VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

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I have always disagreed with the settlement that if it was salvaged but brought back to working condition before Sept 15, 2015.That they are excluded

What do you mean by that? I successfully turned in my 2010 golf in April for buyback. It was salvaged and rebuild back in 2012 and I purchased in 2014. Seems the only exclusion was if the car was crashed before and still owned by insurance or junkyard on Sept 15th?
I think this exclusion was put in to keep the junkyards from trying to piece together and turn in all there old cars. Seems reasonable to me.

That's what I'm saying. Your car should not be excluded. You got lucky. You shouldn't have been able to turn it in. Your car is one of the reasons VW is slowing down the process.
 

drsven

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Regarding above post, user 2010golf didn't "get lucky" he/she had a valid claim. Their particular vehicle was likely "totaled" early and *was not* purchased from a junkyard after the cutoff. As far as stalling on salvage titles, I believe the hold up is due to a few things - First, the auditors need to confirm the chain of ownership. Second, multiple claims are likely tied to a VIN and they will need sort out which ones are valid. You can rest assured that multiple BS claims have been filed on vehicles, both salvage and clean in which the cars were posted for sale online. This takes time and it obviously wasn't something the court or claims administrators planned on encountering. If VW is reasonably working on this and taking additional time and precautions in order to deny fraudulent claims, the court will likely side with them on this matter.


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halbert

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From what I have seen here, there are at least 3 different groups of people with salvage titles that are trying to get buybacks. As one member of one of the groups, I do find being lumped with the others to be more than a little irritating.

I offer these three group types, and they are, in some ways, mutually exclusive.

Group 1 (the group of which I am a member) consists of owners who were involved in an accident after June of 2016, and were told "as long as the engine runs and it moves under it's own power, you'll get the buyback, regardless of title status", who then took a reduced insurance settlement to keep possession of the vehicle and get the buyback. We find ourselves lumped unfavorably with members of the other two groups.

Group 2 consists of those who had vehicles and who decided, before they went in for the buyback, to strip the vehicles of everything removeable that wouldn't keep it from running. They then (presumably) sold their boxes of parts at a profit. IMO, they are the ones that screwed it up for everyone else.

Group 3 are those who are working as vehicle brokers, for lack of a better term, and who are buying up salvaged but operable vehicles and doing the buyback on them. This may slow things down, but it's not in violation of the terms of anything--or even the spirit of it.

All I keep asking of VW is to actually put out a set of real guidelines for how they are going to handle damaged vehicles that will apply to all.
 

duratitus

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^^^ Group 2 was shut down a long time ago, so I don't think that the stripping harmed people that have legitamatly wrecked/salvaged tilted cars.
 

PacCoastFwy923

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To call Group 2 "a group" is disingenuous. Despite all the forum blather, there's not much evidence the strippers attempted to turn in vehicles in any meaningful numbers.

Besides, these cars weren't salvage titles, so this theoretical Group 2 shouldn't even be on the list.

That's not to say that the whole stripper phenomenon didn't cause friction -- it certainly has tightened up the buyback process. But I believe salvage titled brought their own unique problem to the table, in far more meaningful numbers than any stripped cars.
 

halbert

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I'll buy that....but it sure would be nice for there to be a consistent, understandable, and useful set of guidelines. It still seems like it's a random event that governs which vehicles are accepted and which are not. And the total lack of explanation about what is actually needed is maddening.

Maybe (based on the 3rd independent audit report), action will start along these lines soon...but I'm not holding my breath.
 

fookin

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As a proud member of "group 3" in the context of recent responses to this thread my speculation tto the snail pace is VW has serialized owner restitution claims and subsequent owner buyback claims and putting of the buyback claim until restitution to prior owner is paid. That detail is not in the settlement and there's no reason they can't administer claims in parallel. I wish everyone a quick ending.
 

DanB36

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1. The intent of the settlement is to take the cars of the road.
False. That is an intent, but not the (i.e., the only) intent. Additional purposes are to compensate owners for financial loss (and those who owned the cars prior to 9/18/15 have suffered financial loss), and to punish VW. Stating that "tak[ing] the cars off the road" is the only purpose is overly simplistic.

I have always disagreed with the settlement that if it was salvaged but brought back to working condition before Sept 15, 2015. That they are excluded.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with here, because the settlement doesn't say this, and it never has.

If someone gets in an accident. Sells the car to insurance. They have no claim.
If they get in the accident after 9/16/16 (I think, I could be off on that date), yes, they do have a claim.

