through. Driver's side was clean.
 

206danebmx

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Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2002 jetta TDI wagon
I've been going through this same exact issue and am almost fed up and ready to sell mine.

I repaired my moisture barriers in the doors and am seeing if that did the trick (seems to so far). The foam under the front footwells are completely soaked on my car. So if you ditched the foam under there did you put anything else in place of it? Did you notice an increase in cabin noise?

I think those grommet things in the floorboards "could" be a leak source but as others have said it doesn't seem that much water could make it in there.

I have checked my hood cable area and cabin filter intake with no sign of a leak there, and all drains.
 

rocketscience

Active member
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Location
Olympia WA
TDI
96 B4v Passat TDI Wagon
I didn't replace the foam with anything. I considered putting some rubber mat material down there just to protect the paint on the floor more but didn't actually do it. My car hasn't ever been that quiet road noise-wise so no, I didn't really notice a difference.
 

AlanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
continuing on.....
looks like the drivers side front sunroof tubing is leaking into the interior
how can we get to the tubing?, removed lots of trim to get carpet out
removed "A" pillar plastic, can't see the tubing
Will removing the fender find it?
seems like the tube may be two parts, may be separated at the grommet at base of "A" pillar
Thanks for all the help so far
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Headliner needs to be removed or dropped a bit. The tube is 2 pieces, runs down the A pillars and dumps into the fenderwell.

-Todd
 

wyopel

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
So your working theory is that a leak in the sun roof is traveling down the A pillar and getting under the carpet behind the drivers seat? Or are you saying the tube is damaged (clogged) and needs to be repaired/replaced...the water has found a path to under the carpet.

FYI
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/sunroof-drain-clog-repair-recall-on-vw-audi/

Another similarity with my issue...I too just did the blend door fix. Is it possible something got jostled in the dash and is allowing water in some how? Seems strange water would end up in that spot.

Let me know what you find out. No matter how hard I try, every time I touch a piece of the old plastic trim pieces in this car it seems like something breaks and never quite goes back together well. I really hope to avoid having to mess around with a bunch of trim.
 

ToddA1

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Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I didn't theorize anything. Clogged or separated drains have been proven to leak into the interior.

Unless you're running the AC, I doubt the blend door fix caused anything. Clear your evaporator drain if you are running it. Mine was clogged with foam, and I would hear sloshing as the condensate up. It would eventually leak onto the floor.

-Todd
 

206danebmx

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2002 jetta TDI wagon
I thought my leak was related to my door vapor barriers but that did not fix it. I ripped out the drivers side carpet and foam yesterday and already this morning saw water dripping down from near the front drivers side (kind of right behind the fuse panel. Who knows, maybe the hood cable release, or the windshield seal???

Gonna test again tonight with a hose.

For the record I don't have a sunroof either.

Once it rains again I will be able to see if any water is coming in through those rubber grommet plugs in the floor.

Chris
 

AlanTDI

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Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
again continuing on with floor flooding
[/URL][/IMG]
This is the view looking up from groung up the drivers side fender
See the drain tubing.
I can move it i and out, apparently there is a break some where in the door pillar
Trying to lower headliner to see if there is access to find problem
Another idea we came up with is the block off that drivers side front drain,
and let any rain water drain from the other three drain ports?
Sound like it could work?
Yes, quite a few plastic trim piece are brittle and did crack
Again thank you TDI'ers for the help
Alan
 

ToddA1

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Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
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'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
If you park on an incline, that may pose an issue.

-Todd
 

AlanTDI

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Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
So apparently, the hose got disconnected at the point between the bottom of the A pillar and behind the dash.
Impossible to reconnect them?
We pushed a wire from the top, under headliner and another wire up the tubing
from the fender well.
Still figuring out how the join them up to pill a smaller diameter hose (maybe fish tank tubing) from the top to fix the problem.
Any suggestions?
Can feel the flaring on the lower tubing, had enough to tonight
Thank you
 
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ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
It's been a while since I dealt with the tubing, so the details are hazy.

Iirc, everything is a slip joint, sealed with fabric tape. It would probably be best to pull a single length of new tubing and use an actual clamp at the sunroof frame.

