Warped brake rotors?

[sandydeb]

So I have been getting this shudder when braking at moderate to high speeds (about 40mph+). Dropped the car off at the dealership and just got a call from them saying the rotors are warped and all (front and back) rotors and brake pads need to be replaced.

Has anyone heard of such a thing? This is a 2014 car with only 23k miles on it - exclusively driven by me and has never been in any sort of panic braking situation where even the ABS would have had to kick in. Dealership tells me then cannot say why this happened.

This is very surprising. I have had owned cars much older with more miles. My previous cars were all driven aggressively and required early brake pad replacements due to wear, but this TDI has been babied around for fuel efficiency, relying on engine braking and using the bare minimum of braking possible.

Any ideas? Has anyone else faced such a thing?

 

[GetMore]

There are a couple of things that have led to this sort of thing in the past, and may or may not be applicable to your car:

If the wheels are overtorqued on some of the bolts it can angle the rotors. (Not really sure why, but it has happened.)
If you use the brakes heavily (not necessarily hard enough to activate ABS) and stop and sit at the end it can deposit pad material on the rotors, that will cause a grabby part, and that can feel like pulsing. (This seems more likely than warping.)
If the car sat for a while, allowing all but the area under the pads to rust.

The first one might be able to be fixed by loosening all the bolts, and then tightening them down properly.

The second two should be fixable by "bedding" the pads. This is a procedure where you slow down from highway speed, but don't stop, then get back up to speed and repeat a number of times to get the pads and rotors nice and hot, then drive without touching the pedal for a while to cool everything down again.
This should deposit an even layer of pad material on the rotor, making for even braking.

 

[wrpercival]

I'd get a second opinion from an independent mechanic prior to making any decision.

 

[atc98002]

My 2006 Jetta had some warped rotors at around 15K miles, so yeah, it's possible. I think mine were the rear only, but can't really remember. Mine were fixed under warranty of course. I live on a steep hill, but generally use engine braking to check my speed. Still, they warped.

The same thing did not occur on my 2011 Tiguan or my current Passat. It's certainly possible that your car was stuck with some rotors that were incorrectly treated when manufactured and warped because if it.

 

[tc1uscg]

Been there.

Felt the same thing with my 2013. At round the 28k mark, took it in and said I felt some "shudder" in the steering when lightly applying brakes at highway speeds (40+). Service adviser said that's normal but would look at it. Yeah, burning oil is normal too but unacceptable. I went off on the guy saying unless this car was built by Chrysler, it shouldn't feel like that? He wasn't amused being exampled to Chrysler.

 

[sandydeb]

If the wheels are overtorqued on some of the bolts it can angle the rotors.

This could be possible.

True story - a while back I called VW roadside service to replace a flat tire with a donut (was raining outside and I didn't to do it). The mechanic (if you can call him that) came by asking for a hammer half an hour after he had arrived, claiming the nut was stuck. I was intrigued, the tires has last been rotated at the dealership during regular service.

I went out, and figured out the genius had been trying to pry open the nut for half an hour going CLOCKWISE. Not a joke, true story. In the process he got the thing hopelessly jammed. I immediately sent him away. Next day, the car had to be towed to the dealership to get the wheel off.

The slight shudder started after I got the car back from the dealership. But I would have thought they would have refitted the wheel with the proper torque?

Anyway, I called them and they claim it is a problem with all 4 rotors, not just that one.

 

[peterwinkle]

Mine is at 82k and has warped rotors (fronts) for the second time. I would bet that mine is due to over torquing the wheels, I always have the Discount Tire rotate my wheels since it's free after buying their tires. They cant ever get the proper psi even after specific instructions so I doubt they can properly torque the lugs.

The first time my rotors warped (at a round 30k miles) I still had 80-90% pads left. This time the pads are still at around 50% on the original pads.

 

[tdiatlast]

***...note to self: Continue re-torquing wheel lug bolts/nuts after ANYONE else has removed wheels!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lincoln]

OP, I've also read (and come to believe) that rotors frequently get warped when brakes are applied for some time (e.g. long downhill slope), then while still warm, the vehicle comes to a complete stop and the brakes are pressed hard while at rest. Basically, the idea is that the metal gets hot while braking, then is pressed in one spot while the vehicle is stopped, causing the warp. Not sure whether that's true or applies to you, but I've been careful to not press hard on the brake while sitting at a stop light ever since.

 

[sandydeb]

OP, I've also read (and come to believe) that rotors frequently get warped when brakes are applied for some time (e.g. long downhill slope), then while still warm, the vehicle comes to a complete stop and the brakes are pressed hard while at rest. Basically, the idea is that the metal gets hot while braking, then is pressed in one spot while the vehicle is stopped, causing the warp. Not sure whether that's true or applies to you, but I've been careful to not press hard on the brake while sitting at a stop light ever since.

The pads squeeze the rotor from both sides so that should not be an issue.

Either way, does not apply because my house it up a very gentle slope so no braking before stopping, and being a manual i mostly rely on engine braking while going downhill.

 

[Mark SF]

In most of the cases of rotor vibration that I've experienced, you could clearly see the imprint of the brake pads on the rotor.

 

[Lincoln]

The pads squeeze the rotor from both sides so that should not be an issue.

I've seen enough uneven pad wear to believe that often the pressure is not even. Anyway, it's just a thought.

 

[GetMore]

Those "warping" posts above might actually be pad transfer instead. It would feel like a warped rotor, but actually isn't. That's when doing the bedding procedure can fix the issue.