I don't know if or where it states they should get restitution.
Read the settlement documents, it's all in there--specifically, in the class action settlement agreement.
 

tadawson

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False. That is an intent, but not the (i.e., the only) intent. Additional purposes are to compensate owners for financial loss (and those who owned the cars prior to 9/18/15 have suffered financial loss), and to punish VW. Stating that "tak[ing] the cars off the road" is the only purpose is overly simplistic.


Not sure what you're disagreeing with here, because the settlement doesn't say this, and it never has.


If they get in the accident after 9/16/16 (I think, I could be off on that date), yes, they do have a claim.


Read the settlement documents, it's all in there--specifically, in the class action settlement agreement.
You missed another key point . . . there is no specific intent to 'get the cars off the road'. The specific goal is to get the cars *COMPLIANT* with EITHER a fix *OR* a buyback. In *ZERO* situations is a buyback mandatory . . . .
 

drsven

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You missed another key point . . . there is no specific intent to 'get the cars off the road'. The specific goal is to get the cars *COMPLIANT* with EITHER a fix *OR* a buyback. In *ZERO* situations is a buyback mandatory . . . .


What is mandatory is for VW to repair *or* buy back *at least* 85% of the 2.0L vehicles by the June 30, 2019 deadline.


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Buyback less restitution

Has anyone had a offer letter come that had been on hold for a few months less restitution or reduced restitution
 

jibberjive

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Group 3 are those who are working as vehicle brokers, for lack of a better term, and who are buying up salvaged but operable vehicles and doing the buyback on them. This may slow things down, but it's not in violation of the terms of anything--or even the spirit of it.
I think Group 3 can be broken down further into 2 meaningful distinctions:

a. Owners of a previously salvage titled car that is currently fully 'rebuilt' and has already been registered and certified as a normal driving car (some states call it 'rebuilt' title, others still call it 'salvage', etc.).

b. Owners of a car that currently has a salvage certificate, and is yet to be rebuilt/registered/etc. (whether they crashed their own personal car and the insurance salvaged the title, or whether they purchased the salvage car from an insurance auction).

miltak from the previous page got his offer on a group a. car (he called it 'rebuilt'), so maybe they are planning on working through the group a. people and string out the group b.? Who knows.

I would be curious as to how many of us in this thread are group a. (rebuilt car)? I am.
 

DanB36

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You missed another key point . . . there is no specific intent to 'get the cars off the road'.
Let's say "get the noncompliant cars off the road". You're right, of course, that bought back or fixed does the job, and that there's no case where a buyback is mandatory (even if no fix is approved--though in that case, it'd likely be silly to not take the buyback). But both of those are orthogonal to the point I was making, which is that the settlements are intended to serve multiple purposes. To focus on one to the exclusion of the others is an oversimplification.
 
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Dan id love to chat with you

Let's say "get the noncompliant cars off the road". You're right, of course, that bought back or fixed does the job, and that there's no case where a buyback is mandatory (even if no fix is approved--though in that case, it'd likely be silly to not take the buyback). But both of those are orthogonal to the point I was making, which is that the settlements are intended to serve multiple purposes. To focus on one to the exclusion of the others is an oversimplification.
Message me on Facebook or LinkedIn. https://www.facebook.com/zoobie Or anyone else that has been haunted with multiple claims more than 5
 

eddiek12

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A little late to chime in here, but am currently sitting on many vehicles even submitted back in October. VW put a halt on all of our salvage titled units that were set to go back. 4 months in limbo, only thing VW tells us is that there is a new "total claims department" which has no direct phone number, or extension, and there are no estimated time frames for turn around times. Anyone else in the same boat looking to team up with private lawyers? Contacting Lief Carbaser did nothing for us.. wanting to hear from any others who have multiple units our there who have been in the dark. Time is running out little by little, lets move!
 

fookin

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A little late to chime in here, but am currently sitting on many vehicles even submitted back in October. VW put a halt on all of our salvage titled units that were set to go back. 4 months in limbo, only thing VW tells us is that there is a new "total claims department" which has no direct phone number, or extension, and there are no estimated time frames for turn around times. Anyone else in the same boat looking to team up with private lawyers? Contacting Lief Carbaser did nothing for us.. wanting to hear from any others who have multiple units our there who have been in the dark. Time is running out little by little, lets move!
Member named Fourplay stated in thread titled "..stuck at step 15" wrote he got results when he emailed the council.
 

jibberjive

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Hopefully VW sees this thread and sees that there are many people who's patience is wearing thin who are looking to possibly lawyer-up together, and they get their act straight before they add to their legal/bad publicity issues...
 

