Vw Jetta TDI vs Honda Civic

[BoiseTDI]

For those who have had both, which do you prefer? which is more economical and reliable to own?

 

[66Stang]

$ for $ it will be very close IMHO. The TDI will have better resale, a better interior, be mopre comfortable, etc.

The Civic may or may not be more reliable. A civic can be had cheaper than a TDI.

But I prefer the TDI driving experience, so I would go TDI, Just my two cents, ymmv.

Chris

 

[ruking]

03 Jetta TDI, 04 Civic. Civic has been ever so slightly cheaper (depreciation & fuel) over LIKE (92,000)miles (.1427 cents per mile driven: D&F) vs .1433 cents per mile driven: D&F for the TDI) or .0006 cents cheaper. (aka a tad less than 1/2 of 1 percent .0006/.1427= .004205% )

If you get a statistically average Jetta, almost hands down, I prefer the Jetta TDI and the quality is head and shoulders above the Honda's. Both at like miles have been UTTERLY reliable. So while the Jetta TDI is cheaper than the Prius, and the Honda Civic bests it out literally by less than a human hair, the power stats comparo really indicate the competition is between Jetta TDI and Camry/Accord and Camry hybrid.

We are very happy with the Honda Civic for the reasons purchased. Here are a number of reasons that you MIGHT be interested in:

1. purposeful commute
2: low purchase price (app -$5,436 cheaper than VW)
3. projected low operating cost (fuel in comparison to most gassers)
4. projected low depreciation (aka, projected high resale value)
5. 01M A/T or VW's automatic transmission POOR durability reputation and IF/when the Honda's automatic transmission gave out, the savings would have paid for the transmission repair.
5b. in addition, the VW Jetta TDI combined with the 01M A/T offered no mpg advantage given the options' much higher option cost, (+ $ 1,100) in the overall scheme of things AND much lower mpg.

The Honda Civic gets between 38-42 mpg for that purposeful commute (R/T 54 miles). Jetta TDI numbers are 48-52 mpg. Since the depreciation rate is a tad more aggressive than the Honda's, it is ever so slightly more expensive than the Jetta to run, cost per mile driven. (fuel & depreciation)

Fuel cost per mile driven, of course is much higher, percentage wise, RUG being 37% more than D2 ( @ 3.11 RUG/38 mpg= .0818 cents & 2.87 D2/48 mpg= .05979).

So here is where it gets a bit tricky. The wear able items seem to wear more quickly on the Civic. I have needed 3 alignments ($90. ea) to VW's NONE. Tires wore out sooner (74,300 miles vs VW @ 112,300 miles VW's GY LS-H's lasted 51% longer than the Civic's tires). It WILL need brake pads and rotors quicker also. So as you can see, the price difference ($5,436) goes a LONG way in paying for the Honda's faster wearing consumable parts.

This probably is a left field response, but it is far easier to get FAR better mpg in a Jetta TDI vs a Honda Civic, once you know how to drive either and/or both. So for example, our best mpg on the Civic was 45 mpg, range being between 36 mpg-45 mpg. The best on the Jetta TDI has been 62 mpg, range being between 44 mpg-62 mpg.

 

[BoiseTDI]

Thanks for the response Chris.

The reason I started exploring the Civic is it seems that the Tdi is so particular. IE: Never buy an auto. Dont buy this year for this reason, don't buy that year for that reason. I am mainly speaking of used TDIs.

Whereas with a Civic, you can buy any year, auto or 5 spd and they are going to work for you, no hidden things to look for. Not to mention, most who are selling their TDI want a crazy amt for them. This is just what Im finding as I poke Around waiting to buy something.

Isn't Honda supposed to bring their diesel to the USA this year?

 

[BoiseTDI]

Thanks also Ruking. I posted just after you. Great comparison.

 

[loaba]

I love my Jetta TDI, but I also loved "Crunchy" too (my beater 95 Honda Civic EX).

I may get flamed - but here goes - a nicely-used Honda Civic, from the previous generation (before the current batch of bloated pigs being called Civics came to be), would be simple to maintain, easy on gas, and fun to drive.

