VW's Consumer Reports reliability ratings dropping...

[gearheadgrrrl]

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

As a brand, VW's reliability has dropped to 30 on a 0 to 100 scale, barely ahead of bottom dweller Fiat Chrysler's brands. Looking at individual models, all the Golf, Jetta, and Passat models as well as the similar Audi A3 had below average or far below average reliability. Showing that VW group still knows how to build a reliable car when they want too, Audi overall scored near the top of all brands.

I'm still 2 years away from turning in my JSW, but if VW can't improve their reliability, they've lost me...

 

[FowVay]

I can deal with the mechanics of owning a VW/Audi product but I refuse to tolerate the corruption from the dealers, the importer, and the corporation in general.

I have no intention of replacing my Jetta with another VW product. They had their chance...

 

[Jetta SS]

I've owned VW and Chrysler vehicles for the past 19 years. Reliability has been excellent for me.

 

[NYC-TDI]

Accurate if my Golf was any indication.

 

[Cincy_TDI]

Was looking to replace my Jetta with a GTI... may just take my money and run...

 

[burpod]

thanks for posting a link to a retarded website. whether or not i like vw or not, consumereposts is useless. try again somewhere else

 

[Ol'Rattler]

OIDK. CR is good entertainment.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/press001969.html

 

[DRfez]

This is interesting, I have a 12 golf with 185k kms and have had no problems. I have had and still have Hondas and the VW is just as reliable. With all my vehicles I service them as directed and don't drive them hard. So you really can't go by CR, a lot depends on how you drive and maintain your car.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

I had good luck with VWs too...

But CR rates my 2013 JSW as "average" in reliability and IIRC my 2003 Golf was rated "above average". It appears that VW's reliability has been slipping the last few years.

 

[Steve-o]

But CR rates my 2013 JSW as "average" in reliability and IIRC my 2003 Golf was rated "above average". It appears that VW's reliability has been slipping the last few years.

CR's methodology is, umm, what's the word? Oh, yeah. It sucks.

Poll respondents are a subset of CR readers who choose to respond. Right away that's not a good foundation for having a valid sample of VW owners. CR is quite vague about what constitutes a "problem". How they lump issues together is misleading: "brakes squeal when applied" is considered as big a problem as "brakes fail to stop car" -- when anyone clearly would see a difference in the severity of the problem. But shades of meaning cannot apply to a colored dot.

VW "reliability" in CR took a hit several years ago because of the 1.8T coil-pack issues. That was a big problem. But it didn't apply to the TDI engine or the 2.slow. The dot stood nonetheless. Ford "reliability" in CR took a hit more recently because people couldn't figure out earlier versions of Sync. Not saying that was their fault, but cruddy user-interface issues don't affect the reliability of the car unless they make you want to drive the car off a cliff.

Let the colored dots be a prompt to do your own further research on a matter. Do not accept CR's methodology as the definitive word on a matter. It's not good enough for that.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

You got any better data?

It's imperfect, but it's bigger and better than any other publicly available database out there. Heck, beyond the maker's own cars, CR probably has better data than the automakers have. The only thing that could compete would be some of the data from big fleets like GSA's and the bigger state and local fleets, which might be available via a Freedom of Information Act request. That data would be limited to the common fleet cars, and probably doesn't have enough VW data to make statistically valid conclusions.

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

FWIW, I've found TrueDelta reliability to be good to use for comparison. They could use more data points in some vehicles, but their methodology is better than CR.

 

[Powder Hound]

If you really wanted something that is somewhat objective, then you could get relatively reliable data for the first few years by examining warranty claims data and categorizing those. Throw in recalls and any other manufacturer sponsored campaigns, and you'd have a reasonable sample.

Unfortunately for that effort, manufacturers will fight you tooth and nail before they give up such information, and courts will not allow you to extract it without darned good reasons. Which probably don't exist. Your curiosity won't qualify.

So bereft of real information, various organizations make it up through various means. Among those means, one of the least objective, yet probably the most popular is the survey. Least objective? Just look at some of the comments on this site. You can find people who still love to hate GM (Ford, Chrysler, or take your pick) because of a problem with a car they sold 15 years ago.

