VW won't relaunch 'clean diesels': cars may be worth a lot down the road

cevans

TDIClub Enthusiast, TDI Parts Ninja Vendor , w/Bus
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Hingham, MA
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2015 Beetle Conv. TDI 6-Speed & 2006 E320 CDI
GM can't keep the Colorado/Canyon Duramax in stock.
Thats because they aren't making any of them.

I don't think there is any denying that Dieselgate has had an impact on the future of diesels. BMW announced their 2017 diesels would be delayed due to extra EPA scrutiny. Mercedes pushed back plans for the C-Class, and maybe dropped the C-Class wagon diesel all together. As for Jaguar, I know they are on the website but I'm waiting until there are a bunch sitting on the lot to really believe that Jaguar has it figured out.

Chrysler is selling enormous amounts of Ram and Grand Cherokee EcoDiesels. But, outside of that, VW was the only one who really made a diesel "push". The Cruze diesel is near unicorn status. Mercedes, BMW, while they have diesels it is still single digit percents. VW was nearly 1/3 of all sales, and the vast majority of the top-selling Sportwagen was diesel.
 
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John Kuhn

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Rubicon, WI
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'14 red JSW TDI base model
Disagree 1000%

Take a Tesla vehicle:
300 miles( Max range new batteries), $19.20 to charge ($.16 per kWh, off peak California, 1st tear less than 2000kWh per month) = $.15625 per mile
Proposed road tax using GPS tracking (not yet implemented) $.07 per mile
Net cost energy and tax= $.22625 PER MILE

TDI
731 mile range (17gallons @ $3.00 per) $.1433 per mile
BUT that includes road tax!
I think your cost per mile math is off. A $19.20 charge cost divided by 300 miles is only $.064 per mile.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
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Arizona
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SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
Expect VW to continue diesel offerings in the Audi group only for North America.

I doubt you'll ever see another new VW branded diesel.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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Jaguar has three models with diesels: the XE is out now, XF and F-Pace to follow. Mercedes is expanding their offering with a new engine in the C and E class in 2018. The Cruze will have a diesel again next year. Chrysler has sold over 100K Ram Ecodiesels to date. GM can't keep the Colorado/Canyon Duramax in stock. The Grand Cherokee diesel is a big seller. BMW has the 3, X3, 5, and X5 with diesels. Rumor is Ford has a V6 diesel planned for the F150, and a smaller diesel for the soon to return Ranger.

In addition, if VW reaches its 85% for buyouts and there are no fixes (highly unlikely, IMO), there will still be over 70,000 CRs on the road. And we don't know what's going to happen to the 3.0s, nor do we know what Canada will do. Some rumors up there are for a fix only.

I think we'll be able to keep ourselves busy. :) And I still believe TDIs will be back.

Yup. I expect a great diesel renaissance in N. America (not joking). The "Clean diesel" slogan may be dead, but tdi's will be back. I think the hurricane has passed.
 

BuyMeBackSoon

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Or
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I suspect that somewhere a guy has a barn full of mint Ford Pintos waiting for the prices to skyrocket.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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A fellow in RI contacted me last week. He has a 1980 2-door Rabbit for sale. 7,200 miles. No, that's not a typo. Car looks new. He wants $15K for it. If it was a '79 I'd be tempted. I think he'll get his price.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
A fellow in RI contacted me last week. He has a 1980 2-door Rabbit for sale. 7,200 miles. No, that's not a typo. Car looks new. He wants $15K for it. If it was a '79 I'd be tempted. I think he'll get his price.

Depending on where it was built, a '79 could be the same car. ;) Because Pennsylvania production started in the '79 model year, so those could be either. I have owned both. I'd say the German one was better if for no other reason than the proper round headlights. But, the good news is, both the US built and German built '79 and '80 Rabbits were not all that different otherwise. Because a LOT of the parts for those US built '79s and '80s came from Germany anyway. It wasn't until the major restyle for '81 when the true Westmoreland Rabbit came to be, with many locally sourced parts. Those cars were drastically crappier than the early cars. Mainly the interior trim and materials. They were much more like a Grenada or Citation (remember those?) than a Volkswagen. And things like the wire harnesses, fusebox, shock absorbers, etc. were all locally sourced from a time when the American-made car industry was really at its worst.

Getting back to the diesels....

