VW Will Spend Billions of Its EV Development Budget on Gas Engines

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I think they lump all combustion engines in together under the same segment. While VAG got all butt hurt and took their diesels away from us, they are still alive and well elsewhere, and they just invested a bunch into the bigger diesels recently with Scania and now International.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
They also have swapped gas for diesel in the Audi S-lineup several years back, at least in Europe. The newer S4, S6, etc comes with the 3.0 TDI making just shy of 350hp stock, and 700Nm (516ft-lbs) in stock form.
 

lemoncurd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Eastern CT
TDI
2013 CJAA GTB2266
I think they lump all combustion engines in together under the same segment. While VAG got all butt hurt and took their diesels away from us, they are still alive and well elsewhere, and they just invested a bunch into the bigger diesels recently with Scania and now International.
one can hope they come to their senses and bring it back to the US when they get rid of that wimpy CEO and other board members...

VWoA specifically lost all their grit when dieselgate happened. they went into full damage control which makes sense, but their image has been restored since then imo.

even with my dieselgate car, no one really mentions what happened anymore
 

lemoncurd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Eastern CT
TDI
2013 CJAA GTB2266
the current VWoA CEO/President is Pablo Di Si, and he has some (imo) stupid view about electrifying the VW portfolio in america.

Oliver Blume is the CEO of VW Proper (Volkswagen Group), aswell as the CEO of Porsche.
Imo, he has his head on right. Porsche is trying damn hard to get synthetic fuels to work well at good cost

If i was in management at VW Group, i would start "fixing" VWoA's screw ups in the US by firing Pablo
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I think a diversified product portfolio is best, and EVs certainly can be a part of that... but they won't (can't) be all of it right now, or in the near future. That seems to be a hard pill to swallow for some folks, but that's just how it is.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Yep, with an electric-assisted supercharger.... :D
That's the one, supercharger assists on the low end and is part of the 48v "mild hybrid system". Darkside tuned one and saw near 400hp and over 600ft-lbs with just a charge cooler upgrade and tuning. I'll keep dreaming that would ever come over here though.

I think a mix of ICE and EVs is going to be the future for quite some time. So many people, myself included, that have multiple car households would benefit from an EV for close to home transportation while having something that isn't a pain to recharge/fuel on longer trips.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Diesels are the easiest to switch over to renewable fuels and have a lower GHG footprint that ethanol, if the government knew what they were doing they'd be promoting diesels as well as EVs.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Good description of EPA, in many ways an agency on a mission to zero out emissions even if it don't matter. EPA's own stats showed that diesel exhaust by the turn of the century was not a health risk except in a few areas like Southern California. But EPA went ahead and tightened emissions standards anyway, and we're paying for it. The costs are magnified by EPA's playing right into the hands of monopoly manufacturers, look at heavy trucks where EPA regs forced the manufacturers to merge down to only four and there are only two suppliers of exhaust after treatment systems.
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
An EV is a great choice for many drivers. They simply don't want to believe it. They insist they "need" a car that can drive 500 miles and refuel in five minutes. And for a small group of drivers that is completely accurate. But for the majority, the range of almost every EV available today is more than sufficient for 95% of their driving, if not more. I loved driving my Passat TDI, and even my old '80 Rabbit diesel. But I would now much prefer driving a smooth, quiet EV that I can plug into my garage and leave each morning with a full "tank" of fuel. It's now been 15 months since I sold my Bolt back to GM and I'm still forgetting to gas up my Taos because I was so used to charging at home. Since my wife is one of those with acute range anxiety, I'll be going back to a PHEV as soon as I can. I really wish VW would bring some of their PHEVs over, as I really do like VW. But I have to buy what is available to me here in the US.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
I'm one of those drivers- Week ago I drove 300 miles from my rural southwest Minnesota home to Duluth for six hours of a meeting, then turned around and drove 300 miles home. Over half those miles were 2 lane, driving times was about 11 hours so in that 17 hour day I had no time to charge. Would have taken two charges and a couple more hours, and no charging stations along most of this rural drive. I'm not unusual, and for millions of us EVs simply will not work even if we could afford them. Did my part for the environment though, getting 27 MPG on 85% ethanol renewable fuel!
 

privateTDIjet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta 2.0 TDI and 2014 Passat 2.0 TDI / Ive got a MK5 bentley manual, message me for a free diagram
Yep... my big caveat with EVs is the cost and the longevity and serviceability. When you can buy a 20 year old EV for $2000 and have it work just the same as it did new, then we may have something. Where are all the 2012-14 Nissan Leafs? :D
Theyre all over here in Quebec
 

T1MMBOJONES

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Milwaukee
TDI
03 ALH 01M wagon
i wouldnt hold my breathe but given that gm now uses a small TD, as a base engine if i recall, in their larger suvs even though they refused to offer a diesel suv post 6.5l for nearly, if not over, two decades is a potential sign. that said gm tends to be a little late to the game....
 

x1800MODMY360x

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Location
AZ, USA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL
I see one company trying to do Diesel Electric conversion kits for semi's and pickup trucks.

