VW No Longer Approves Biodiesel for New Models

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geon116

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***They still do support the use of up to a MAXIMUM of 5% BD in the older TDI engines though!!! *****

That statement sums it up for me!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

POWERSTROKE

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm smiling you troll because all water is bad.....especially all the water in all the BD..... /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
This is 100% true. I have seen more than a handful of accounts of bio-diesel really destroying pumps and filthying up tanks. I say it is your car, do what you want. But let the truth be known. Bio is not a good diet for a TDI, especially B100. /images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

nh mike

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When a car manufacturer issues an "approval" for using a biodiesel blend, it does NOT mean that anything higher than that will void the warranty (again, they aren't allowed to do that by the Magnusson Moss act), and it does NOT generally mean that they found that higher blends WILL cause problems. What it means is that that is the highest blend they have tested in all of their vehicles, and will not issue an "approval" for something they have not tested. An approval is essentially their way of telling customers that they have tested it, and found it to be fine. As an example I have mentioned before here - the manager for alternative fuels for GM for this region was at a meeting I was involved in a few months ago. He stated what I said about quite clearly. He also stated that GM had just completed testing of B20 in their diesel vehicles, and was about to issue an "approval" for B20 use, going beyond their previous B5 approval. If enough customers are using higher blends, they'll go higher than that. The fact that any particular automotive company has only issued an approval for B5 or any other blend, does NOT mean that they found that higher blends cause problems.

The reports from Bosch and VW that SkyPup is again misquoting were quite clear about stating that the problems they found were due to poor quality fuel - the same reports also talked about many cases of problems from poor quality petro diesel - of course you'll never see SkyPup mentioning those. The reports state nowhere that biodiesel will kill a TDI, whether PD or otherwise. They did quite clearly state that POOR QUALITY biodiesel (or petro diesel) will most likely cause problems - which is exactly what we've been saying here for a long time. VW's temporary moving away from biodiesel in Europe is entirely due to problems they have been having with poor quality fuel, and especially with people using very high biodiesel blends without additives in the winter, including tallow and WVO biodiesel. Homebrewing is FAR FAR more common in Europe than it is in the US, and is responsible for a very large number of the problems. That's likely one reason that VW chose to form the agreement with ADM, to try to work towards better quality control of the biodiesel industry in Europe, and to keep quality control high in the US.
 
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SkyPup

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[ QUOTE ]
***They still do support the use of up to a MAXIMUM of 5% BD in the older TDI engines though!!! *****

That statement sums it up for me!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Eggsactly! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

POWERSTROKE

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In all seriousness, what is so hard to understand about this topic? VW sells diesels in the U.S., with the understanding that we use #2 Fuel (diesel) that is what it says in my manual. They obviously know the quality of the fuel here, as did Mercedes before they pulled their market share out. It seems to me like VW knows what the TDI can and cannot handle when it comes to putting fuel in. VW simply states that Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company. We can argue until the cows come home. Again, you can pour bio in your tank, and also at your own silly expense, but why? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

Sappington

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[ QUOTE ]
posted by SkyPup: Interesting what page you are on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sheesh. This post is 10+ pages long. I've gone back through all your posts and haven't seen a link that was labeled "VWAG", unless that was what the dieselforums one pointed to. I also saw that someone else nicely asked for the same link on the first page of this post. Clearly I missed your reference somewhere along the way, so if you'd be so kind as to pleeeease take a minute out of your obviously very busy day and re-post the link, I'd really appreciate it. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
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SkyPup

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Do you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and do you own any shares in Volkswagen AG?

Obivously not or else you'd have read about this by now.... /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
[ QUOTE ]
SP, are you feeling better?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, still felling the same. How about you though, hope you feel better soon!
 

Sappington

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[ QUOTE ]
Do you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and do you own any shares in Volkswagen AG?

[/ QUOTE ]
Aha! A hint! So, if we search Wall Street Journal, you're saying we'll finally find this reference?

[ QUOTE ]
Obivously not or else you'd have read about this by now....

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, is that another hint? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Are you trying to say that I'm outside the norm or something? Do most people on this forum subscribe to Wall Street Journal and/or own shares in VWAG? /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

nh mike

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[ QUOTE ]
In all seriousness, what is so hard to understand about this topic? VW sells diesels in the U.S., with the understanding that we use #2 Fuel (diesel) that is what it says in my manual. They obviously know the quality of the fuel here, as did Mercedes before they pulled their market share out. It seems to me like VW knows what the TDI can and cannot handle when it comes to putting fuel in. VW simply states that Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company.

