Water Injection, does it benefit TDI?

[White Crow]

http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/DIS_WP.pdf

 

[Farfromovin]

What nozzle and mix were you using.

On that dyno I was using a D03 and I tried a D03/D01 pre-compressor combo. Both were with 50/50. All this stuff was exactly what Dvldoc recommended way back in the day. Granted, my car was highly tuned and I had plenty of D2 so the gains were minimal.

Folks gain tons of power with 50/50 on stock ECU's from what I've seen. I'd guess that's why the trucks can pick up 50-100 whp from meth. Maybe a stock ALH would pick up 15-30whp with w/m? I can't say I've ever heard of a stock ALH running a kit.

 

[dieselpower04]

One of the many things I've always wanted to buy but felt the benefits were hard to come buy. $600 for a W/M kit could go towards a bigger turbo with less EGTs

 

[ocshaman]

I plan on trying it. Need to find out where to mount the pump and nozzle. A thread on the DO forum got crickets.

 

[kooyajerms]

One of the many things I've always wanted to buy but felt the benefits were hard to come buy. $600 for a W/M kit could go towards a bigger turbo with less EGTs

X2 .

I am interested in that external IC sprayer though, just gotta make a kit that shouldn't cost more than a couple bucks.

 

[dieselpower04]

X2 .

I am interested in that external IC sprayer though, just gotta make a kit that shouldn't cost more than a couple bucks.

Yeah I want that too. Its soooo hot in FL

 

[loudspl]

For those that remember "Atomicsushi" ran a N20 intercooler spray kit and it worked really well to lower temps. But N20 is expensive per pound....there are CO2 options for FMIC spray kits too..

 

[dieselpower04]

For those that remember "Atomicsushi" ran a N20 intercooler spray kit and it worked really well to lower temps. But N20 is expensive per pound....there are CO2 options for FMIC spray kits too..

But how well do they work? I feel like people have stopped using them/making them. There must be a reason for that?

 

[loudspl]

But how well do they work? I feel like people have stopped using them/making them. There must be a reason for that?

IIRC NX, DEI, Edelbrock, NOS and probably others still make them..

It's good to minimize loss from heat soak when your air-to-air FMIC isn't working well enough in the summer to keep EGTs low. The kits aren't dirt cheap but if you're crafty I'm sure one could be homemade

 

[VWBeamer]

I have the intercooler sprayer off a SRT-4. It sprays water.
I also have the water/meth injection kit, but have not hooked it up yet.

Hopefully I can give some feedback on both soon. It's hot in GA right now, so I hope they help.

 

[traxterXT]

I've been using water/meth for 2 years now with mixes up to 70% meth (Usualy 50/50 for street use) and the rods are still where they should be. I have a DO7 and a 250psi pump and it starts spraying at 8 psi.

-Power gains? Oh yeah

-Cools the internal ? yeah

-good bang for the buck? yepers

-Pre-turbo? nop (all you need is to cool the charged air and on mk4 to have full benefits you would need to relocate the IAT sensor or put a resistance to hold timing.)

Snow is over priced. on a TDI you could just take the generic Hi-boost diesel kit from devilsown


KKK K14 @25psi
Race520
W/M DO7 at 250psi
Evrymod on stock ECU

 

[4motion]

Yup yup, what he said! How do you control the boost level on our turbos? I want a boost controller on mine but some says diesel is different than gasser.

 

[traxterXT]

Well i have a wastegate turbo so it pretty easy just a normal boost controler from boost valve . Com does the work for 65$ but we were talking of meth injection. The a/f mixture in a diesel is not as important as in gas. Diesel throttled by fuel. Gas are throtled by air.

 

[4motion]

Hells yes! I'm geeting a wastegate turbo then. How much you paid for the turbo? Did you have to make a manifold?

 

[Farfromovin]

Yup yup, what he said! How do you control the boost level on our turbos? I want a boost controller on mine but some says diesel is different than gasser.

Oh my young newb, you have so much to learn... Boost control is performed by the ECU on your car.

Hells yes! I'm geeting a wastegate turbo then. How much you paid for the turbo? Did you have to make a manifold?

We'll see what you think about turbo choices tomorrow when you drive my car. I want to drive yours first though as I haven't driven a stock ALH in about 3-4 years.

 

[nicklockard]

Yeah, who has a stock ALH anymore? Rarer than hen's teeth ;p

 

[4motion]

I do. Have my first TDI for about 2 months now. Drove Farfromovin's car today, that thing moves! So much torque, it also handles very well going into & exit outta corners. Partially bc he's put in a LSD, but the stock sway bars on his car are amazing. It's on par with my friend's Evo 9 MR, in handling department. Love it.