I have been waiting 3 months for my Sprinter, and it still has not yet been allocated for production. Since I was told it would still be a couple weeks at least AFTER its allocation until it gets built, I am pretty sure the 2016 I ordered will be a 2017. And that concerns me because those have supposedly a new engine, and it will almost certainly have to be certified fresh by the EPA, and in light of what is going on who knows if/how/when that will shake down.

I'm hoping I haven't missed my chance to get at least one last new diesel. I've already been pretty depressed about the possibility of never being able to buy a new diesel Volkswagen again, even though I probably would not have had a need to anyway unless the Polo TDI happened to show up here. I probably would go for one of those.

Ironic last night a ticker on the bottom of the news screen was saying something about higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere were detected... and here we are trying to ban cars that emit FAR less of that from our roads. :rolleyes: I don't think I've ever seen nor ever will see a ticker about high NOx levels in the atmosphere.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Didn't know that about the '80 Rabbits. But I don't like the dash, the headlights (of course), and this car was a 2-door, black on red, not my favorite. I've also decided that a '99.5 MKIV is about the oldest diesel I can comfortably drive anywhere. It's fast enough, safe enough, and comfortable enough. And I don't care about driving my '99.5 in the snow or salt. It's not a collector car, so who cares?

I'm excited about some of the new diesels coming out. If I was willing to throw money at a Jaguar I'd consider the XE, especially if they keep their promise about offering it with a manual. That would be a nice car. Just have to be willing to accept that it's a Jag, and it'll be worth nothing in a few years.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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I'm hoping I haven't missed my chance to get at least one last new diesel. I've already been pretty depressed about the possibility of never being able to buy a new diesel Volkswagen again, even though I probably would not have had a need to anyway unless the Polo TDI happened to show up here. I probably would go for one of those.
Ironic last night a ticker on the bottom of the news screen was saying something about higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere were detected... and here we are trying to ban cars that emit FAR less of that from our roads. :rolleyes: I don't think I've ever seen nor ever will see a ticker about high NOx levels in the atmosphere.
I saw a piece on the news last night showing how global high temp. records keep getting shattered month after month. I think the EPA is blinded by the short term threat of NOx, and can't see the forest for the trees.
 

grawk

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they're not blinded about the short term threat of NOx, they're actively trying to promote electric over diesel, and are using NOx as the way to do that.

The government lately loves to decide who gets to win.
 

waltzconmigo

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none

IndigoBlueWagon

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Keep in mind that everything VW execs say is being watched by the courts and CARB.
 

autdi

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Thats because they aren't making any of them.

Chrysler is selling enormous amounts of Ram and Grand Cherokee EcoDiesels. But, outside of that, VW was the only one who really made a diesel "push". The Cruze diesel is near unicorn status. Mercedes, BMW, while they have diesels it is still single digit percents. VW was nearly 1/3 of all sales, and the vast majority of the top-selling Sportwagen was diesel.
Agree on the pickups, not so much on the selling side on the Jeep though. Locally I can still get a 2014 diesel Grand Cherokee, that they have finally marked down to the point it's not completely obscene. No way I'll pay north of $45k for a Jeep, just not happening. The fact that some have a $50k sticker on them is just insane, it's a Chrysler! Around here, that means in 3-5 years you can see through the body, no way I'm dropping that coin on something that will disintegrate in under a decade.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Just FYI, the current Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango are based on an MB platform. But I know what you mean about the brand "stigma", and I'm sure that while they are on someone else's platform, they are very different and perhaps not a "good" different.

I know from my own experience doing some service to them that there are a LOT of parts on them that are bearing the ubiquitous "made in China", and you don't [yet] see that on MB products.

I have to say, though, that while I am no SUV person, I drive my friend's 2014 Grand Cherokee to work for service every few months, and even though it has the base Pentastar engine and is a pretty basic model, I am pretty impressed by just how nice it is to drive, and Fiat's interior treatment of all the ChryCo models, regardless of whose underpinnings they use, have been very, VERY good.
 

rotarykid

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but one in good condition will sell for between $4k and $5k.
I sold a 2 onwer 91 NA diesel for $4k a few years back, can't recall the exact date but it was in the 3-4 year ago range. It had ~140k miles on the clock all options SunRoof, CC, well working AC and perfect shape paint & interior.

That owner drove it for a couple of years then crashed it into a cable barrier north of Denver on I-25 @ ~70 mph when he had a health problem.

