Was there a European B5 ALH Passat?

G60ING

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Just wondering if there was ever a Passat with the engine code ALH. It would make a B5 conversion very legal and easy.
 

oilhammer

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No, but they did have a similar engine, 1.9L VE SOHC VNT, 90hp IIRC in the earlier (1998 through early 2001) B5, but the later (2001.5 to 2005) Passat just got EA113 based engines, and I think the weakest 1.9L was 100hp, engine code AVB.
 

G60ING

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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Think it would be possible to swap over one of these engine's parts to an ALH block and have it function properly?

I am trying for a postion in Germany and I'm dreaming up something that might be possible to bring back home in my wife's 20V passat.
 

G60ING

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B5

I'd swap over the transmission too.
 

gizmocska

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2003 Passat AFN 1.9 tdi For Sale...
I have seen an AHU swap in to a 1998 A4 which is the same thing as the b5 passat and this guy did it in his suburban garage...the transmission was a quatro as well so it bolted up to a 5 spd 4 motion or quattro tranny.Some fabrication was needed but it is possible to do it with low budget as well. I will start a post on this see if anyone has a well documented link or post regarding this swap,that is being asked more often.AHU engines are cheap and with the help off an M tdi pump thing become a lot simpler .I am listening to anyone's input on this.Thanx for bringing it up.
 

G60ING

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Sorry an AHU is not what I want to use. My car is a VERY late 1999 model year car. In fact in most dealer computers it comes up with with a 2000 model year drivetrain even though its a 1998-1999 AEB largeport 20V with no MAP sensor. My car would not pass CA emissions with an AHU. If you want to do a B5 with a mechanical pump AHU then please start another thread or chime in on somebody's thread that is already using an AHU. I do not want to muddy the water. Thanks
 
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oilhammer

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If the car is a B5, and originally a stick, it would be pretty straightforward to swap an AHU into it. They actually DID originally have the AHU in those cars, and since it is the same engine family (EA827) as the AEB 1.8t sold here, you could use all those mounting parts as well as the oil pan, pump, etc.

The rest of the items like mounting brackets for the accessories, etc. may have to be sourced from someone in Europe, as they are probably not all the same as those found in an A3 or B4.

I am sure you could mount an ALH (EA113 family) into the earlier cars, but you would need to get a bunch of parts from a later 1.8t B5.5 engine (AWM) and I am not sure what else.

Engines go by model year, if your car's 10th digit is an 'X', it is a 1999, and since Volkswagen DID sell AHU engines in 1999 model year cars, the legal part as far as that goes is a non-issue. But they never bolted them into a B5 so I am not sure what issues you will run into there.
 
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G60ING

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oilhammer said:
If the car is a B5, and originally a stick, it would be pretty straightforward to swap an AHU into it. They actually DID originally have the AHU in those cars, and since it is the same engine family (EA827) as the AEB 1.8t sold here, you could use all those mounting parts as well as the oil pan, pump, etc.

The rest of the items like mounting brackets for the accessories, etc. may have to be sourced from someone in Europe, as they are probably not all the same as those found in an A3 or B4.
I know that they came with an AHU and even an AFN for a stealthy upgrade if done correctly but when I move to california or some other emission strict state they will not allow me to register it. Using a motor older then my car's manufacture date is an automatic FAILURE. This why I am so hell bent on the ALH block with with either an AFN or some other european Passat wiring harness/cluster and accessories.
 
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oilhammer

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Even in 2000 they were still using the old EA827 engines in Europe. AHU, AHH, AFN, AVG.

The AJM and ATJ were EA113 engines, like the ALH, but are PD115s, and only used for about 10 months in that transitional era.
 
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G60ING

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oilhammer said:
Even in 2000 they were still using the old EA827 engines in Europe. AHU, AHH, AFN, AVG.
You might not be understanding the emissions process in the USA. All engines codes used for swaps need to be federally approved if a car is to be legally registered in the USA.

States with emissions checks is where this would be an issue.
 

G60ING

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Also there are laws about engines needing to be the same age or newer so that in theory the emissions will get better for the vehicle receiving the the engine swap
 

oilhammer

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I understand as far as model years... they say no engine OLDER than the car's model year can be used. So if you have a 1999 model year (tenth digit of VIN is X) then a 1999 model year engine (of which the AHU is one) is legal. They don't go by production dates. I have done many engine swaps.

Beyond that, as actual testing, I am not sure. We have OBD testing here on gas and diesel cars, so long as the OBD system is working to US EPA specs and all the readiness monitors are passed, you are golden.