Simple to maintain means changing the oil, look for leaks now and again and change your timing belt in a timely fashion.

Easy on gas means 26 in the city.

Fun to drive means get the 5-sp and drive it like it was stolen.

Just my opinion, don't kill me.

 

[NB_TDi]

My friend traded in his 05 Civic for a TDI.

Lets seeeee.....

Interior fabric was falling off the doors/roof. Paint was missing off the hood, I'd say easy 10 pairs of rotors in 4 years to stop the shaking in the front end. Oh and the clutch grenaded, that's what forced the TDI buying.

People swear by Hondas but when you get a lemon, holy beans.

 

[PDJetta]

I was looking at used Honda Civics for my son and he bought an '03 (with a 5-speed transmission). During the research I discovered that at least the '03s had real issues with automatic transmission failures (necessitating a total rebuild), many times at under 100,000 miles. This was a surprise to me. I thought Hondas were completely reliable. It's not only VW that has auto gearbox issues!

--Nate

 

[barshnik]

The older base Civics seem like a very practical vehicle. A nephew has one and gets 35-42 mpg, a friend has one and gets 34-42 mpg. One is an auto, one a manual. I get the same mileage with my '09 JSW TDi (overall 36.7 since new.) I'd have to guess that cost/mile with the Civic is going to beat out the TDi over time on average. That said, I wouldn't trade, but you could make a far worse choice than the Civic - I find them kind of fun to drive but slightly less comfortable than the JSW.

John F

 

[loaba]

This was a surprise to me. I thought Hondas were completely reliable. It's not only VW that has auto gearbox issues!

--Nate

A good friend of mine works for Ford (Mechanical Engineer, travels to dealerships to help out when they have mechanical issues that cannot be resolved), and in a recent conversation, he indicated that while Ford had made great strides in reliability and quality control (they kinda had no place to go but up), Honda had actually slipped in those ratings.

I guess it should really come as no surprise; Honda has worked hard to become a brand recognized for excellence and reliability, so they can afford to slip now. The average consumer still believes that Honda makes the most reliable cars on the road. Good thing there are still plenty of old one out there to choose from. If my luck had been a little better, I might still be tooling around in my 95 Civic.


Edit: It's extremely difficult to get past consumer misconceptions - a company like Ford can make great vehicles, yet get no credit for it because of the crap they've become known for. Honda can make crap for the next 4 years and not get any flak for it, because they've become known for making excellent vehicles in the past.

 

[wonderfulremark]

Come on guys, let's be honest and not be bias here...

when it comes to reliability and maintenance cost.. nothing can't beat the civics.....

 

[NB_TDi]

Come on guys, let's be honest and not be bias here...

when it comes to reliability and maintenance cost.. nothing can't beat the civics.....

Now who's being dishonest

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Older Hondas can be just as much a money pit as an older TDI. We have a '98 Odyssey as our third car: beater/kids learn to drive on it. I just took it to the garage today as the distributor is toast. Won't start on damp mornings unless you put the hairdryer to the distributor. Stalled twice on the way to the garage. In the last three years on the Honda I've changed the rad, O2 sensor, entire front suspension, entire exhaust system, rear shocks, ABS sensor, ignition switch (and it wasn't one of those covered in the recall), and now the distributor and I'm no doubt forgetting some.

So it's a wash for us. In 2006 alone I paid out about $6k in repairs on it. Every year costs us a couple of $k. Not including wear-and-tear, and the stuff I refuse to fix (one example, the cruise control doesn't work; the servo cable attachment on the throttle housing rusted out and the cruise cable is no longer attached; when the same thing happens on the throttle cable side, I will change it).

The money is one thing; I expect to pay some $ for an old car but the PITA factor is the main issue. Yes, it's cheaper than buying a new car BUT, I can't count on the car for other than local lumber yard service or for the kids to drive.

 

[German_1er_diesel]

What if you could buy a diesel Civic?

(Not available with any kind of automatic gearbox though)

 

[Powder Hound]

...(Not available with any kind of automatic gearbox though)

That would be called a feature by many of us.