He had no trouble getting ~$1,200 out of it with fender & door damage. The new owner fixed the damage and is still driving it around! From talking to another friend who knows the car I understand the new owner fixed it for ~$1,500 in parts & paint....Nice driving & running diesel A2 Jetta for !~$2,800......

I'd bet that unless it suffers a complete total(body all twisted up and collapsed) where fixing it is not an option it will for years more be driven around with it @ sea level 52hp/71.5lb-ft tq without issue......

If that does not tell anyone who thinks diesel is dead here that their are people who still want them, I don't know what will......
 

k1xv

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southern Vermont
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09 TDI sedan, sold back 12/16. Present cars 2013 BMW X5 diesel, 2015 Corvette convertible
The Corvair, at least the later ones, were not bad cars, but they got a black eye and were withdrawn from the market. Years later, they are the subject of some enthusiast interest, but I think they are more novel than CR TDi cars, and the last ones were made almost 50 years ago.

In the first 10 years after the Corvair was discontinued, they were a dime a dozen.
 

sardo_67

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CT
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so who wants to pay full MSPR in 2017 for a "new" 2015 TDI......... I see them on autotrader for 30-32K
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
so who wants to pay full MSPR in 2017 for a "new" 2015 TDI......... I see them on autotrader for 30-32K

Ahem... *raises hand* :)

Seriously, though, had I the cash, I would already be down at the dealer.

Of course, if they had my 2000 Golf GLS TDI "brand new" sitting there right now, I'd probably rather pay the ~$20k it cost new instead.

They are not going to sell any more of these here again. This will be the very last chance any American has the opportunity to buy a "new" diesel Volkswagen, as I really doubt they'll ever bother with this market again. No reason they couldn't, as I am sure the EPA would allow them to sell diesels here so long as the proper regulations have been adhered to and that adherence has been verified, I just think VoA/VAG will instead choose to sit back and lick their wounds and push EVs instead. Which means for me, a lifelong Volkswagen enthusiast, that I have purchased my very last new Volkswagen. So I am treating the ones I have like they are priceless and irreplaceable, because in some respects they are.
 
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740GLE

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NH
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which begs the question, how much would it take to import a "crate diesel powertrain" to swap over from a TSI? $5-6K?

The MBQ platform should make it super easy other than the mile long list of parts.

I've seen tons of pictures of 170hp passat/golf alltracks.
 

marcusku

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which begs the question, how much would it take to import a "crate diesel powertrain" to swap over from a TSI? $5-6K?

The MBQ platform should make it super easy other than the mile long list of parts.

I've seen tons of pictures of 170hp passat/golf alltracks.
I've looked into this some. Besides the obvious mechanicals, there are quite bit of electronics that would need to be swapped as well. On Mk7's there are half a dozen control modules that have component protection so besides the ECU and instrument cluster these would all need to come from the same donor car.
 

KITEWAGON

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All this speculation of VW's thoughts and feelings of bringing diesel back to the US is interesting to me. We are talking about a giant corporation here. I think it comes down to dollars and cents. I have no idea whether they will or won't but I think it depends solely on whether they think it will benefit their bottom line.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I've looked into this some. Besides the obvious mechanicals, there are quite bit of electronics that would need to be swapped as well. On Mk7's there are half a dozen control modules that have component protection so besides the ECU and instrument cluster these would all need to come from the same donor car.
Yeah, a mk6 swap would be easier. Plus there are already brand new, nearly complete mk6 tdi crate engines for sale in the U.S. The ecu would be the critical part. And a tdi cluster. I'm tempted to pick up a spare ecu before they become scarce.
 

Rico567

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Jun 13, 2003
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Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
"TFTH: VW won't relaunch 'clean diesels': cars may be worth a lot down the road"

Yeah, I have an '86 model Toro pushmower, well used and much repaired, and I'm hoping for a similar outcome....
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
The SCR cars should be an easy fix, right??
All depends on what you call "easy." They're already starting to fix the 2015s, but it's a two-step fix, software first, then hardware and who-knows-what in the second step, to be performed at a later (??) date.
The other SCR cars, the NMS Passats 2012-2014 will probably have some software tweaks and consume a significantly larger quantity of DEF (the Diesel Emissions Fluid, sometimes referred to as AdBlue, which is like calling facial tissues "Kleenex." When this will be announce or performed, I dunno.
 
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