Since the OP hasn't used the brakes hard I'm guessing we can rule that out.

 

[Ramairetransam]

i warped the brakes twice in the 70 k ive owned it. Mine are terrible now and have been since before the scandal broke out , now im not replacing them since its being bought back .

 

[740GLE]

The slight shudder started after I got the car back from the dealership. But I would have thought they would have refitted the wheel with the proper torque?

Anyway, I called them and they claim it is a problem with all 4 rotors, not just that one.

That's why I retorque all lugs after anyone touches the tires.

 

[gforce1108]

I am the only one to ever have a wheel on/off my car and every one has been torqued with a torque wrench. By 25k miles the rear rotors were going. Looks like delamination. Plenty of pad left, the rotors just seem to be crap quality (funny someone mentioned Chrysler - I used to change a friends pads/rotors every 15k or so!). There is a pulsation and a groaning noise when the brakes are applied.

I got 90k miles out of the pads on my Jetta twice. I drive the Passat more gently. I originally planned to upgrade to a better set all the way around - but I've registered to sell it back to VW. Can't turn down more money than I paid for it new in '13.

 

[turbobrick240]

You use a torque wrench on lug bolts? That's more dedication than I have. I think there are occasionally bad batches of steel that go into the rotors. Most people here seem to get extremely long life from their pads/rotors. My uncle's '13 Ford escape has gone through two full sets of pads/rotors in less than 50k. My golf is still rocking the original rotors at 140k. Still smooth as butter.

 

[740GLE]

The tools int the tool box, it'd be a shame not to use it. Takes 1-2 min to hit all 4 corners once they are snugged.

 

[jjblbi]

I had a brake vibration and thought I had warped rotors. It ended up being one over-torqued wheel. I bought a cheap ($35-20%) harbor freight dial gauge indicator kit to diagnose and check run out. http://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-93051.html

 

[tdiatlast]

...please read post #8 and post #15...

 

[Mark SF]

You use a torque wrench on lug bolts? That's more dedication than I have. I think there are occasionally bad batches of steel that go into the rotors. Most people here seem to get extremely long life from their pads/rotors. My uncle's '13 Ford escape has gone through two full sets of pads/rotors in less than 50k. My golf is still rocking the original rotors at 140k. Still smooth as butter.

There are people who don't use a torque wrench on lug bolts?

I usually use my DeWalt cordless impact driver with a slightly lower setting torque stick, then a final check with a torque wrench. The torque sticks are pretty accurate, though.

 

[turbobrick240]

There are people who don't use a torque wrench on lug bolts?

I usually use my DeWalt cordless impact driver with a slightly lower setting torque stick, then a final check with a torque wrench. The torque sticks are pretty accurate, though.

Yeah, actually I'd say the majority don't bother. Impact drivers are the main culprit in over torqued lugs. My farmers intuition tells me that tight is good, and gorilla tight is bad.

 

[gforce1108]

You use a torque wrench on lug bolts? That's more dedication than I have. I think there are occasionally bad batches of steel that go into the rotors. Most people here seem to get extremely long life from their pads/rotors. My uncle's '13 Ford escape has gone through two full sets of pads/rotors in less than 50k. My golf is still rocking the original rotors at 140k. Still smooth as butter.

I work on a lot of cars that belong to other people - it's not worth guessing... I know several people who have had work done at a shop that did not torque them (including the use of torque sticks) and have had wheels come loose. Every car - every lug gets torqued with an actual torque wrench.

I even torqued the screws holding the fuel filter housing on my Passat just in case there was ever a problem and the dealer tried to blame me for doing all the services myself.

Many fasteners I do by feel though, but not anything critical (timing belts / lug bolts, etc.).

 

[turbobrick240]

Right on, I respect the attention to detail. Especially when working on other folks cars. Up here in the rust belt I suspect I'd have to clean and lubricate the lug bolts to get any kind of torquing accuracy. Probably a good idea regardless.

 

[ohenry]

Answer: The Loctite people recommend reducing applied torque by 20 percent from dry values when using their liquid thread-locking compounds on threaded fasteners. You can find tables of wet-vs.-dry fastener torques in places like Thomas J. Glover's "The Pocket Ref" (inexpensive, used, on Amazon), but judging from the values given, a fair estimate would be a 25 percent reduction in torque when tightening an oiled or anti-seize-treated fastener.

If you're using anti-seize compund on your lug bolts, and the torque specification is for 90 ft lbs, then probably around 68 to 72 ft lbs would be appropriate.

 

[Trade Wind]

What is the torque spec for NMS Passat lug bolts?

 

[gforce1108]

What is the torque spec for NMS Passat lug bolts?

I believe the official 'spec' is 103 ft-lbs. I set mine at 105.

 

[r11]

If the rotors are indeed shot, a replacement set of Wearever rotors + pads (platinum are less than a $100 @ Autozone, using their $40 off $100 deal. Very easy to install.

I use a 100lb torque limiting stick whenever I install tires, on all of my cars, from Cherokee to VW . I have a set, but you can buy this: Sunex 24120 1/2-Inch Drive 120-Feet-Pound Extension Bar. for under $8 on amazon, good enough.

 

[inthered]

The rotors on my 05 Jetta warped fairly easily. When I did the brakes and rotors there were no issues.

My 13 Passat has the same issue. If/when I change them I'm sure the problem will go away. I'm not heavy on the brakes at all and use the car daily. I just attributed it to cheap rotors in the factory.