Having said that, I will state that what Consumer Reports does not know about automobiles very closely approximates the sum of human knowledge on the subject.

And when their own mucky-mucks have an agenda, even the pretense of objectivity flies out the window. It is a truly reprehensible attitude in an organization that pretends, but does not actually practice integrity. Claiming to be 'non-profit' does not automatically grant objectivity, integrity, altruism, truth, justice, nor is it the 'american way.' Would that the nation's consumers had a clue of that.

Cheers,

PH

 

[HBarlow]

I agree with the criticism of Consumer Reports. CR can be somewhat useful as a data input if the consumer understands the fundamental weakness of CR ratings which most of the participants in this thread do.

We can see a parallel in this website. Most of us here purchased and enjoy VW TDI automobiles for many reasons but there are some among us that continually whine about them being terrible cars with poor reliability.

Some owners could destroy an anvil because of their poor driving and maintenance practices. Others can drive inexpensive second hand VW TDIs for hundreds of thousands of miles with only routine maintenance and minor wear item replacements.

CR loves to hate all heavy duty light trucks aka "one tons" and MOPAR Rams in particular. I've put over a combined 700,000 miles on three Cummins powered Dodge duallies over the past 15 years without any major failures and only routine maintenance. CR judges them with different criteria than I use.

I've been an on and off subscriber to CR for years. I subscribe and read their liberal biased opinions for a period of time then get disgusted and decide not to renew. At best their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Steve-o]

It's imperfect, but it's bigger and better than any other publicly available database out there.

Doing more of something poorly does not make it better. Chevy made about 3 million Chevettes back in the day; it was still a crappy car no matter how many of them they shoved out the door.

I've been an avid supporter of TrueDelta since Mike Karesh started it. His methodology is far more transparent and his organization is more than willing to mark summary data as marginal if the sample size is small.

CR protects what people perceive as one of their main selling points by being secretive about it. What they're doing is not trivial, but it's not rocket science, either. By all means, consider their conclusions. But don't accept them as gospel.

 

[rwolff]

CR loves to hate all heavy duty light trucks aka "one tons" and MOPAR Rams in particular. I've put over a combined 700,000 miles on three Cummins powered Dodge duallies over the past 15 years without any major failures and only routine maintenance. CR judges them with different criteria than I use.

Fun fact: From 1996 to present, the Big 3 combined have sold exactly as many heavy duty light trucks in North America as VW has sold normally aspirated TDIs. Can't recall the cutoff point (I know it's on one side of class 7, but not sure if it's between 6 and 7, or 7 and 8), but the break between medium and heavy duty is on one side of class 7. The vehicles listed in my sig are a class 1 and a class 8.

Light trucks (including the "one tons") are classes 1 through 3 (with the break between light and medium duty being between classes 1 and 2). Among light trucks, a X50/X500 (depending on brand) is a class X, so a Ram 2500 is a class 2, a Silverado 1500 is class 1, and an F350 is class 3. The classes are based on gross weight.

 

[South Coast Guy]

I agree with the criticism of Consumer Reports. CR can be somewhat useful as a data input if the consumer understands the fundamental weakness of CR ratings which most of the participants in this thread do.

We can see a parallel in this website. Most of us here purchased and enjoy VW TDI automobiles for many reasons but there are some among us that continually whine about them being terrible cars with poor reliability.

Some owners could destroy an anvil because of their poor driving and maintenance practices. Others can drive inexpensive second hand VW TDIs for hundreds of thousands of miles with only routine maintenance and minor wear item replacements.

CR loves to hate all heavy duty light trucks aka "one tons" and MOPAR Rams in particular. I've put over a combined 700,000 miles on three Cummins powered Dodge duallies over the past 15 years without any major failures and only routine maintenance. CR judges them with different criteria than I use.

