Waterless coolant anyone used it..heat damaged head

[Festa]

It appears on my 5 pot pd with a gt2262v hybrid I'm able to still produce boost and decent power up at 5000rpm and since the engine wants to rev I do and it's up there quite frequently. As the clutch is slipping and the engine is being pulled I decided to do a compression test as I had found cylinder five heater plug wet and wet on the inlet port fuel rail has held pressure so I don't think the injector seals have gone.
It could be a dribbling injector but why would it be wet on the inlet port? The compression test has shown that cylinder 4 is down and 5 is even worse ...1=430....2=435....3=475....4=360.....5=260. Psi
One theory would be that 4-5 has suffered damage from reduced circulation of fluids as both the water pump and oil pump are bias to cylinder 1 I'm so seeing if waterless coolant could or would have helped reduce the possibility of heat damage.
As I like the five pot I don't really want to scrap it but to now gain more power I may not have no choice.
Input greatly accepted

 

[miatamike203]

We have used evans coolant in our shops race car and we noted cooler engine temps on the track over pure water with water wetter. ITs boiling temp is much higher then normal coolant so you dont get the pressure build up so seals and gaskets tend to last longer. The one down side to it is the cost.

The shop car was a 04 subaru sti road race car. The car was limited to 350whp for the ST2 class we ran with NASA Northeast.

 

[Festa]

I thought that it had been banned in Motorsport because of the flash point and the risk of fire if I'm suffering from low flow rate of water around cylinders 4 and 5 I can't see how it would help as by the looks of it the waterless coolant it raises the operating temperature rather than decreasing it ?
It was suggested to me to use it by some of the drifting boys as they have trouble getting enough air through the engine...that not really my problem.
If the coolant helps reduce oil temps than that's another thing but by the looks of the head galleries of the head I have cut open there seems to be more water volume than oil so can't see how that would help?
Thanks for the input

 

[Ranch]

head gasket blown between the 2 cylinders.

 

[Ranch]

The problem I've had with wrapping around my head of ' coolant X' coming out of the block cooler, or hotter, than 'coolant Y'.. is this;
That engine makes X amount of heat, regardless of what is circulating around.
If coolant 'x'.. comes out at 190, it has absorbed a certain amount of heat. When coolant 'y' comes out at say, 180, that means it absorbed less, which means somewhere, btu's were left behind. The gauge only shows what is being removed, not necessarily what is being left behind.
I just got done with a very expensive rebuild on a older cummins, from lack of circulation. The water that was coming out was no way too hot, but the rearward cylinders were scuffed beyond scuffed... in fact it got so hot that the engine seized, but miraculously started after cooling down. HORRENDOUS blow by of course!

Check your blowby, and if it seems normal, I'd still suspect a bad head gasket.

 

[Festa]

Cylinder 5 is the weaker bore as it did drop a valve a few years ago. The outcome of that was low compression on five as the engine rebuilder machined the plasma coating out and fitted a sleeve as the coating got damaged. What he didn't do was fit a chrome ring but instead fitted a standard set of rings....soft on soft something wears with was sorted back in march when I stripped the engine and also found that there was a bolt in the sump.
This was traced to the oil pump so I have also had low oil flow at the higher rpms new mains and big ends as these showed signs of wear but I'm now thinking the spray bar may have also not doing its job properly so would probably not sprayed oil onto piston 5 skirt as well as it should.
Bore saved with a re hone and a set of rings for that piston but this fault now is different to the fault then.
Rev limiter has been increased and torque limits also, so with higher rpms there maybe more flow from both oil and water pump, but what if the water pump is producing cavitations due to it working beyond its designed rpm range I can see the head gasket being the first thing to go but haven't heard of problems with head gaskets on the 5 pot pd before but then I'm running more power for a longer time.

 

[Festa]

More depressing news now the engine and box is out 14k on a sachs sre cover and plate knackered and looks like a fire has broken out ... along with the first motion shaft in the gearbox as it has massive play in the back bearing, dmf has a broken spring on the power side and is knocking ...also nee 14k ago. Going to pull the head tomorrow as it does look like the head gasket has gone as there's water running out behind cylinders 4 and 5 from the gasket...I'll make a decession tomorrow once the head is off

 

[bhodgkiss]

Umm.... different substances have different SHC's (specific heat capacities, the amount of energy it takes a to heat a substance one degree), so if coolant x comes out at 190 and coolant y at 180 then it's possible they have taken away the same amount of heat energy.

Coolant y may even have absorbed more

Surely you've compared apples and pears, but have assumed the pear is an apple

 

[GoFaster]

I use Evans coolant in one of my bikes, which is a model that has a history of leaking water pump seals (and I've had it happen). At $180 a pop, using the Evans coolant so that the cooling system can operate without any pressure (the radiator cap pressure valve has been defeated) should put less stress on the seal. No corrosion, either.

But cooling ... I'm not really impressed. Yeah, it won't boil over, but it heats up quicker and runs hotter. That's OK on cold start, not so much in hot weather or if stuck in traffic. Propylene glycol has less heat capacity than water, so this isn't really surprising.

If you have a specific reason to benefit from the specific advantages of the Evans coolant - either the zero operating pressure or the resistance to boiling over - then sure, it's a benefit. In a normal general purpose application, I don't think it's worth the bother.

 

[miatamike203]

I use Evans coolant in one of my bikes, which is a model that has a history of leaking water pump seals (and I've had it happen). At $180 a pop, using the Evans coolant so that the cooling system can operate without any pressure (the radiator cap pressure valve has been defeated) should put less stress on the seal. No corrosion, either.