That is the way to go than straight EV.
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
I'm one of those drivers- Week ago I drove 300 miles from my rural southwest Minnesota home to Duluth for six hours of a meeting, then turned around and drove 300 miles home. Over half those miles were 2 lane, driving times was about 11 hours so in that 17 hour day I had no time to charge. Would have taken two charges and a couple more hours, and no charging stations along most of this rural drive.
I completely agree that your scenario simply doesn't work with an EV with today's technology. And there certainly are others that have the same use case. But I think your estimation that there's "millions" that have the same situation might be a bit high. The day will come (eventually) that an EV can meet those requirements. But I don't think we're close enough to say it's "soon". Maybe by 2030 we'll have the major battery breakthrough we're all hoping for. But for now they're all still just lab experiments.
 

T1MMBOJONES

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Location
Milwaukee
TDI
03 ALH 01M wagon
I see one company trying to do Diesel Electric conversion kits for semi's and pickup trucks.

That is the way to go than straight EV.
if its the conversion i think you are refering to i believe its essentially an EV with an onboard diesel generator which doesnt actually propel the truck but rather charges the batteries.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'm one of those drivers- Week ago I drove 300 miles from my rural southwest Minnesota home to Duluth for six hours of a meeting, then turned around and drove 300 miles home. Over half those miles were 2 lane, driving times was about 11 hours so in that 17 hour day I had no time to charge. Would have taken two charges and a couple more hours, and no charging stations along most of this rural drive. I'm not unusual, and for millions of us EVs simply will not work even if we could afford them. Did my part for the environment though, getting 27 MPG on 85% ethanol renewable fuel!
Why couldn't you plug in while sitting through your six hour meeting?
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I completely agree that your scenario simply doesn't work with an EV with today's technology. And there certainly are others that have the same use case. But I think your estimation that there's "millions" that have the same situation might be a bit high. The day will come (eventually) that an EV can meet those requirements. But I don't think we're close enough to say it's "soon". Maybe by 2030 we'll have the major battery breakthrough we're all hoping for. But for now they're all still just lab experiments.
There are many companies that are working on new battery technology and trying to figure out how to move it from the lab bench to commercialization. Then they have to get the EPA and NHTSA approvals in the vehicles before we'll see it on the lots. 5 years might be an accelerated timeframe. 10 years might be more realistic.
 

x1800MODMY360x

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Location
AZ, USA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL
if its the conversion i think you are refering to i believe its essentially an EV with an onboard diesel generator which doesnt actually propel the truck but rather charges the batteries.
Correct like what Diesel Electric locomotive are. They use the diesel engine at peak performance and fuel economy to turn a generator to power batteries and an electric drivetrain.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Diesel-electric locomotives do not have big banks of batteries in them. They have a main engine, sometimes two, that run the main generator(s) that the mover uses to run the traction motors, then a smaller engine that runs all the standard stuff like controls, lights, HVAC, etc. . Some do not have the smaller engine, instead use an auxiliary generator running alongside the main one, driven by the main engine. At least, that's how the ones I am familiar with work.

And they have a large array of heating grids and big electric fans to consume energy to load the generators for slowing down... again, no batteries to store this regen energy, they just burn it off in the form of heat.

Now diesel-electric submarines employ a big bank of batteries, for obvious reasons.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Why couldn't you plug in while sitting through your six hour meeting?
Nearest public charging station was a half mile away, I can't even verify it exists, and I can't walk that far. Given that the convention attendance was about 2000, I suspect the few chargers in the area were full. And my budget can't afford 300 mile EVs, so at least a couple on route charges would have been needed.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
They also have swapped gas for diesel in the Audi S-lineup several years back, at least in Europe. The newer S4, S6, etc comes with the 3.0 TDI making just shy of 350hp stock, and 700Nm (516ft-lbs) in stock form.
I'm curious if anyone here knows what the hp and torque specs are for my 2014 JSW.
I can't seem to find them on line or a gif of the Maroney label that was on the door window.
TIA Rich W. :)
 
Top