VW Won't Attempt to Regain Diesel Leadership in US; Many TDI Models May Never Return

Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
The edge CTS tuner that is on there has 3 tunes, economy, towing and extreme. The PO said he has never taken it off of economy. I tried it on extreme one time just to see. Man does that thing get up and go! I never saw 8k lbs launch so fast and get up and go. Turned it back to economy where it will probably stay from now on. Plenty of power there for normal driving.
 

SilverGhost

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Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Sorry, I think the AEM thread was locked and this seamed (at least partially) related.

When reading the TDI settlement page I ran across this in the FAQ;

How many parts are involved with the TDI remedy?
Gen 1 vehicles will require parts, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase I are software only. In an effort to simplify ordering, we will be provide "kits" vs. individual part numbers for vehicles requiring hardware.
3 hours is quoted repair time on Gen 1, Gen 2&3 are software only AT THIS TIME. Nothing official and when we asked about labor times "we cannot disclose at this time, pending approval"

I have hope for some TDI suvs as Audi already has stated that there is demand for their Q-series TDIs. But no EPA authorization on any 2017 except Jaguar. BWM and Merc expect theirs to be approved soon.

Jason
 

CALL911

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I have driven 2 new style Golf TDI's now (a 2015 and currently have a 2016 as a rental). Both are from my travels in Europe. I absolutely LOVE these cars, and really want to buy one. Unfortunately this scandal has made it impossible, and the news article at the front of this thread has made it seem that my hopes of buying a new one have now been crushed.

Is there any hope at all for buying a 2016 Golf TDI when the fix is done? Or will the EPA see it through to ensure all these TDI's are no longer on the roads?
 

tomo366

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I have driven 2 new style Golf TDI's now (a 2015 and currently have a 2016 as a rental). Both are from my travels in Europe. I absolutely LOVE these cars, and really want to buy one. Unfortunately this scandal has made it impossible, and the news article at the front of this thread has made it seem that my hopes of buying a new one have now been crushed.

Is there any hope at all for buying a 2016 Golf TDI when the fix is done? Or will the EPA see it through to ensure all these TDI's are no longer on the roads?
The 16 cars were never Certified for sale in the US so no on the 16's
the 15's you may be able to find one at some point.....
 

CALL911

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The 16 cars were never Certified for sale in the US so no on the 16's
the 15's you may be able to find one at some point.....
And I'll bet any 15 model I find someone will be asking more than it was new for a used one IF I am able to actually find one...

Thanks VW...


Looks like I'll have to hope that the new Chevy Cruise diesel hatchback can sell me what you cannot...
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
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Kensington, Maryland USA
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And I'll bet any 15 model I find someone will be asking more than it was new for a used one IF I am able to actually find one...
Thanks VW...
Looks like I'll have to hope that the new Chevy Cruise diesel hatchback can sell me what you cannot...
Yep I am counting on that! I have a 2015 Jetta SEL TDI with a 6 speed manual and every possible option including blind spot monitors front and rear collision avoidance and AFS HID Headlights and it will probably be for sale after the fix....
 

CALL911

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I have a 2015 Golf TDI SEL with DSG you can buy...



Was hoping for a 2 door that was to be released for the 2016 models that now will never come out. Also, didn't necessarily want the SEL model either. But at the point things will be in, likely I won't be able to be picky. Is yours a 6-speed? How much are you looking to get out of it?
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
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Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
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2015 Jetta SEL TDI
Was hoping for a 2 door that was to be released for the 2016 models that now will never come out. Also, didn't necessarily want the SEL model either. But at the point things will be in, likely I won't be able to be picky. Is yours a 6-speed? How much are you looking to get out of it?
There are no more 2 door TDI Golfs being made
 

CALL911

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There are no more 2 door TDI Golfs being made
Yes, I know this. Before the Dieselgate happened the 2016 model details had been released. Part of this info was that in 2016 they would offer a 2 door Golf TDi. In the base model (the one I wanted), the price was going to only be about $21,XXX. This was perfect for what I wanted and my budget. Now that the scandal has happened the 2016 models won't be offered, hence my comment before of "I was hoping for a 2 door for the 2016 models that now will never come out".
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
Yes, I know this. Before the Dieselgate happened the 2016 model details had been released. Part of this info was that in 2016 they would offer a 2 door Golf TDi. In the base model (the one I wanted), the price was going to only be about $21,XXX. This was perfect for what I wanted and my budget. Now that the scandal has happened the 2016 models won't be offered, hence my comment before of "I was hoping for a 2 door for the 2016 models that now will never come out".
yep....VW Bit the hand that fed them....
 

CALL911

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Indiana
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2015 Golf TDI
The thing I blame is the EPA more than VW on this one. It has gone above and beyond what it was meant for (hence the reason the co founder left a few years ago). Yes VW cheated, but the rules the EPA set out are not to protect the environment as much as they have for other money making agendas in my opinion. The market for diesels to the US is small for VW. That's why it's no surprise they just said, "we are done with this for the US". BMW and others make some amazing diesels that I also would love to buy but again they don't sell them in the US due to the EPA.