But cooling ... I'm not really impressed. Yeah, it won't boil over, but it heats up quicker and runs hotter. That's OK on cold start, not so much in hot weather or if stuck in traffic. Propylene glycol has less heat capacity than water, so this isn't really surprising.

If you have a specific reason to benefit from the specific advantages of the Evans coolant - either the zero operating pressure or the resistance to boiling over - then sure, it's a benefit. In a normal general purpose application, I don't think it's worth the bother.

It sounds like you have a KTM with an RFS engine, am i right? I had to run the same coolant in mine to keep it from leaking. It was also safer for the magnesium engines in the bike.

 

[Festa]

Will pull the head today and see what's going on so will report back. Never known of head gasket problems with the 5 pot pd but then it's not really a favourite for tuning by the looks. I suppose it could be a number of things that has reduced the life of the gasket but 14000 mike ago the head and block was inspected, with a few normal cracks around the injector that I've seen before there appeared to be not a lot wrong.
All I can think of is head lift ( unlikely with m12 bolts down to the crank journals) higher combustion pressures or as the title coolant issue that has warped the head.
The thing that has now put me off is the higher working temps but the reduced pressure is a bonus.
So to reduce pressure with water and normal antifreeze would a larger expansion vessel so the water can expand to reducing the pressure possibly work ? If I increase to radiator core for cooling I'll increase water volume and increase working pressure...bigger rad should equal a larger loss of heat but not at certain points within the head ?
To many variables going around my head now..
What I did find was the turbo to manifold gasket has burnt through indicating either a higher back pressure for the turbo or the turbo wasn't done up correctly.
Thanks for the input guys

 

[Bobby Singh]

Take the LPG out for a start I say

 

[miatamike203]

To drop the pressure you need to raise the boiling point. You want to keep the coolant in liquid form, as soon as you start getting close to its boiling point it wants to vaporizer. The reason normal coolant doesnt boil away is the system is that its under pressure. Pressure is a double edged sword in terms of cooling systems, more pressure your fluid is under the higher the boiling point is, the down side is pressure puts more stress on everything in the cooling system IE hoses, seal,gaskets and bearings.

 

[Festa]

Take the LPG out for a start I say

Good evening bobby..gas has been on but since this white smoking it has been off , in fairness it has been turned down to only a 5-8% mix . With the head pulled there is no cracking, no piston damage but there is signs of burning on the gasket between 4-5. With a straight edge across the head it has been found that the threads have pulled on the rear only on cylinder 5 and this is where the water is leaking from the rear water ways. Can't work out why this has happened just in this area I was reminded that 5 years ago when the core plug fell out this cylinder got rather warm and the exhaust seating fell out the head and stopped the valve from closing..you can guess the rest. Bore was sleeved and thing have been ok since but in my mind it's always been a week cylinder but why the threads have pulled is beyond me.
The lpg does help with the burn of diesel and I get a full burn or a bigger bang but still does explain why it's the weaker cylinder which has been effected should have it back together for the weekennd

 

[dirtride]

It sounds like you have a KTM with an RFS engine, am i right? I had to run the same coolant in mine to keep it from leaking. It was also safer for the magnesium engines in the bike.

This is what I like to hear. A man talking KTM on a TDI forum!!

That covers two of my three favorite toys.

 

[Ranch]

Umm.... different substances have different SHC's (specific heat capacities, the amount of energy it takes a to heat a substance one degree), so if coolant x comes out at 190 and coolant y at 180 then it's possible they have taken away the same amount of heat energy.

Coolant y may even have absorbed more

Surely you've compared apples and pears, but have assumed the pear is an apple

ok... wrapping my head around this...
Yep, gotcha!
I just found out that pure water actually has more heat capacity, than say a 50/50 mix of glycol-water.. and an INCREASE of flow of basically 20% is required with the glycol mix to remove the same amount of 'heat'. *this is important for me... I got some other issues with an entirely different subject..
Thanks for 'catching' me!
So, on the flip side of this, wouldn't this special mix that removes more heat be 'slowed' down somewhat for it to be more effective?
(since glycol mix versus pure water volume needs to be increased)?

 

[Festa]

Engine stripped and is going back together today can say no damage from the use of lpg with no burning of the pistons or head (for your info Bobby). Head has jumped though but the engine has some odd thread pitches and so I can't go from a tensile 10.9 upto 12.? Because of this the arl bolts I was going to use is am m12 x170mm with a 1.75mm pitch and the thread has been measure from the under side of the bolt head, my head bolts are m12x147mm 1.5mm pitch but the bolts go through to the crankshaft saddles via a sleave nut..the crankshaft bolts are 285mm in length but only has 40mm worth of thread to screw into the sleaved nut from the underside, if that makes sense. Flattened back the high points on the block as that was pulled I still don't understand why.
The head bolts have definitely stretched and still think it's an over heating issue rather than a combustion issue.
On a different note why do you need stretch bolts on a cylinder head and why in the torque down sequence would you undo the bolt by 1/4 turn as per instruction

 

[TLH_TDI]

I used the Evans at my first timing belt replacement with a new water pump from Diesel Geek. Flushed the system with water and then removed as much water as possible with air before installing the new pump and Evans AF. Left the coolant tank cap off until as much of the water was evaporated off as possible. I don't know if it was caused by the Evans or not but the water pump seal on the inside failed, washing out the bearing lubricant and causing the pump to fail at 30k miles. New pump with TB kit again from Diesel Geek and VW G12 coolant, 100k miles, no problems. I'm now on my third TB kit from Diesel Geek. Over 259k miles.