halbert

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Hopefully VW sees this thread and sees that there are many people who's patience is wearing thin who are looking to possibly lawyer-up together, and they get their act straight before they add to their legal/bad publicity issues...
And what makes you think VW gives a ratsa** what we think? All this is classic legal maneuvering to find just enough wiggle room in the process so that some small percentage of the injured give up and go away.
 

miltak

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The California lawyers and VW are still working it out.I was told that it's "slow" process.The way I see it-it will come to this scenario.
If you have salvage vehicle,that has been totaled after sept 2016 it would depend if the previous owner owned it on sept of 2015-then you may be eligible for buyback,but not compensation,if the previous owner bought it after sept 15 2015,then it should be full buyback incl. compensation.
BTW all claims are slow now.I have 2 clean titles never damaged vw's in process for 5 weeks and still no offer.Their excuse is "multiple claims",which happens when vehicle is at auction like Manheim or Adesa,possible buyers put it in they portal to see what VW pays for it-that creates multiple claims even if they never bought the car and never submit paperwork.
 

fookin

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The California lawyers and VW are still working it out.I was told that it's "slow" process.The way I see it-it will come to this scenario.
If you have salvage vehicle,that has been totaled after sept 2016 it would depend if the previous owner owned it on sept of 2015-then you may be eligible for buyback,but not compensation,if the previous owner bought it after sept 15 2015,then it should be full buyback incl. compensation.
BTW all claims are slow now.I have 2 clean titles never damaged vw's in process for 5 weeks and still no offer.Their excuse is "multiple claims",which happens when vehicle is at auction like Manheim or Adesa,possible buyers put it in they portal to see what VW pays for it-that creates multiple claims even if they never bought the car and never submit paperwork.
I don't believe VW can just Willy nilly change the terms of the settlement as your post suggests. Although not explicit, the settlement is very clear on how to handle buybacks for salvage title cars. They may postpone action as they have been doing with risk but they can't change buyback amounts without going back to court. I'm not a lawyer but that is my logical assessment.
 

miltak

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I don't believe VW can just Willy nilly change the terms of the settlement as your post suggests. Although not explicit, the settlement is very clear on how to handle buybacks for salvage title cars. They may postpone action as they have been doing with risk but they can't change buyback amounts without going back to court. I'm not a lawyer but that is my logical assessment.
The settlement has 2 important parts.
First NO DOUBLE COMPENSATION-if they pay to someone-they will not pay that part again.
Second: If you owned an Eligible Vehicle that was functioning and operable as of September 18, 2015, but was
subsequently totaled (and the title was transferred to an insurance company), you will be eligible for
benefits under the Class Action Settlement as described in this notice at Question 19. There is one exception: if your car is totaled after June 28, 2016, but before the opt-out date (September 16, 2016), you
are excluded from the settlement class and reserve your rights and claims against the Volkswagen entities.

So if the car was totaled after sept 2016 then the previous owner who sold the car to insurance company is eligible for the compensation,but not for the full buyback.
I spoke several times to Elizabeth Cabraser associate and last week he clearly said that VW paid wrongly on totaled cars like several of mine earlier this year .Since many previous owners raised hell,now they put all the claims on hold until they reach agreement.So VW may spent double compensation on those early claims,since they already paid and now they may have to pay the compensation to previous owners too.

Personally I don't like it,but I think it would be fair,that VW would pay half of the compensation-like the people who sold the cars after sept 2015,but before opt out date -to people who totaled their cars after sept 2016 and the current owner of totaled operable car would get buyback+the second half of the compensation.
The way I see it they will have to buy them anyway,because the settlement says so and the cars are in violation of clean air act,now it depends on "our" lawyers how will they represent us current owners,so we don't get screwed.
I was told by the lawyer,that they get tons of calls from people that totaled their cars and now crying ,that they got screwed by insurance company.THey shouldn't settle in first place and I saw some payouts on the cars and they were very close to money that VW would pay,so if they get compensation on top of it-that would be really messed up.
 

fookin

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Miltak, yes, I think we're in agreement, VW has to buyback eligible salvage cars bought by new owners after Sept 2015. However, the amount appears contradictory:

Long Form, page 8 for owners before Sept 2015 states: 20% of the Vehicle Value + $2,986.73, $5,100 minimum

Long Form, page 8 for owners after Sept 2015 states: "10% of the Vehicle Value + $1,493.365 + a proportional share of any restitution not claimed by Eligible Sellers $2,550 minimum

Executive Summary of Proposed Settlement and Benefits Chart states: These tables assume that you owned your car when the emissions accusations became public on
September 18, 2015 and that you still own it. If you no longer have your car or if you purchased it after
September 18, 2015, then you will be offered a lesser amount, assuming you qualify for the settlement.
Beginning July 26, 2016, you can see the exact Buyback and Approved Emissions Modification
payments for your car by visiting www.VWCourtSettlement.com and entering your Vehicle
Identification Number (VIN), mileage, and other required information.