I've been an on and off subscriber to CR for years. I subscribe and read their liberal biased opinions for a period of time then get disgusted and decide not to renew. At best their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

I apologize for the late reply to this posting. CR's ratings of vehicles comes from surveys completed BY THE OWNERS OF THE VEHICLES. They report the experiences of the drivers who live with those cars every day. Some people have had wonderful experiences with Smart Cars and Jeeps. I have had excellent experience with my JSW. But when I read postings here, many owners have multiple problem.

I can't see using actual driver experience is a weakness in the survey process.

 

[RabbitGTI]

The Toaster Testers at CR are useless. I have found a lot of truth in this site:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/

 

[South Coast Guy]

The Toaster Testers at CR are useless. I have found a lot of truth in this site:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/

All you see here is a small sample of drivers who had problems and found this website and reported them. What about the majority of drivers who had no problem? This is captured by CR.

 

[HBarlow]

I apologize for the late reply to this posting. CR's ratings of vehicles comes from surveys completed BY THE OWNERS OF THE VEHICLES. They report the experiences of the drivers who live with those cars every day. Some people have had wonderful experiences with Smart Cars and Jeeps. I have had excellent experience with my JSW. But when I read postings here, many owners have multiple problem.

I can't see using actual driver experience is a weakness in the survey process.

Here is why CR's opinions are of limited use at best.

I've been an on again off again subscriber to Consumer Reports for more than 20 years. During that period of time I've owned a lot of new cars and new trucks that have provided outstanding to good service. Some of them were rated poorly by CR. I ignore their opinions.

I've never owned an automobile that was a "lemon" or even gave me any problems. I have never responded to CR's surveys asking me to rate my cars and trucks.

I am a typical owner and CR subscriber. I never submitted any surveys describing all the good cars and trucks I've owned. Chances are that had I owned a bad one I would have completed a survey.

Believe CR's evaluations if you choose. I sometimes read them and do agree with some of their comments but overall I ignore them and make my own choices in cars and trucks. For refrigerators, washing machines, dryers, small appliances I consider their opinions more valuable.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Here is why CR's opinions are of limited use at best.

I've been an on again off again subscriber to Consumer Reports for more than 20 years. During that period of time I've owned a lot of new cars and new trucks that have provided outstanding to good service. Some of them were rated poorly by CR. I ignore their opinions.

I've never owned an automobile that was a "lemon" or even gave me any problems. I have never responded to CR's surveys asking me to rate my cars and trucks.

I am a typical owner and CR subscriber. I never submitted any surveys describing all the good cars and trucks I've owned. Chances are that had I owned a bad one I would have completed a survey.

Believe CR's evaluations if you choose. I sometimes read them and do agree with some of their comments but overall I ignore them and make my own choices in cars and trucks. For refrigerators, washing machines, dryers, small appliances I consider their opinions more valuable.

I still don't understand why you would ot complete a survey. Wouldn't your experience be of some value to a potential buyer?

 

[ezshift5]

.....CR rated my JSW highly (lot of red dots) just prior to purchase.............

.........and sure enough, one small issue in 46,000 miles. Coincidence (you be the judge).



ez

 

[john.jackson9213]

I still don't understand why you would ot complete a survey. Wouldn't your experience be of some value to a potential buyer?

For some people, everyone's experience is useful. Especially when you do a large scale survey like Consumer Reports does. The trick is to know the limitations of the survey. C.R. does not claim to they are the be all and end all of evaluation. They are simply (as their name says) the reported results of many consumers: Consumer Reports.

Their methods do not meet the Gold Standard of a medical study, so they are not statistically "perfect". That is totally correct, but it does not mean their information is totally worthless, just not statistically "perfect".

It is human nature to discount/deride sources of information that we do not agree with. Consumer Reports, perhaps because of it's sharper focus, brings that out more in some people.

Personally, I pay for Consumer Reports, I use their articles for a number of things. They are not my only information source or even the one I rely on much of the time. For me Consumer Reports is one data source I use. For car pricing information, they are most useful. I have used their Purchasing service as a data point in buying several cars over the years.
JJ

 

[kjclow]

Being in the middle of dieselgate, why would anyone be surprised that CR reliability rankings for VW products are slipping? Anyone that owns any VW is looking at it closer and thinking "if VW cheated the EPA, what else did they shortcut?"