VW Morons!

Joester

Vendor
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2002 Golf TDI
That article was an interesting read. I'm glad the TDI did so well! Sometimes I wish they would use the older MKIVs and see how they do against brand new civics and cruzes I bet they would fare very well!
 

BRUSSELS BELGIAN

Old Whig
Joined
May 26, 1999
Location
Aston,Pa. USA
TDI
1997 Passat TDI
Use It Or Lose IT

The sad reason for this is that one of my 5:eek: degrees is one in German language. But if you study a language for 8 years (1972-1980), but then do not use it for 31 years, that is about all that is left. I read Goethe's Faust in German years ago, now I'm reduced to eavesdropping on Amish folks, and occasional Yiddish; other than that, I'm functionally (German) illiterate...:(
 

SnowCub

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Location
Bedford, MA
TDI
2013 S350 BlueTec
As far as Benzes and maintenance worries, think about it: we all worry about a "big bill" owning a Benz, and then spend years paying a whole bunce of small and medium bills on the VW's. Do you like your suffering in one good shot, or dragged out in a constant slow torture?:)
A little late to this party but I feel inspired since I sold my wife's Toyota Highlander today. Since I've kept some decent records on maintenance costs and what not, I thought I would post some figures from my ownership experience of VW, Mercedes and Toyota:

2001 Passat 1.8T
Bought: New
Owned: 5.1 years
Miles put on: 102,386
Miles when sold: 102,386
Repairs & Maintenance: $3,261

1996 Passat TDI B4V
Bought: Used
Owned: 2.7 years
Miles put on: 18,970
Miles when sold: 185,209
Repairs & Maintenance: $9,250

1998 Mercedes E300D
Bought: Used
Owned: 3 years
Miles put on: 46,214
Miles when sold: 217,214
Repairs & Maintenance: $15,010

2000 Golf GL TDI
Bought: Used
Owned: 5.8 years
Miles put on: 94,304
Miles when sold: 172,054
Repairs & Maintenance: $20,472

2002 Toyota Highlander (Wife's)
Bought: Used
Owned: 7 years
Miles put on: 106,301
Miles when sold: 121,287
Repairs & Maintenance: $9,706

Hmm, that's sobering. Lug_nut always told me not to look at those numbers. But here they are, all together in one post. Yuck.

Not sure what my point is, except I don't think the Mercedes is all that bad. If I kept the B4V any longer, I'm sure it would have creamed the Mercedes repair costs. The Golf is a story unto itself. Which I've "published" elsewhere on this forum.

When thinking about getting a new car, I weighed the costs of numerous VW repairs against big problems on a Benz. Then I attended a BMW driving school which compared a 3 series against C-class and Audi A4. The snotty BMW driving instructors assured me there was no way I could prefer a Benz after driving their auto X. Well 15 minutes later I found myself with a whole lot of car sickness and desire for a large bucket. I discovered that I really missed the Mercedes driving dynamics a lot. Now here I am with a 2006 Mercedes which I'm loving more and more each day. Its not TDI mileage but decent at 33 mpg overall. We will see how long the romance lasts :)
 

BRUSSELS BELGIAN

Old Whig
Joined
May 26, 1999
Location
Aston,Pa. USA
TDI
1997 Passat TDI
That's Why I HATE German Cars!

See, these cars keep breaking until everything is right (but you do not know it) and then, when you give up on 'em, they don't break anymore!:eek:
 

ecarnell

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Location
South Western Ontario
TDI
TDI GLS, 2004, Mettalic Blue
A little late to this party but I feel inspired since I sold my wife's Toyota Highlander today. Since I've kept some decent records on maintenance costs and what not, I thought I would post some figures from my ownership experience of VW, Mercedes and Toyota:

2001 Passat 1.8T
Bought: New
Owned: 5.1 years
Miles put on: 102,386
Miles when sold: 102,386
Repairs & Maintenance: $3,261

1996 Passat TDI B4V
Bought: Used
Owned: 2.7 years
Miles put on: 18,970
Miles when sold: 185,209
Repairs & Maintenance: $9,250

1998 Mercedes E300D
Bought: Used
Owned: 3 years
Miles put on: 46,214
Miles when sold: 217,214
Repairs & Maintenance: $15,010

2000 Golf GL TDI
Bought: Used
Owned: 5.8 years
Miles put on: 94,304
Miles when sold: 172,054
Repairs & Maintenance: $20,472

2002 Toyota Highlander (Wife's)
Bought: Used
Owned: 7 years
Miles put on: 106,301
Miles when sold: 121,287
Repairs & Maintenance: $9,706

Hmm, that's sobering. Lug_nut always told me not to look at those numbers. But here they are, all together in one post. Yuck.
:)
Man - have you ever thought of leasing? Those repair bills look out to lunch - do you do any mtc yourself? Are you factoring in depreciation in there or fuel costs?
Are you including high priced tires and rims in there?
Maybe it's just me....
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
The re-sale value really has to be considered.
Also,
A new car driven for 5 years with zero maintenance will be dirt cheap when only repair and maintenance are considered.
The bloke buying that neglected car will have a boat payment's worth or expenses before the first mile it turned, and instantly that low maintenance car is a money pit.

So, depressing as those numbers may appear, they don't really say all that much.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
This is startling to me:

1998 Mercedes E300D
Bought: Used
Owned: 3 years
Miles put on: 46,214
Miles when sold: 217,214
Repairs & Maintenance: $15,010


I suppose there was something "big" in there?
 