Obviously, NO TDI was sold in a B5 here, so technically it will not pass whatever emissions standards for diesels were in effect at that time (or else Volkswagen would have been selling them here all along).
 

G60ING

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Lug Nut ran into issues because of the production date of his TDI recipiant cars. He lives in Mass. where they follow CA emissions.

My Corrado will have to go through CA emissions and provided the engine is new then my car, USA spec and has all of its emissions equipment they will pass it at the referee station.
 

oilhammer

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Som how does production date play into this? How does anyone know what the production date of an engine is?

If your car's production date is January of 2002, the engine was probably built a month or more prior, but where is that information stored?

That is why I am not understanding that part of the process.
 

Scott_DeWitt

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G60ING said:
Just wondering if there was ever a Passat with the engine code ALH. It would make a B5 conversion very legal and easy.
No I believe the ALH was a USA only engine code.

If you installed a euro diesel into a US chassis you must get the package certified for emissions etc, I think you even have to get a certification if you swap in a USA engine for a fuel conversion.

The last VE engine used in the B5 was the AVG and it was the old 058 block, then the ATJ PD115 engine which used the 06A block. Then came the B6 which had the AWX PD130 engine.

There was never a VE 06A block (ALH) of any variety used in the B5 anywhere.

G60ING said:
Sorry an AHU is not what I want to use. My car is a VERY late 1999 model year car. In fact in most dealer computers it comes up with with a 2000 model year drivetrain even though its a 1998-1999 AEB largeport 20V with no MAP sensor. My car would not pass CA emissions with an AHU. If you want to do a B5 with a mechanical pump AHU then please start another thread or chime in on somebody's thread that is already using an AHU. I do not want to muddy the water. Thanks
I'll be working on an AVG from an Austrian car I imported soon. It will be 100% plug and play and a bolt in. However Texas vehicle registration is quite a bit more lax than CA.

G60ING said:
Also there are laws about engines needing to be the same age or newer so that in theory the emissions will get better for the vehicle receiving the the engine swap
Didn't the 1999 jetta/golf come with 2 different engines, the later being an alh and the earlier an AHU?

If so you can use the AHU as it's technically the same year as your chassis, meaning the same model year. All you need is a VIN. Also doesn't the CARB rules read that a vehilce must conform to the latest emissions of either the engine or chassis? IE if you put a 2001 engine in a 2003 car, you must meet the 2003 emissions, and if you put a 2003 engine in a 1999 car, you must meet the 1999 emissions?

OilHammer is right you want to stick with a 058 style external water pump engine to keep it as simple as possible (you will still need to modify the accessory bracket or get a diesel unit to clear the alternator).

oilhammer said:
Som how does production date play into this? How does anyone know what the production date of an engine is?

If your car's production date is January of 2002, the engine was probably built a month or more prior, but where is that information stored?

That is why I am not understanding that part of the process.
Engine production dates can be deciphered from the engine code, or the white tag on the engine.
 
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Lug_Nut

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There were two (based on Passat production numbers) or three (unsustantiated) 1999 Passat TDI imported into the US.
Harview has seen one as it was auctioned off for some ungodly sum.
These did use the 1.9 ALH 90 hp engine.
The two identified in the production database were both 4 motion, tiptronic, GLX trim sedans. No doubt the 90 HP was deemed by VW to be underpowered when in those....

My problem with my 96 engine into a 97 body had to do with the OBD II requirement effective in diesels from 1997 onward. It wasn't that the engine was older than the body, it was that the engine didn't meet the functional requirements in effect for 1997. I swapped the BK (non-OBD II) ecu for a GQ (which is OBD II) and all was well.
I expect that, since the diesel emissions requirements didn't change between the inplementation of OBD II monitoring in 1997, and the ULSD change over in 2007(?) that the engine and computer from a 1999 diesel car would meet the requirements still in effect for 2003 when installed in a 2003 car.
 

oilhammer

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I think nobody really knows anything about those urban legend cars, other than they are urban legend. :)

Euro ETKA shows no such animal ever existed. AHU yes, ALH no.
 

G60ING

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yeah I just searched ebay.de and ebay.co.uk and there were no alh passats. But there were other cars that used the alh.
 

oilhammer

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The nuts and bolts are rarely the issue, it is the electronics and such. The early B5s have a simpler CAN system and no immobilizer, so that makes it easier.

