- Jun 4, 2008
- 06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
Really great point. I've always loved the diesels for economy, power and longevity. You mentioned gassers for fuel economy and power, but I still feel like the diesels will last a lot longer than the gas cars. Of course, gas engines last a lot longer now than they used to, though not in the neighborhood of TDI's as far as I know. Again, though, good point. I like the way you're thinking.However, the complexity of TDIs was getting harder and harder to justify when gassers have been improving in mileage and torque.
The other thing that people don't talk about enough is that diesel is not alone in increasingly complex emissions systems. These benefits you talk about, increased power and MPG in gasoline, come from the switch to direct injection - GDI. However:Really great point. I've always loved the diesels for economy, power and longevity. You mentioned gassers for fuel economy and power, but I still feel like the diesels will last a lot longer than the gas cars. Of course, gas engines last a lot longer now than they used to, though not in the neighborhood of TDI's as far as I know. Again, though, good point. I like the way you're thinking.
Which is it? Pretty hard to have better MPG and higher CO2 unless, maybe,The other thing that people don't talk about enough is that diesel is not alone in increasingly complex emissions systems. These benefits you talk about, increased power and MPG in gasoline, come from the switch to direct injection - GDI. However:
"GDI enables better fuel economy and therefore a further reduction in CO2 emissions compared to fuel port injection engines
GDI engines show significantly higher PM and PN emissions while compared to fuel port injection engines"
EURO and the EPA have caught on to this and are requiring particulate filters to be installed in GDI engines as well. Plus, GDI engines emit higher CO2 levels, requiring more expensive and complicated catalysts.
If diesel is done, gasoline isn't far off either. IMO all this crap misses the point. We're trying to fix the symptom, not the problem - the problem is that we drive too much. We commute too far, drive too far to go shopping, have pathetic public transportation systems etc. Plus, since there are no regulations on what we are ALLOWED to drive (I can take a 1 ton truck rather than my Jetta TDI, fuel economy be damned, whenever I please) all these regulations serve to do is unfairly harm compact economy car drivers with overly-expensive, complicated, hard to repair emissions equipment.
I read the article and the posts prior to yours, I have to disagree, or at least partially. I don't think we will see a new VW branded diesel in the US for at least ten years. However, we will see VWAG diesels offered through Audi, Porsche, Bently. Those brands will be better able to absorb the extra expense of the diesel emissions equipment.Mercedes is putting a fortune into clean diesel for MY2018. It already is clean down to 55 degrees ambient temp and I think they're aiming for clean at lower temps with the investment. It can be done. Maybe VW will rethink when they live past dieselgate.
The one thing they need the v8 for is mileage. I had a Charger a few weeks back running across Iowa. Cruising on I80, I watched as the car told me when is switched from 8 to 4 cyl to give better mileage.Yep, but those old cars' technology was not very good, the new stuff is much better in that regard. I recently had a Dodge Challenger in here, one a few years old, that was a V6 model. And this is the "old" OHC 3.5L V6.... leftover from the early '90s actually, optional in the first gen LH body (Intrepid, Concorde, etc.). A coworker noted how awful it was to see that engine in that car. But I have to tell you, that car has PLENTY of power. It probably would blow the doors off of any old school 318 cube V8 in an old Challenger or similar. I know it has a heck of a lot more oomph than my 318 Dart did, and it probably weighs more too. The newer Pentastar V6 is even more powerful... I think they are almost 300hp. That is a lot of power. The only thing a V8 is needed in that car for is doing burnouts. Well, they sound neater too.
Consumers are just power hungry, then rarely ever use it. Fact is you can go to any rental place and grab the cheapest, smallest, most miserable little penalty box turd of a car you can get your hands on, and even with its slushbox (or worse, a CVT) you can turn the key, it'll start right up, throw it in "D", and stab the go pedal and inside of 45 seconds be tagging triple digit speeds. That is pretty amazing, IMHO.
Agreed not before ten years. My point was that clean diesel is still here and under development. Eventually that may lead to technological resources or reverse engineering to the level that VW may use for a comeback. I remember when the MKVI were delayed when they first were released. A trusted mechanic joked that they were probably exploding on the regens. Almost, but more like VW was exploding themselves with defeater software.I read the article and the posts prior to yours, I have to disagree, or at least partially. I don't think we will see a new VW branded diesel in the US for at least ten years. However, we will see VWAG diesels offered through Audi, Porsche, Bently. Those brands will be better able to absorb the extra expense of the diesel emissions equipment.
Yup...every few years....it's a cycle...This is true...
From what I've heard about lawsuits, it's usually the attorneys that win (not the consumer). If you love the car, keep it and take the money. Also, think about what you'd buy if you sold it to VW. Is it the wagon, or sedan? If it's a wagon, there's NOTHING out there that will come close to your JSW, not to mention that it's a Cup edition.New to forum and would like some help deciding what to do in the few days remaining to make a decision. I put it off as long as I can. I LOVE my 2010 Cup Edition Jetta, now with 78000 mi on it -- Best car I've ever, ever had. But what do I do now? I have to make a decision in a few days. I paid more for it up front because of the "Cup Edition" and there is not much premium in the buyback for the Cup Edition. I've been solicited by a batch of lawyers to "opt out" of the settlement and let them get more for my wonderful car. Another Cup owner said he's keeping his as by the time the buybacks are done it will be one of the rarest modern cars around. Buyback, keep it and take 7K, let a lawyer get more??????? I just don't know
You know, I visited a local VW dealership to inquire about when the release would be for the remaining TDIs in their inventory. Drove a new 1.4T Jetta which I must say was not bad at all. Salesman said the move for all the Euros in America was to smaller turbocharged cars to make the mandated manufacturer future MPG targets. He owned one himself and said he's getting 35mpg all day on the highway at around 75mph. Don't know if it was a "sell" or not, so can anybody else confirm??
Anyways, VW would be over the moon smart to design and release a 3
cylinder diesel/electric car to the us. Buy the stupid batteries and design from Toyota or whatnot if they have to, but get 'er done!!!
They could take a (feigned) "We're so sorry for what we've done and we're gonna make it up to you big time with this jewel"...
I would think 80-100 mpg would be easily attainable.
It's all in the marketing. Marketing, marketing marketing...
Strangely enough, these are the same people that buy an entire house of double pane window replacements for $30- $40 K believing that they will "save" energy. They never ask to see the facts of the payback math.On the other hand if you bring:
* Midsize gasoline powered SUV 'sensibly' priced around $30K -- YES PLEASE
* Pickup truck with lots of horse power (torque is secondary) -- YES PLEASE