[/ QUOTE ]
I find it really humorous that you start out by stating "what is so hard to understand about this topic?", then you go on to demonstrate exactly why there is so much confusion - it's because people (such as yourself now) continue to make completely false statements. In your case, the statement "VW simply states that Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company." This is utterly and completely wrong. If that statement were true, why would VW recently have signed a big agreement with ADM to work on increasing the use of biodiesel? (see here , since you apparently didn't read any of the threads on this forum that discussed it. The agreement is "a joint research agreement aimed at further developing and utilizing biodiesel fuels for the automotive industry". Now, WHY would they undertake such an agreement if, as you say, "Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company"?

The answer is that your statement is completely false - yet you and others here continue to make this claim. VW has been involved with biodiesel for many years, and continues to increase its involvement. They briefly moved away from biodiesel produced through transesterification of vegetable oils (when they started focusing more on their own process for producing biodiesel through gassification and Fischer Tropsch synthesis of biomass. But, they've found that the process is currently too expensive for it to be marketable anytime soon).

If SkyPup would post the documents in which he claims VW says essentially "all biodiesel will kill our cars" (exageration of course), you'd see that they specifically focus on POOR QUALITY BIODIESEL. The same as Bosch's papers on it, they focus on problems that they have found due to poor quality biodiesel, and improper use (i.e. using B100 in the winter).

[ QUOTE ]
We can argue until the cows come home.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, especially when people such as yourself continue to base their arguments upon completely false statements. It makes it easier to argue when you don't need to worry about being correct, doesn't it?

[ QUOTE ]
Again, you can pour bio in your tank, and also at your own silly expense, but why? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Because:
1. I don't want any more of our soldiers to have to die securing oil reserves
2. The US's economy is hurt very badly by the $100 billion + that we spend every year buying oil from foreign countries.
3. The whole greenhouse issue, which I know many people here think is a bag of lies spread by greenpeace. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

nh mike

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal and do you own any shares in Volkswagen AG?

[/ QUOTE ]
Aha! A hint! So, if we search Wall Street Journal, you're saying we'll finally find this reference?

[ QUOTE ]
Obivously not or else you'd have read about this by now....

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, is that another hint? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Are you trying to say that I'm outside the norm or something? Do most people on this forum subscribe to Wall Street Journal and/or own shares in VWAG? /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. Those are just bluffs SkyPup is using to try to distract you, hoping you'll forget about it, or everyone will assume that he did in fact read something (other than his own words) that said what he claimed. SkyPup's motivation is most likely the fact that he has a lot of land, and gets the USDA to pay him to not grow anything on it. If biodiesel use increases, the USDA may stop paying landowners to just sit on their land. We've caught him many times before plagiarizing and altering the key conclusions of scientific papers to try to back his ridiculous arguments. Troll in the truest sense of the word.
 

POWERSTROKE

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In all seriousness, what is so hard to understand about this topic? VW sells diesels in the U.S., with the understanding that we use #2 Fuel (diesel) that is what it says in my manual. They obviously know the quality of the fuel here, as did Mercedes before they pulled their market share out. It seems to me like VW knows what the TDI can and cannot handle when it comes to putting fuel in. VW simply states that Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company.

[/ QUOTE ]
If that statement were true, why would VW recently have signed a big agreement with ADM to work on increasing the use of biodiesel? (see here , since you apparently didn't read any of the threads on this forum that discussed it. The agreement is "a joint research agreement aimed at further developing and utilizing biodiesel fuels for the automotive industry".

[ QUOTE ]

Because:
1. I don't want any more of our soldiers to have to die securing oil reserves

[/ QUOTE ] /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Liberal lies. We are not in Iraq for oil.
[ QUOTE ]
2. The US's economy is hurt very badly by the $100 billion + that we spend every year buying oil from foreign countries.

[/ QUOTE ]
Our economy is hurt badly? /images/graemlins/grin.gif Please explain...We have the best economy in the entire world.
[ QUOTE ]
3. The whole greenhouse issue, which I know many people here think is a bag of lies spread by greenpeace. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Of course it is a lie. this was the coldest winter NYC had in 50 years. Greenhouse effect? where?
Biodiesel is experimental. I think that is the most fair and objective point to make right now. Yes, you can get a bad batch of dino fuel, but you can also get a bad car from the factory, or get a bad t.v......what is the point in this equivalence that does not exist?
 

dieseldorf

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guys, you're making me deeply regret the fact that I bumped this thread up.

My only intent, as stated above, was to make the many new PD folks aware of a potential cold-weather problem...not debate bioDiesel as the fuel of future. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

POWERSTROKE

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[ QUOTE ]
guys, you're making me deeply regret the fact that I bumped this thread up.