 

[mk1-83]

@ traxterXT

kkk-k14 small old type turbo of 1.9td eco.
running 25psi is way over the efficient line of the turbo!!
it's now acting like a heat gun... so spraying lots of w/m helps to cool the intake temp. down that's the way you feel the power gain.
also race520 + everymod. you got lots of fuel.

 

[Farfromovin]

@ traxterXT

kkk-k14 small old type turbo of 1.9td eco.
running 25psi is way over the efficient line of the turbo!!
it's now acting like a heat gun... so spraying lots of w/m helps to cool the intake temp. down that's the way you feel the power gain.
also race520 + everymod. you got lots of fuel.

I don't know much about Turbo maps but what your saying makes sense. I look at it this way: would you rather rely on the timing of your injection system, or the timing of random methanol explosions?

 

[traxterXT]

@ traxterXT

kkk-k14 small old type turbo of 1.9td eco.
running 25psi is way over the efficient line of the turbo!!
it's now acting like a heat gun... so spraying lots of w/m helps to cool the intake temp. down that's the way you feel the power gain.
also race520 + everymod. you got lots of fuel.

I know its pushing the limit of that turbo and the meth will cool it down massively. with out meth the IAT climbs to 80deg C with meth on goes back to ambient temps. but my friend has the same setup with a GT2056 waste gate which the most efficient compressor wheel that garrett has to offer and when he starts to spay bamm wheels starts spin under up to 3 gear and shirps the 4th gear. we could discuss this over and over but theres power gains out of meth.

 

[traxterXT]

I don't know much about Turbo maps but what your saying makes sense. I look at it this way: would you rather rely on the timing of your injection system, or the timing of random methanol explosions?

VE timming is pretty crappy passed 4300PRM and its limited by the actual hardware. thats why CR tdi will make power up the 5500rpm soon....

 

[dieselpower04]

I know its pushing the limit of that turbo and the meth will cool it down massively. with out meth the IAT climbs to 80deg C with meth on goes back to ambient temps. but my friend has the same setup with a GT2056 waste gate which the most efficient compressor wheel that garrett has to offer and when he starts to spay bamm wheels starts spin under up to 3 gear and shirps the 4th gear. we could discuss this over and over but theres power gains out of meth.

Why are you spraying water/meth before the MAP sensor? That is the only way you can tell the AIT are going down. Its that bad for the MAP sensor?!

 

[Farfromovin]

VE timming is pretty crappy passed 4300PRM and its limited by the actual hardware. thats why CR tdi will make power up the 5500rpm soon....

No doubt the CR is superior here. Still VE timing is vastly superior to random explosions of methanol LOL.

I know its pushing the limit of that turbo and the meth will cool it down massively. with out meth the IAT climbs to 80deg C with meth on goes back to ambient temps. but my friend has the same setup with a GT2056 waste gate which the most efficient compressor wheel that garrett has to offer and when he starts to spay bamm wheels starts spin under up to 3 gear and shirps the 4th gear. we could discuss this over and over but theres power gains out of meth.

What w/m setup is your friend running, i.e. controller type, pump psi, nozzle(s) size, and meth %?

 

[traxterXT]

Devils own generic high boost kit. single nozzle D07 triggering at 12 psi with 60meth/40 water.

On the engine side, low compression pistons, ported head, stock ecu, evrymod , R520, GT2056 waste gate at 27psi did a 13.8sec on street tires 1/4 mile pass.

 

[traxterXT]

Why are you spraying water/meth before the MAP sensor? That is the only way you can tell the AIT are going down. Its that bad for the MAP sensor?!

Mk3 has IAT sensor on the charge pipe before the intake and can take water with out any problem. the MAP is in the ECU for 1Z and AHU engines

 

[dieselpower04]

Mk3 has IAT sensor on the charge pipe before the intake and can take water with out any problem. the MAP is in the ECU for 1Z and AHU engines

Fair enough. That is not how the Mk4's work

 

[mk1-83]

I will say go for the biggest turbo you can buy, then when you push that turbo realy hard and over his effecient. than put some w/m to cool down the IAT.

k-14 turbo max 18 psi at most.
save 15psi

 

[4motion]

I will say go for the biggest turbo you can buy

You probably missed my comments earlier. I'm not doing Fast & Furious in my TDI, I just don't want to be the slowest TDI on the streets. With that said, I want safe & reliable increase in engine output like the VNT17 or equavalent. 170hp & 250lb torque is good enough for me.

 

[GTiTDi]

l am thinking of installing a WM inj. set up on my 1Z...I still have the stock GT15, but an RC3 tune w 20lbs boost, is it worthwhile?

 

[4motion]

I guess any engine with that much boost should benefit from WI. Just my guess though, no solid number to proof.