So the contradiction I think is the last paragraph that states what the settlement website after Sept 2016 quotes you is the correct buyback price while at the same time stating that if you bought after Sept 2015 the tables for buyback don't apply to you exactly. The tables and the online quote match on my two claims - no difference.

The DOUBLE COMPENSATION is explained on sheet 3 of exhibit 1: No Double Compensation. Once an Eligible Vehicle has been remedied pursuant to an
Approved Emissions Modification and Owner Restitution has been paid to the Eligible
Owner (and Seller Restitution to the Eligible Seller, if applicable), Volkswagen shall not
have any obligation to pay any additional Restitution Payment for that Eligible Vehicle.

So in that latter paragraph it relates only to owners receiving fix restitution - and once they get it that's all they get. It does not mean that the next owner of the car from an insurance salvage sale does not get restitution.
 
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DanB36

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Miltak, yes, I think we're in agreement, VW has to buyback eligible salvage cars bought by new owners after Sept 2015. However, the amount appears contradictory:
The amount is contradictory because the class action settlement agreement and the FTC consent order are contradictory. The CAS agreement says what the long-form notice says: Owners who bought before 9/18/15 get full restitution, but owners who bought after that date get the reduced restitution. The FTC Order, though, says that the reduced restitution applies only to owners who bought between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16; owners who bought before 9/18/15 or after 6/28/16 receive full restitution. VW has, at least in general, been following the FTC order in this regard.
 

miltak

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Both are valid claims.It just shows ,that the lawyers didn't thought about these scenarios.Let's hope they will resolve it soon.Only positive thing is,that the cars sitting on my lot,are slowly gaining value,since they are not driven and the miles will help.

What makes me mad,that FTC order say:
C. Defendant shall administer the claims administration process efficiently,
expeditiously, and transparently, including by:
1. Accepting claim applications and documentation submitted by mail, fax,
and via the claims website;
2. Processing all claims applications and, within :cool::cool::cool:10 business days, or more
quickly if reasonable, either (a) notifying consumers that their claim
application is complete because it contains all information necessary to
determine eligibility, or (b) notifying consumers of any claim application
that is deemed deficient, the reasons for the deficiency, and providing
clear instructions on how to cure it. If Defendant notifies a consumer that
their claim application is deficient, Defendant shall have :cool::cool::cool:10 business days
from resubmission of the claims application to notify such consumer
whether his or her application is complete;
3. Notifying consumers whether they are eligible for their elected remedy
within :cool::cool::cool:10 business days, or more quickly if reasonable, of receiving a
completed application;

They ignore this time frame and the lawyers don't seem to care.
In the beginning their excuse was too many claims,but now it's not the case-they just violate the FTC order with no consequences.
For FTC signed:

Here is JON;(?fHAN COHEN
/ _yf.iCHELLE L. SCHAEFFER
y MEGAN A. BARTLEY
FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, CC-9528
Washington, DC 20580
(202) 326-2551 (Cohen); -3515 (Schaefer);
-3424 (Bartley); -3197 (fax)
jcohen2@ftc.gov; mschaefer@ftc.gov;
mbartley@ftc.gov
Counselfor Federal Trade Commission

How about we will send emails to these 3 people that work for FTC? I thing these people may care.
jcohen2@ftc.gov; mschaefer@ftc.gov;
mbartley@ftc.gov
 
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Mythdoc

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I'd like more information on who at Lief Cabraser, specifically, said this activity was "not in the spirit" of the agreement? (As alleged above). And what were the exact words used in that part of the discussion?
 

DanB36

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Thanks for that info. I was expecting consistency I guess and didn't realize there's CAS and FTC.
There are some odd inconsistencies between the CAS and the FTC--the ones that come most readily to mind are the one I mentioned above, and the fact that restitution for owners of totaled cars is only in the CAS, not the FTC order. There was a lot of coordination in drafting these agreements, so I'm not sure why those inconsistencies are there, but there they are.
 

GoFaster

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No matter how many times you check a big set of documentation, mistakes always slip through ... hopefully they're small mistakes, but sometimes they're big ... The people involved in the process have probably read it so many times that their eyes are blind to the little mistakes.
 
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