My only intent, as stated above, was to make the many new PD folks aware of a potential cold-weather problem...not debate bioDiesel as the fuel of future. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
 

dieseldorf

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[ QUOTE ]
I am not fighting, just trying to let others know the other/flip side of the coin to Bio-diesel. It is not perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank, most understand that it's a work-in-progress and is getting better all the time. We just have a little "catching up" to do. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 

geon116

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Yep. I plan on running B100 in my (if I get my hands on one) new Passat tdi. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

RoyalT3

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What an interesting turn this thread has taken.

I have 1,133 miles on my new 2004 PD TDI. I am just about to finish my first tank of BD mix. It is about B66 by my estimation. So far so good!

Nice easy starting, no smoke from a cold start (like I had with the dealer supplied tank of Petrol Diesel)...I love the car! Oh, and it's been down in the 20's here at night lately. Not real cold, but cold enough.

And I can't forget how good the mileage is...even doing the hard driving break in procedure.
 

Geordi

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Biodiesel is not a dangerous fuel when created properly. Here is what the inside of an injection pump with 35 THOUSAND CONTINUOUS MILES looks like:




Don't feed the trolls. You know who they are, if you ignore them eventually they will go away.
 

H-towner

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


2. The US's economy is hurt very badly by the $100 billion + that we spend every year buying oil from foreign countries.


[/ QUOTE ]

Our economy is hurt badly? Please explain...We have the best economy in the entire world.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorta like "Dirty gas isn't hurting my engine: my car's still the fastest on the block."

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


3. The whole greenhouse issue, which I know many people here think is a bag of lies spread by greenpeace.



[/ QUOTE ]


Of course it is a lie. this was the coldest winter NYC had in 50 years. Greenhouse effect? where?

[/ QUOTE ]
And that's sorta like "We'll never run out of oil: they just found more in Russia" or "There's no inflation: computers keep getting cheaper."
 

jackbombay

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[ QUOTE ]
3. The whole greenhouse issue, which I know many people here think is a bag of lies spread by greenpeace.



[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it is a lie. this was the coldest winter NYC had in 50 years. Greenhouse effect? where?

[/ QUOTE ]

The effects of global warming are not warmer temperatures everywhere, the effects are more extreme wether paterns.

-Jack
 

MITBeta

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[ QUOTE ]
guys, you're making me deeply regret the fact that I bumped this thread up.

My only intent, as stated above, was to make the many new PD folks aware of a potential cold-weather problem...not debate bioDiesel as the fuel of future. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering what could possibly have caused you to throw rocks at a hornets' nest....
 

RC

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[ QUOTE ]

Because:
1. I don't want any more of our soldiers to have to die securing oil reserves

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Liberal lies. We are not in Iraq for oil.


[/ QUOTE ]

Frank,
I believe this nation`s brave soldiers are coming home from Iraq in body bags and mamed for a few reasons, the fact that they are sitting on so much oil is at the top of the list. Let me phrase the question in this way for you my friend; Do you believe we would be there if they had no oil?

BTW, I realize we Bioneers are all part of an experiment in finding a more safe, secure, sane, cleaner, and sustainable transportation system....clearly this energy system we are on has no future, unless of course you are an ignorant/ancient oil company or a politician with not much more going for you than fear and being a shill for the petro industry. If all we have to worry about is that we may have to replace our injector pumps somewhat prematurely (and I`ve yet to be convinced that this is the case...mind still open though) then so be it. This would be a small price for us to pay in order to practice what we believe very strongly in.

And you need to do some real research as to what "climate change" is all about.
 

dieseldorf

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[ QUOTE ]
I was wondering what could possibly have caused you to throw rocks at a hornets' nest....

[/ QUOTE ]


Sheesh, if I had known that this was going to be the result, I never would have bumped this up. As stated above, my only concern was for those running BD in their PDs...nothing else.

I also believe that BD has a bright future...some of the handling/delivery just requires a little "fine tuning". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

nh mike

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In all seriousness, what is so hard to understand about this topic? VW sells diesels in the U.S., with the understanding that we use #2 Fuel (diesel) that is what it says in my manual. They obviously know the quality of the fuel here, as did Mercedes before they pulled their market share out. It seems to me like VW knows what the TDI can and cannot handle when it comes to putting fuel in. VW simply states that Bio diesel is not a fuel that is supported by their company.

[/ QUOTE ]
If that statement were true, why would VW recently have signed a big agreement with ADM to work on increasing the use of biodiesel? (see here , since you apparently didn't read any of the threads on this forum that discussed it. The agreement is "a joint research agreement aimed at further developing and utilizing biodiesel fuels for the automotive industry".