My only real hope here is that when Chevy comes out with the Cruze diesel hatch that it is a solid car. They plan on releasing a RS package of the Cruze diesel in 2018 so I can only wait and hope that it fits what I am looking for. The perfect car for me would be the VW Golf GTD (another model not offered in the US).

My old 2001 Golf TDi has 240k on the motor (315k on the body and everything else). I drive 700+ miles a week of 95% highway. Diesel is the only "good" option for me. My little ALH has done well, but it's old, rusty, boring, and exceptionally slow. I am going to need a good replacement in the next few years that has the longevity of a diesel, but want something fun to drive also.

Only time will tell, but we as the consumers here in the US are the ones who are getting hosed more than anything not being able to have any good diesel options anymore.
 
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bhtooefr

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The thing I blame is the EPA more than VW on this one. It has gone above and beyond what it was meant for (hence the reason the co founder left a few years ago). Yes VW cheated, but the rules the EPA set out are not to protect the environment as much as they have for other money making agendas in my opinion.
Citation needed for where the EPA makes money on the regulations that they're creating.

This is all information that you can get from FOIA requests, most likely, BTW.
 

VeeDubTDI

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"Facts?" More like one-sided assessment of what the authors think the EPA is doing poorly.

The emissions regulations were clear. Volkswagen made a conscious decision to ignore them and bring these vehicles to market in a non-compliant condition that was a direct result of blatant cheating.

If they didn't like the regulations, they should have said "hey consumers, we can't give you an affordable diesel option because of XYZ. Help us lobby your regulators to make this possible." The bottom line is that Volkswagen intentionally broke the law in order to help their own position in the market and to maximize their profits. Alternatives were available, but they didn't want to pony up the extra money per vehicle it would have taken for them to legitimately pass emissions.
 
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CALL911

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"Facts?" More like one-sided assessment of what the authors think the EPA is doing poorly.

The emissions regulations were clear. Volkswagen made a conscious decision to ignore them and bring these vehicles to market in a non-compliant condition that was a direct result of blatant cheating.

If they didn't like the regulations, they should have said "hey consumers, we can't give you an affordable diesel option because of XYZ. Help us lobby your regulators to make this possible." The bottom line is that Volkswagen intentionally broke the law in order to help their own position in the market and to maximize their profits. Alternatives were available, but they didn't want to pony up the extra money per vehicle it would have taken for them to legitimately pass emissions.
I'm not arguing that what VW did was wrong. My point was more that the EPA is wasteful with their money, and more than anything I wish the US was more like other countries in Europe that did not have the restrictions we do in the states against diesels.
 

bhtooefr

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The other countries in Europe, that have extreme smog issues, due to having extremely weak regulation of emissions (that can legally be cheated in so many ways that there's been no real improvement in NOx emissions since, depending on how you count it, either 2005 or 1992)?

And, they're realizing where they messed up, and are closing the loopholes, improving their test cycles, and adding real-world testing. This is resulting in automakers giving up on diesel there, and hybridization being a cheaper option.
 

CALL911

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The other countries in Europe, that have extreme smog issues, due to having extremely weak regulation of emissions (that can legally be cheated in so many ways that there's been no real improvement in NOx emissions since, depending on how you count it, either 2005 or 1992)?

And, they're realizing where they messed up, and are closing the loopholes, improving their test cycles, and adding real-world testing. This is resulting in automakers giving up on diesel there, and hybridization being a cheaper option.
I don't know that they are really "giving up on diesel there". I go "there" often and I regularly see brand new diesel cars and SUV's of many different car manufacturers. For every diesel car I see in the states, I see 20 to 30 in Europe. The Europeans keep cars for much longer than most people in the US do, but even so, there are TONS of new diesels sold in Europe. Just last summer I went to Germany and visited the BMW plant in Munich. BMW had 3 new models that were diesel (none of them for sale in the US). One had been tested at something rediculous like 60-70 MPG, had a top speed of 150 MPH and cost $24,000 USD. Cars I would have killed to own.

If they are giving up on diesel there, it sure doesn't show it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis (where it's safe)
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There are just too many to list....
They have been slowly progressing towards less expensive, thus gasoline fueled, cars on the low end. Which is why the smallest Volkswagen, the Up!, is not even available with a diesel, and their top selling model, the Golf, only has about a 60% diesel take and that is falling.

Diesels are still more sought after in the bigger, heavier vehicles, because that is where they shine more and they can be less expensive of an option given those vehicles typically cost more anyway.

But for trucks (smaller ones even), the diesel still reigns supreme. Ford had to rework a bunch of stuff for the Transit Connect when they first brought them here, which ultimately ended in the US-market versions just getting lackluster leftover previous gen Focus [gasoline] engines, complete with the power robbing fuel economy sucking 4sp slushbox. All the TCs in Europe are diesels, and most are manuals. Ford probably figured Americans think 25 MPG is "good", when the diesel + manual version likely gets 40 easily. :rolleyes:
 

bhtooefr

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The new Transit Connect has a choice between a 1.6T and a 2.5, both with a 6-speed slushbox. Mileage is a bit better, EPA 21/28 for the 2.5, or 22/29 for the 1.6T, compared to 21/27 for the old 2.0.