I estimate the tubing to be around .25" - .375" diameter. Should be easy to find at a hardware store.

-Todd
 

AlanTDI

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Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
That's what we are thinking, I'm getting to old for this my son does the heavy lifting, I basically watch
We want to have a safety wire/line because the turn at the firewall, one way leaks into car, the other down the and out the fender.
With heavy rain expected Thursday, will park under station to go into city for work and under my car port at home
Thanks, will keep everyone posted
 

wyopel

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Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
Pulled trim off...dropped headliner and pulled out the carpet. Sunroof tubes seem to be fine on mine. But the windshield is definitely leaking. The foam under the carpet was completely saturated...even though the leak does not seem to be particularly bad. The only thing I can think of is that the foam has been soaking up water for a long time and we only just noticed it because it was finally saturated. It has been a really wet winter in the Pacific Northwest.
 

AlanTDI

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Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
The wetness had gone on for years. So has the blend door problem
After we got the motivation, (after turning in the 2012 Sportswagon Dec 7 ,2016:(),I put the 96 back on the road. Was sitting in driveway for about a year.
The blend door fix was amazing heat in NY in the winter:)
Tracked a major leak, pulled apart the interior trim to get to carpet. what a pita
The foam under the carpet was sopping wet, really thick stuff and super heavy with water.
We poured water in all 4 corners of the sunroof, the front drivers side drained into the car. and traveled under welded floor parts to i guess the lowest part, the passenger rear feet area, where it rusted around rubber plug.
The drain tubing as reported by others is a two part hose slip joint held together with tape, that apparently separated because we can pull both in opposite directions (have not pulled it out yet).
Before pulling out the tubing I am trying to pull a lead wire from the headliner to the small hole in the fender, (it keeps traveling the wrong direction at the fender where is can go into the proper direction or inside the car), as to pull a complete length of hose/tubing through and connect to drain port in sunroof.
Then continue to drive with gutted interior to see if that was in fact the only source of the leak.
I have been parking under car port, and under the tracks at the LIRR station, and trying not to take it out in the rain. Once we get a non- fridged weekend, we can continue.
 

PB_NB

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Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
I had a weird problem with my mK2 and water pooling behind the front seats.

Turned out to be the door drains got plugged with broken glass after a crackhead smashed the side window. The water got in the door and spilled over into the cabin.

Fixed it by cleaning out the door drains.

If your car was broken into and the glass bits were not cleaned up, maybe that is an area to look.
 

206danebmx

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2002 jetta TDI wagon
I resolved at least one of my leaks, turned out to be related to the grommet pass through where the hood release cable goes through the firewall. I thought I had checked it prior, but it definitely was the source of my leak.

Whats funny is the grommet wasn't popped in all the way into the sheet metal and the previous owner (ugghh) just covered it in RTV or something. I took it apart and popped the grommet in, and boom leaks gone.

Also I didn't notice any leaks at the large rubber grommets in the floorpans at 70mph in heavy rain.

I still need to investigate my passenger side cause it is also wet.

Hope this helps someone as it caused me lots of frustration and hours trying to dry out the foam crap below the carpet.

Chris
 

wyopel

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Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
So I know i have leak in the windshield but after driving for several days without carpet or foam, it just seem that there must be another leak somewhere...seemed like way too much water coming in to just be the windshield leak.:p
There was also quite a bit of water around the plugs in the floorboard so I started poking around. There is coating of some sort...looks like bed liner coating. It was going over the plugs. Water seems to be getting under this stuff so I chipped out around plug to inspect. Very wet. Is this coating stock? It had an edge on it that made it look like it was "meant" to be there...but still seems a bit odd to me. Anyway water is either seeping under it or coming from under car...or both. Seems like the best thing to do is pull this stuff up and let it dry out. Any thoughts?
 

AlanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Location
Long Island NY, relocating to Louisiana next week
TDI
1996 Passat wagonTDI, 02 jetta sedan, on the dark side 2017 Rav4
Up date,
Found leak from windshield , sealed all around windshield, that solved drivers side.

Still leaking on passenger side front, will re check and seal around cabin filter near firewall.
Still driving with no seats and carpet
 
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