SnowCub

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Location
Bedford, MA
TDI
2013 S350 BlueTec
Man - have you ever thought of leasing? Those repair bills look out to lunch - do you do any mtc yourself? Are you factoring in depreciation in there or fuel costs?
Are you including high priced tires and rims in there?
Maybe it's just me....
On the Golf I did almost all the oil changes myself. Brakes and such on the VW's and minor repairs, I did myself. Timing belts done by other mechanics. I don't do the Mercedes repairs. The Mercedes is a whole different animal that I'm not familiar enough with. I did less than a half a year at the dealer with the 1998 MB until the repair prices shocked me enough to find a good mechanic.

Depreciation and fuel costs are not included. Nor are high priced rims, those go in the "upgrades" (and unnecessary things) category which I also did not include.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I drove my M-B to a BMW dealer today and sat in a running 330D. Nice car, surprisingly spacious interior. But when I got back in my 300D I had to think about how much less expensive it would be to fix the few things that are wrong with that 18 year-old car (cruise not working, A/C that has occasional hot flashes, a bit of rust on one fender, scratchy stereo speakers). Not a lot of fun, but I bet I could fix all of it for less than one year's excise tax on the BMW. Besides, 119 HP is more fun than 265.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
The re-sale value really has to be considered.
Also,
A new car driven for 5 years with zero maintenance will be dirt cheap when only repair and maintenance are considered.
The bloke buying that neglected car will have a boat payment's worth or expenses before the first mile it turned, and instantly that low maintenance car is a money pit.

So, depressing as those numbers may appear, they don't really say all that much.
Resale ONLY should be considered if your plan is to sell the car when you're done with it.. every single one of my cars except for a small handful of them I've brought to the scrap yard when I'm done..

Most newer "normal" cars require almost nothing but fluids and filters for over 100k so your statement about someone picking up a "neglected" 5 year old car is kinda invalid for most new cars if someone does the standard 12k/year, unless it never got any oil changes LOL..

But then again I've serviced a few cars and took the OE filter off at 75k when it rusted through and started leaking.. One I remember was a 2005 civic.. 80k.. first oil change.. The guy bought the car new and only opened the hood to put washer fluid in. Got towed in because the oil light came on. The filter was rotted enough to blow a piece off.. Put on a new filter, changed the oil and air filter (sucked itself through) and all has been well since.. He'll probably drive it until it stops when the fuel filter finally clogs up.. He'll keep repeating until he feels it's not worth fixing, then junk it..

You would be really surprised how much you can neglect a car and they still run fine..
 

SnowCub

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Location
Bedford, MA
TDI
2013 S350 BlueTec
This is startling to me:
1998 Mercedes E300D
Bought: Used
Owned: 3 years
Miles put on: 46,214
Miles when sold: 217,214
Repairs & Maintenance: $15,010

I suppose there was something "big" in there?
Well you see, first thing, I'm anal retentive (in more ways than one) so when I buy a used car I like to fix everything up. Hood insulation, cloudy mirrors, etc.

However with the Mercedes E300D there were a series of expensive fixes and re-fixes. As I said, I first went to the dealer where they replaced my leaking fuel lines to the tune of $897. You need to take off the intake manifold to get to them. I almost died when I got the bill. However they missed, perhaps intentionally that the fuel line O-rings were leaking too, so the intake manifold had to be taken off again to fix that... luckily I had found European Auto Solutions by then. Those guys are awesome. Cheaper than the dealer, though not as cheap as the local mechanics. But they stand behind everything they do and they haven't fed me any bullsh*t yet.

Other big ticket items included changing the glow plugs, one got stuck in the head and had to be manipulated out with a dedicated Mercedes tool. $2,330 was the final total.

Entire A/C system was replaced $1,769 (altho that bill seems to include rear brakes and pads).

The motor mounts were replaced twice because the crappy aftermarket ones couldn't deal with the torque being produced by the Rocketchipped engine and failed, so I went back to OEM.

Other things replaced when I owned it included the starter, the alternator, the exhaust system, sway bay end links, transmission connector, glow plug harness and a bunch of little things.

The new owner was ecstatic to find the car in what he thought was awesome condition. I was selling it because I believed that the the problems were getting too overwhelming to keep on top of since the fenders had started to rust.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
SnowCub:

I understand now. Those 98 - 99 MB E300D models are getting hard to find in really good condition. I wish I was the new owner of your old one! ;)
 

TDIinRI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Location
NOT in RI
TDI
2003 GOLF silver
I am happy? to report that VW dealers in Europe are as inept as their American counterparts. Also the inflated dealer rate applies here as well.
 

yatzee

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Location
Montreal, Qc
TDI
see sig
I hate to say it, but my 2002 Golf was starting to cost some major money. Previous cost cutting corners had started to bite me in the ass as I had to replace the hand brake cables, rear calipers, front strut mounts 2 or 3 times due me buying chinesium parts.... Learnt that lesson and put original on after that, but still. With the Golf, I had things break that almost never break like an ABS modulator that died on me (that cost a bunch to replace), and a strange water infiltration issue that took ages to track down (and a bunch of money to repair properly)

The Jetta has been fine so far - much more money has been put into mods at this point than actual repairs :)

I will echo what Peter was saying - I would swap out of my 350SDL, pay off the Jetta and buy something newer and shinier, but the parts costs on the old MB have been super reasonable, and, gosh darn it, the old girl drives really well!
 

BRUSSELS BELGIAN

Old Whig
Joined
May 26, 1999
Location
Aston,Pa. USA
TDI
1997 Passat TDI
My Old Gal

My 99 300D has not been trouble free; however, I do believe the cost of maintaining these cars can be overstated. I have also found that most do it yourself stuff on the Benz is pretty straightfoward. I had the car detailed at the dealer (I know!), and when I picked it up, the valet said to me "sir, of all the new and used cars at this dealer, your car is the one I would take home if I could choose one car here." Pretty neat...:)
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
Tom, sounds like you have shiner envy! Have you forgotten how to polish yourself? Need Jack to remind you how? :eek:

-J
 
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