[ QUOTE ]

Because:
1. I don't want any more of our soldiers to have to die securing oil reserves

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Liberal lies. We are not in Iraq for oil.


[/ QUOTE ]
Oh right, we're in there because of the WMDs. Oh wait, they didn't have any (and the UN inspectors prior to the war were pretty much unanimous in saying that they didn't believe Iraq did - but why trust the only human intelligence on the ground in there, when you can make up whatever intelligence you want). Or maybe it was because of all of the Al Quaeda in there - oh wait, there weren't any Al Quaeda there until we turned it into a lawless state. Let's see... what's left? Oh, now let's claim it was about spreading democracy to the middle east. Never mind that Bush had no interest in helping Yemen build their democracy (and they actually overthrew their dictatorship without any help, and have been begging for any assistance in setting up their democracy, and rebuilding their country - but Bush ignored them. COuldn't have been because their oil wells are too small and depleted - he must have just known that they were insincere about wanting a democracy. And when they were begging for help in kicking terrorists out of their country, they were probably lying too). The country in the middle east that not only developed WMDs (nukes), but also gave the technology to other countries (Iran, Libya, and North Korea), AND has refused to allow our military to cross the borders looking for Al Quaeda is... Pakistan. Not Iraq - Pakistan. Bush has punished them by giving them nearly $1 billion in aid. But let's ignore that, and pretend that Bush's concern has really been hunting terrorists and keeping WMDs out of their hands - even though the country that poses a threat in that manner in the middle east he's been giving aid to. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Sure, all liberal lies.

Never mind that the API (American Petroleum Insitute) put out a report roughly a year before the invasion of Iraq, stating the great need to open up Iraq's oil fields to prevent worldwide demand from exceeding worldwide supply - which we're very close to having happen. Those API folk must be a bunch of lying liberals too, eh?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. The US's economy is hurt very badly by the $100 billion + that we spend every year buying oil from foreign countries.

[/ QUOTE ]
Our economy is hurt badly? /images/graemlins/grin.gif Please explain...We have the best economy in the entire world.

[/ QUOTE ]
What planet are you living on?

1. Explain to me how having to spend >$100 billion a year just to buy oil from other countries is anything other than bad for our economy.
2. Explain to me how our economy is so great when over 2 million people have lost their jobs here in the past few years.
3. Explain to me how our economy could be the best in the world when leaders of foreign countries (mostly some European ones and a few Asian ones (Japan, etc.)) have been appealing to Bush to do something about our massive deficit and other economic problems since they are starting to hurt other economies around the world (by weakening the US dollar considerably).

Let me guess - you agree with Bush's economy advisor that it's good for the US when companies lay off Americans and outsource their jobs overseas? Would it be good if you were laid off, and your company hired someone in India instead? How would that benefit our economy - or you?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. The whole greenhouse issue, which I know many people here think is a bag of lies spread by greenpeace. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Of course it is a lie. this was the coldest winter NYC had in 50 years. Greenhouse effect? where?

[/ QUOTE ]
Once again - read the long thread we've had about this. "Global warming" is a misnomer. "Global CLimate Change" is the proper term. THe initial warming results in melting of the polar caps, which decreases the salinity of the oceans, resulting in a slow down (and potential complete shut down) of the ocean currents (such as the Gulf Stream) which regulate temperatures worldwide. The result being some places get much hotter (due to the greenhosue effect itself combined with the ocean currents not pulling heat from their environment) - while other places get much colder. This was predicted by scientists years ago - that the slowing down of the Gulf Stream (which has already been observed) would result in the eastern US (which includes NY) and western Europe experiencing colder weather.

I've explained this (with links to online papers) many times here before - I know you prefer to not bother reading about it, since then you wouldn't be able to so easily dismiss it.

[ QUOTE ]
Biodiesel is experimental. I think that is the most fair and objective point to make right now.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? How many more tens of millions of miles need to be driven on it before it will no longer be considered "experimental"? It doesn't matter that there are many people with 100k miles or more on their vehicles with B100, since you haven't used it, it must be experimental, right? How about the fact that almost the entire US military is using it in almost all of their diesel vehicles? Without a SINGLE problem caused by it - it's still experimental, right?

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you can get a bad batch of dino fuel, but you can also get a bad car from the factory, or get a bad t.v......what is the point in this equivalence that does not exist?

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh?
 

POWERSTROKE

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Whatever. I have ten dead friends that were in the WTC. In my mind, There do not need to be WMD's. Whatever floats your boat. I work in NYC and was there that day. Were you? It's sickening. I went to twenty funerals in the span of 2 months. Whatever you want to think is fine with me.
 
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