The thing is... what else could they have done? Ford doesn't have a good DCT, so it'd need a slushbox anyway (Americans won't accept a manual), and you'd probably be looking at EPA mileage somewhere around 26/36 (that's a guesstimate) with a sufficiently large diesel behind a slushbox, I'd guess.

Oh, and the Transit Connect now has a 1.0T gasser option in Europe.
 

nokivasara

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Sweden @ Lat 61N
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Yep, the diesel powered cars are in decline over here.
Last month gassers (I think hybrids may be in this group too) sold better than diesels, 51% vs 49%. :eek:
 

tikal

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Excellent answer in my view sir!

Other manufacturers such as BMW complied and VW did not because of their greed and goal to be "Number One". Is this something we are still debating?

We will see if GM and other manufacturers can make up the void of light duty diesels in North America (it will be very tough 'climb'). In the mean time it is good to use the TDIClub forum resources to educate ourselves and find out that thanks to the Argonne National Laboratories complete life cycle GREET model the light duty diesel technology is one of the top best environmental choices for passenger transportation (along with electrical vehicles using renewable sources of electricity).

"Facts?" More like one-sided assessment of what the authors think the EPA is doing poorly.

The emissions regulations were clear. Volkswagen made a conscious decision to ignore them and bring these vehicles to market in a non-compliant condition that was a direct result of blatant cheating.

If they didn't like the regulations, they should have said "hey consumers, we can't give you an affordable diesel option because of XYZ. Help us lobby your regulators to make this possible." The bottom line is that Volkswagen intentionally broke the law in order to help their own position in the market and to maximize their profits. Alternatives were available, but they didn't want to pony up the extra money per vehicle it would have taken for them to legitimately pass emissions.
 

Saggio

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Was hoping for a 2 door that was to be released for the 2016 models that now will never come out. Also, didn't necessarily want the SEL model either. But at the point things will be in, likely I won't be able to be picky. Is yours a 6-speed? How much are you looking to get out of it?

6-speed DSG yes.

My Buyback amount is $30,600.

So if anyone wanted it, they would need to pay $30,600.

Not sure what VW will do with it when they buy it back...
 

oprn

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Location
Coronation Alberta
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2002 Jetta
I have not read this thread through completely but I too am deeply disappointed in the demise of VW's awesome diesels. I have been a VW fan since the late '60's. The TDI was the only car in the VW line up that was really outstanding to me anymore. I will continue to buy and drive used ones until the supply runs out.

I cannot understand why anyone would sell theirs back to VW. What would you possibly gain? You are the looser in my mind, you no longer have one of the most dependable economical rides ever and you have to now go and pay money for something inferior.

Just my opinion...
 

oprn

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We were in South America a year ago and that trip changed my mind for ever on the pollution issue. Buenos Aries is a city of over 14 million people and in our week and a half there we never once smelled exhaust fumes in the streets like burns your eyes here in our cities of 1/10 the size. The air is clean and clear even though there was virtually no wind at the time.
The two domination fuels there seem to be diesel and natural gas with small diesels making up probably 50% of the passenger cars. Every car manufacturer imaginable is represented there including Ford and GM. I spent the whole time there with my eyes the size of dinner plates and my mouth open in astonishment at the wonderful selection of fuel efficient options available in their country! If only we had choices like that in North America...

Like others have said here, small diesels are not the problem to pollution, they are part of the solution! The North American regulators/protectionists have their head in the sand thinking that by eliminating small fuel efficient vehicles and replacing them with more gas guzzling boat anchors we will reduce pollution. What a bunch of crap!
 
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kjclow

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I cannot understand why anyone would sell theirs back to VW. What would you possibly gain?
What do I gain? Here's my breakdown of the buyback on the Golf. First, I get about $1000 more than I paid for it, not including the $1000 goodwill package that I've already spent. Second, I eliminate about half of my daughter's school loans. Third, I reduce my auto insurance by about $100 a month since I get rid of the third car.

In another year or so, I will start looking at what to do with the JSW. Take the fix, if available, and $5100, or take an additional $14,000 from VW to apply towards our next vehicle.
 

marcusku

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Location
Madison, Wisconsin
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I have not read this thread through completely but I too am deeply disappointed in the demise of VW's awesome diesels. I have been a VW fan since the late '60's. The TDI was the only car in the VW line up that was really outstanding to me anymore. I will continue to buy and drive used ones until the supply runs out.

Just my opinion...
My thoughts exactly. I was holding out for a 16' Sportwagen and now I'm wondering how to smuggle in a TDI engine into the country. On a side note, does Canadian law permit importing whole engines? I know the answer in the US is no according to the law.
 
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