VW Still Believes In Diesels; Unveils New 2.0 TDI Mild Hybrid

[kjclow]

I came to that same conclusion. I wonder if it helps on the V6?

 

[tikal]

If you want to see the most advanced automotive electronics in the world you can find them in the Tesla Model 3. Head and shoulders above anything else on the market. You can literally see how much more densely populated the PCB's are just by looking at them. Next level stuff.
https://insideevs.com/evannex-detailed-analysis-tesla-model-3-teardown/

Tesla Model 3 is definitively a very advanced luxury performance sedan that is going to continue to sell well for people who like performance luxury sedans. So if you like, for example, a smaller Audi sedan TDI or gasoline for performance, looks, luxury, etc. then the Model 3 Tesla will be pretty attractive to you. No doubt.

The folks in America that do not want/need a sedan will not be buying a Tesla Model 3, a Bolt, a Nissan Leaf, a Chevy Volt, etc. They will be looking at the latest shiny non-electrical SUVs and trucks with 0% financing and as many years to pay as possible, forecasting that the cost of fossil fuels at the pump will stay comparable to 1980's level, more or less, in the next few/many years (depending who you ask).

 

[atc98002]

The folks in America that do not want/need a sedan will not be buying a Tesla Model 3, a Bolt, a Nissan Leaf, a Chevy Volt, etc. They will be looking at the latest shiny non-electrical SUVs and trucks with 0% financing and as many years to pay as possible, forecasting that the cost of fossil fuels at the pump will stay comparable to 1980's level, more or less, in the next few/many years (depending who you ask).

When I replace my Outback, it will be for something with a plug, and a sedan just isn't comfortable for this old body getting in and out. The Kona EV is attractive, but I'm waiting to see what VW is going to be bring out in the next year or two. They are showing off several cars with the ID tag that look interesting. Wonder if my VCDS cable is going to work on one?

 

[woofie2]

I came to that same conclusion. I wonder if it helps on the V6?

looks like they need more data on that one. only 1 V6 Gas/electric posted

 

[flee]

looking at the fuel MPG numbers, it does not look like the Hybrid system saves any MPG's-
RAM 1500 5.7 hemi
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?e...=&submodel_id=
The new 5.7 hybrids
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?e...=&submodel_id=

The fuel savings with a hybrid over a conventional vehicle will vary from 0 to as much
as 20% or more based on driving conditions and so will not always be observed by
the published mpg figure.
A hybrid driven at a constant speed on the highway will net 0 improvement in mpg.
A hybrid driven in stop and go traffic (difficult to standardize) will significantly add to
the mpg.
I can see this in my own hybrid, a 2008 Ford Escape.

 

[tikal]

To gauge meaningful differences in efficiencies of a passenger vehicle with a certain power train vs other kind of power train we need averages with at least tens of thousands of miles/Kms/etc. of MPG (or liters per 100 Kms etc.).

 

[Powder Hound]

...
A hybrid driven in stop and go traffic (difficult to standardize) will significantly add to
the mpg.
...

True, but in regard to standardization: isn't that exactly what the EPA city driving cycle is meant to do?

Cheers,

PH

 

[flee]

True, but in regard to standardization: isn't that exactly what the EPA city driving cycle is meant to do?
Cheers,PH

Hopefully yes. It probably is mainly about trip length and time in heavy traffic.
For the non plug-in versions the city mpg can exceed the highway mpg.

 

[casioqv]

A hybrid driven at a constant speed on the highway will net 0 improvement in mpg.

This is true, but in practice the acceleration boost of the electric motor means you can get away with a smaller engine that runs more efficiently on the highway because it's at closer to full load. I guess this doesn't apply to to the car this thread is about, because it still has a 'full sized' 2.0 TDI.

 

[JimInPB]

Aircraft starter motors are also alternators generating power. Ram is using a similar system for their new 2019 1500 Hybrids. The technology is coming.

I think that this technology has been around for quite a while. My 1960's vintage lawn tractor works this way. To add a modern twist with better efficiency, I know that regenerative variable frequency drives have been an off-the-shelf item in the industrial market since at least the 1990's.

The tough part with recapturing power in a car is having a place to put it that has enough capacity & a fast enough charge rate. Capacitors have the fastest acceptance rate, but only store a very limited amount of energy, even if they are the size of a trash can. Lead Acid batteries have a very slow acceptance rate, typically around 20% of their amp-hour rating when in bulk charging phase & much less when they are more than 80% full. The modern lithium based batteries have a fairly high acceptance rate & good power density, but they have other problems that are not well reported. First of all, the materials used in manufacturing them are very toxic. Second, the risk of fire is significant & putting out the fire can be a problem.

A few recent examples -

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/fl-ne-davie-tesla-crash-fole-20190225-story.html

https://fox6now.com/2019/03/02/tesla-burns-up-when-driver-goes-ice-fishing/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY

 

[[486]]

To add a modern twist with better efficiency, I know that regenerative variable frequency drives have been an off-the-shelf item in the industrial market since at least the 1990's.

heh
go check out 'subcooledheatpump' on youtube, he had a chevy express van with a 30hp six pole induction motor hooked to a cobbled together VFD, 600V of car batteries on the DC bus of the inverter

 

[turbobrick240]

The risk of fire is significant with internal combustion too. They catch on fire about every three minutes in the US. It's just that every EV fire makes headlines. So it's more an issue of public perception.

 

[turbocharged798]

An EV fire is infinitely harder to put out. There is plenty of evidence to support that. Once that lithium starts burning, there's no stopping it.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yes, they require a lot of water to extinguish. The good part is the fire generally developes more slowly than a petroleum fire, giving more time to escape.