I have looked into a TDI conversion into one of the [many] B5s with tooefed 1.8t engines I come across. An AHU into an earlier B5 with a stick would be the easiest, and you could possibly bolt the VNT17 from a BHW on and I *think* Jeff can set up an early ECU to work a VNT actuator like the AFN engine had maybe. Use a modded ALH pump to fit the AHU (gotta change the snout) and a PD130 intake, big nozzles, and it should run quite well.

You'd want to get a V6 trans, as that would be geared the tallest unless you imported some Euro one. The bellhousings on the B5 transmissions are bisexual for all the engines, 4, 5, 6, 8 cyl. IIRC.
 

G60ING

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I guess you didn't read why I am considering this swap and I'm so hard headed about using euro parts with the ALH. I am in the running for a couple jobs in Germany. I will have time and access to parts to do this.

Plus I like the ALH block more then the AHU. I think I might do the swap with AFN wiring and electronics and a hybrid of parts for the brackets and accessories.
 

oilhammer

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No, I read it all. And as I stated, there were no EA113 engine VE TDIs in 1998 through 2001 B5s, so I was trying to help you do something a little easier... perhaps YOU did not understand ME? ;)

But you can certainly cobble up enough stuff to make an ALH work. Personally, I think the ALH is a great engine but is lacking in its connecting rod design, as it still uses leftover AHU (028 style) rods where all the rest of the EA113 engines, even the gassers, got the newer one-piece 'cracked' style rods.

So if you were gonna build something, and you wanted the EA113 engine for whatever reason, you'd be better off to start with a PD lower end to get the better rods and pistons. The BEW (and BHW for that matter) both have the threaded holes in the front of the block for the ALH's timing belt components. You would not want a BRM as the CKP sensor is unique, among other things.
 

Scott_DeWitt

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G60ING said:
I guess you didn't read why I am considering this swap and I'm so hard headed about using euro parts with the ALH. I am in the running for a couple jobs in Germany. I will have time and access to parts to do this.

Plus I like the ALH block more then the AHU. I think I might do the swap with AFN wiring and electronics and a hybrid of parts for the brackets and accessories.
Your searching for an animal that never existed. Get an AVG harness, pump injectors and accessory brackets, locate an AWX shortblock, and an ALH head. (You'll have to use the ALH head for the vacuum pump).
 

k_harley

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In LugNut's case, there was a conflict on OBD compatability. He had a '96 ecu in a '97 car. The MA testing computer knew that there was certain communication that an FA , GQ, or JB ecu has that a BK doesnt.

However...... I am planning on doing the same swap as you eventually and pondering this topic. I see what Oilhammer is saying with the engine code and model year. I had somone appraoch me who had a 99 Audi A4 I wanted to buy for a swap and put an AHU in it. Now, we did have the AHU here in '99 in the MK3 Jetta so technicly it is federally legal.

But....I am thinking that once you get to model year 2000 any ecu that lives in a diesel powered car will have to communicate certain rediness information that the older type ecu's cannot convey. After this you would have to go with an ALH or PD engine in order to have the ecu to say the right things to big brother's OBD computer.

The other option, though illegal, get an OBD simulator and disguise that into the dash with a laptop spitting out good information with full rediness and no trouble codes. For $200 and a couple hours you have a permanent fix.
 

VW-TDI

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emission testing after TDI conversion

Wow so complicated emission testing and requirements in some states...
I done quite a few B4V GLX-TDI conversions, two of them this year was go thru emission testing (before registering as diesel vehicle). Here in Washington state they not use OBD2 to check emission in diesel cars. So it dosn't matter if the car is 1986 or 2005 they check emission from exhaust pipe. 4-5 snaps on gas pedal around 3500 RPM and emission test passed. This year I was going for emission testing for two B4V converted TDI passats. Last Passat I bring there and in the entrance I told "this car was gasoline powered and I swap the engine and now its diesel powered". They even not open the hood to check if its really the diesel there... Yea when it was running it was diesel engine sound... But no one even ask what engine was installed... (maybe it come from 79 Rabbit). Last time (two month ago) I done my very last conversion and at the emission testing they open the hood and just visually make sure there was a diesle engine. No one even ask me about engine code.
 

mrchill

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AFN architecture wont work in CARB states. No OBD2. ALH will work...lotsa effort, but will work. You could always run ALH architecture on an AHU.....but since you prefer ALH...just make up the stuff for it. I'd go PD....since those were in this country...the mountings and such are no problem.
 
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