Weak Brakes

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Hello all,

On my 2005 Golf, I recently started to notice that I have to push the brake pedal harder for sudden stops than I used to. I find myself giving more stopping distance as it feels that the brakes are overall weaker than they used to be. Any thoughts on what could be the cause?

Thanks!
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
oh, old worn down pads... boiling fluid... weak vacuum... neglected system components.
traditionally when breaking becomes an issue in any way shape or form, we take the tires off and CHECK them and think back when was the last time i changed the fluid? if that isnt the issue (its very quick to look at) usually vacuum assisted breaking is suspect but seeing as you have a gradual issue, my hunch is neglect / worn components.
 

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Thanks for the replies. I took off the wheels and looked at the brakes. Pad thicknesses including backing plates range from about 10 to 14 mm. Right passenger side pads are about a mm thinner than corresponding drivers side except the outside front passenger pad which was at 10 mm compared to the outside front drivers side pad at 13 mm. Brake pads and rotors were last changed about 90,000 miles and 12 years ago so they do have some time on them. 173,000 miles on the car. Brake fluid was last changed in August 2020 but only about 6,000 miles ago due to less driving during the pandemic. Brake fluid reservoir is full at top arrow. Do you think it is due for new pads and rotors? Thanks!
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
your pads are at half an inch in thickness at 90K miles of use... 12 years.....
OK.... thats extreme
typically good pads and rotors last about 30K. you must never drive
anyways.... it could be a glazing issue.
if you have that much pad and rotor left.. take them off, and deglaze the rotors and skim the surface of the pads.
it sounds like you do NOT heat them up enough when you drive and thus have a glazed issue.
Fluid should be changed once a year at that little use to prevent buildup from infrequency in pedal travel.
 

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Yes, not much driving on this car in the last few years so I agree it could be related to that. The original brakes were more worn down when I replaced them 12 years ago. The ones that are on there now are ceramic and make much less brake dust. Thanks for the tips!
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
120 grit and some wd40
Take rotor off. Go to town.
No need to go down to fresh metal. Just scuff up the glaze like 50%
Degrease with brake parts cleaner really well.
Drag the pads over some fresh 120 grit on a flat surface. Just scuff them up a bit.
Reassemble and bleed with new fluid.
If the rotors have deep ridges on them do the best you can.
Go do a bed in procedure.
3 stops from 30 to 10 as fast as you can. Then 3 more at 50 to 10. Do not let the car stop at all. Keep driving for 5 minutes to cool them off. Do not come to a full stop at any time during this.

Should do the trick
 

03TDICommuter

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Location
So. Cal
TDI
01' NB, 5spd
Did you check for vacuum leaks to your booster? A weak vacuum will cause what you're experiencing (hard pedal, having to press harder, weak brakes). A telling sign is if your braking is harder/weaker when pressed twice in rapid succession.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
your pads are at half an inch in thickness at 90K miles of use... 12 years.....
OK.... thats extreme
typically good pads and rotors last about 30K. you must never drive
anyways.... it could be a glazing issue.
if you have that much pad and rotor left.. take them off, and deglaze the rotors and skim the surface of the pads.
it sounds like you do NOT heat them up enough when you drive and thus have a glazed issue.
Fluid should be changed once a year at that little use to prevent buildup from infrequency in pedal travel.
If you are only getting 30k out of a set of brakes on a mk4 Volkswagen then you must be extremely hard on brakes.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Did you check for vacuum leaks to your booster? A weak vacuum will cause what you're experiencing (hard pedal, having to press harder, weak brakes). A telling sign is if your braking is harder/weaker when pressed twice in rapid succession.
I agree with this, likely loss of vacuum assist.
 

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
I agree with this, likely loss of vacuum assist.
Thanks. I’ll check into it. The brake pedal feels normal. It doesn’t feel hard. I’m just getting less stopping power. So I need to press down harder/farther especially noticeable for a quick stop or going down a steep slope.
 

Mpaw

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Europe
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion, T5 2.5 5cyl
One question is: when you keep pumping the pedal does it get harder? (The pedal I mean) I understand if it's spongy or gets harder the oftener you press then you have some leak (air intake) into your hydraulic system. So find the leak ;-)
VW claim brake fluid should be changed every two years if not changed for repairs. (https://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/brake-fluid-and-clutch-fluid-service.36237/#post-170349).
Since I lived in Germany I change my wheels twice a year (summer - winter) and it's well worth it. Each time I change them, I inspect the brakes, looking for wear on pads and discs (and cracks on discs). If any doubt I change them - normally the whole lot as a set for all four wheels is about the same price as changing just two. The longest I leave them on is 4 years (in Germany the state 'fitness for road' test is every two years, so I change them at least every other test, in practice this has been between 25 k and 90 k km.
Since I adopted and adapted VW method of bleeding the brakes, they have been 1st class - it is REALLY worth doing it properly - it gave me a level of confidence in my brakes and my work that I had never had before.
Buy a decent pneumatic tank / brake bleeder system (spend more the first time otherwise you end up with two cheap ones that work but are not easy to use and one really good one). Buy/get at least four decent plastics bottles with appropriate tubes (5 if you want to do the clutch at the same time),
Get an assistant. Buy a 4.5 or 5 ltr Dot 6 ATE fluid (surprisingly cheap if you look around - under 25€)
'pre-bleed' them if you changed anything like a cylinder or gasket (bleed both left and right front brake at the same time, and then both rear ones).
Using about 2 bar in your pneumatic bleeder, then bleed normally in this order: front right, front left, rear right and rear left. Each time, bleed til no more bubbles can be seen.
To bleed each one: get your assistant to press brake. Open bleeder valve. Press pedal more to max. Close valve and then release pedal. VW claim do this 5 times for each brake - I bleed each one at a time and cycle through 5 times.
This seems way over the top until you have done it. Once you have done it this way once, I think you will always do it this way as you get a really solid result that makes you happy.
 
Last edited:

Geomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Update:
I took the brake pads and rotors off and sanded off a lot of the glaze. The rear rotors had a smooth glassy black surface and the fronts were almost as coated. I also did a standard brake fluid change with a motive power bleeder. The stopping was noticeably better after the first 30 to 10 mph stop and has improved even more over the last couple of weeks. Thanks again for all your help.
 
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