 

[kjclow]

Actually heated liquid lithium will react with water, thus adding another complication in fighting an ev fire.

 

[turbobrick240]

It's not elemental Li in the batteries. Sort of like how elemental Sodium reacts violently/explosively when exposed to water but NaCl(salt) does not.

 

[BeetleGo]

All I know is that my 2005 TDI with a psaltry 142k miles on it will last until my Tesla Model Y is made with induction charging gets off someone else’s lease (5-10 years). I can wait, but will!

I thought Volkswagen had the answer with diesels on biodiesel (which I use to this day @ 5-20 percent). But Volkswagen spoiled the diesel waters right about the time that an AMERICAN car company showed me that they were serious about changing the automotive word. Look around. They did! Tesla is the one to beat!

 

[nwdiver]

my Tesla Model Y is made with induction charging

For charging while driving on a the road or charging at home? Home inductive charging is actually available now but there's a ~10% efficiency hit. IMO saving a few seconds plugging in isn't worth the additional energy... but it would be nice to not worry about forgetting. Though after awhile plugging in when you get home becomes a reflex.

 

[BeetleGo]

For charging while driving on a the road or charging at home? Home inductive charging is actually available now but there's a ~10% efficiency hit. IMO saving a few seconds plugging in isn't worth the additional energy... but it would be nice to not worry about forgetting. Though after awhile plugging in when you get home becomes a reflex.

Clearly you don’t park in the street in the city! They’ll have it figured out by the time I sign the papers! Again, I’m willing and ABLE to wait. 10% NOW. Things will improve.

 

[nwdiver]

Clearly you don’t park in the street in the city!

Hmmm... that's true. I don't expect the inductive efficiency to improve a whole lot. Steam plants were ~30% efficient 50 years ago... today they're ~33threeee % efficient? So a ~10% improvement? Only so much you can do with the laws of physics. ~90% efficient is probably pretty close to what's physically possibly unless we discover a room temperature super conductor.

I agree that for public and street side charging the 10% hit is probably worth it. Embed the inductive plate in the street and it's safe from vandals and you don't have to worry about the connector being sideswiped.

 

[BeetleGo]

Well, you aren’t the first to go TDI to Tesla! It’s the logical next step! Charging times are going down, and more chargers are on the way, so I won’t necessarily wait for cordless for every charge, but it’s convenient and the future. Ask Mercedes. Optional on their electric S.

https://www.slashgear.com/mercedes-wireless-charging-car-system-will-launch-in-2018-19492021/

Oh, and BMW too...
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...harging-options-for-plug-in-hybrids-next-year

 

[SilverGhost]

So I read this story; Japan, China researchers develop plasma-assisted MnO2 filter that produces zero-NO2, -SO2 diesel exhaust . Couple this with the gains made by Bosch engine controls supposedly able to beat Euro VI limits.

Jason

 

[tadawson]

The question then becomes one of cost, practicality, and longevity . .

 

[BeetleGo]

And aren’t we excited to have all of those early adopters? I see myself going electric in 5-7 years.

 

[Lightflyer1]

And aren’t we excited to have all of those early adopters? I see myself going electric in 5-7 years.

I am probably with you there. There is nothing to get excited about yet. The cars are hugely expensive for what they are and current battery technology just isn't there yet, by a long shot. Infrastructure still needs to be built out as well. I am glad for the early adopters as they are willing to throw large amounts of money at the issue with little regard to anything other than bragging rights really. My current 2015 Beetle tdi stop sale car should last me until the warranty runs out in another 10 years or so. Then I will check on what is available at that time.

 

[turbobrick240]

I am glad for the early adopters as they are willing to throw large amounts of money at the issue with little regard to anything other than bragging rights really.

I'm glad for their contribution too. There's no doubt that bragging rights and the cool factor play a role in many EV purchase decisions, but I think the overwhelming majority of early adopters are motivated primarily by a concern for the environment.

 

[Tin Man]

I'm glad for their contribution too. There's no doubt that bragging rights and the cool factor play a role in many EV purchase decisions, but I think the overwhelming majority of early adopters are motivated primarily by a concern for the environment.

While much electricity is produced by burning fossil fuel, I'm not impressed.

My 535d is rated among the best conveyances for CO2 emission environmental impact, and the X5 diesel "passed" the WVa NOx study.

We will see how the premium brands respond with decent driver-centered interior designs and better EV dynamics. It will happen as long as battery tech, IT, and charging infrastructure can keep their promises.

TM

 

[turbobrick240]

My 535d is rated among the best conveyances for CO2 emission environmental impact, and the X5 diesel "passed" the WVa NOx study.

I can think of many dozens of vehicles that get better fuel mileage than your 535d. A gasser that gets the same mileage per gallon is emitting less CO2 per mile. I'm sure it's a great car, but it's far from the most efficient.

 

[flee]

While much electricity is produced by burning fossil fuel, I'm not impressed.
(snip)
TM

Maybe you'll be impressed knowing that your area's electricity is produced
mainly by burning natural gas - vastly cleaner than diesel internal combustion.
Though not my favorite, nuclear reactors rank second producing 26% in your area.

 

[[486]]

Maybe you'll be impressed knowing that your area's electricity is produced
mainly by burning natural gas - vastly cleaner than diesel internal combustion.
Though not my favorite, nuclear reactors rank second producing 26% in your area.

cleaner, yes
more efficient? no
fuel to wheels is still more efficient than fuel to electric to battery to wheels