Interesting vehicle. I'm not thrilled by the styling, but styling is always a very subjective item on any car. Some people might spontaneously drool when they see it. Some people bought Scions, so there's no accounting for taste amongst the general public, IMO.

 

[jhota]

My friend traded in his 05 Civic for a TDI.

Lets seeeee.....

Interior fabric was falling off the doors/roof. Paint was missing off the hood, I'd say easy 10 pairs of rotors in 4 years to stop the shaking in the front end. Oh and the clutch grenaded, that's what forced the TDI buying.

People swear by Hondas but when you get a lemon, holy beans.

people swear by Hondas because Honda used to build a fantastic car.

i have a 1990 Civic Wagon DX with over 310k miles on it. when i bought it, things like interior quality, build quality, etc., were better than what i've seen on my 2001 New Beetle.

but i wouldn't touch a Civic built after 2000, and are really not a fan of those built after 1995. really, the 4G Civic is the sweet spot of the model's production history.

the front rotor issue is common on Civics; AFAIK, they all have rotors that ride "on top" of the hub flange and have very thin hats. because the hats are so thin and wheel torque so low (80 lb-ft), if the wheels are overtorqued or unevenly torqued on installation, the rotors themselves will eventually warp. also, because of the way they sit on top of the hub (with no real clamping force other than the wheel studs), they are susceptible to similar warpage if the seating surface isn't scrupulously cleaned before installation.

cleaning of the hub flange prior to install, using high-quality replacement rotors, and not using an air impact to tighten the lugnuts will usually prevent warpage issues with these cars.

anymore, if i'm recommending a small, economical car, i suggest the Toyota Corolla. you'll die of boredom (in all likelihood), but the darned thing won't break.

 

[JSWTDI09]

I drive a 2009 TDI and my wife drives a 2002 Civic. I really can't say a lot about reliability for the VW since I only have about 8500 (trouble free) miles on it. However, the Honda has NEVER had anything other than scheduled maintenance. It always works.

That said; the Jetta has a much more comfortable interior. The seats are better and the amount of (front seat) room is far superior. I am very tall and I have to "shoehorn" myself into the driver's seat of the Civic; my knees are folded up on either side of the steering wheel, and my head rubs the roof. Drivable, but un-acceptable for a long trip. In the Jetta there is plenty of room for my long frame.


Have Fun!

Don

 

[BadMonKey]

My friend traded in his 05 Civic for a TDI.

Lets seeeee.....

Interior fabric was falling off the doors/roof. Paint was missing off the hood, I'd say easy 10 pairs of rotors in 4 years to stop the shaking in the front end. Oh and the clutch grenaded, that's what forced the TDI buying.

People swear by Hondas but when you get a lemon, holy beans.

And a lemon TDI is any different? I haven't been to a mechanic for repairs since I sold my TDI. My TDI was everything but economical.

 

[engineerorange]

Oh my, that thing is fugly. Like almost pontiac aztec fugly.

The ricers would line up to buy them here, all it needs is a turbo sticker and a fart can exhaust tip.

What if you could buy a diesel Civic?

(Not available with any kind of automatic gearbox though)

 

[turbocharged798]

The ricers would line up to buy them here, all it needs is a turbo sticker and a fart can exhaust tip.

Exactly my thoughts as a looked at the pics. 3 huge bling rims, super annoying fart can, and a unpainted falling off body kit would really go with that car!

 

[supton]

Last weekend, I was driving home in the '01 Civic. Went to finish off off a bottle of water, and found that I had to duck, as the bottle was hitting the roof! Considering I'm only 5'7", and never had this issue in any other car... Small car indeed!

Wife's Civic has been so-so. A/C breaks every other year, just had an oil pan changed due to rust. Only thing is, it's an '01; the new Civic's have all changed since then. I think the concensus is that the Fit is about the size of the older Civic, and the one downside that I've read about those is that they are quite buzzy (turning close to 4,000rpm at 80mph, in the 5spd stick version).

I think the issue with Honda's is rust. They are good for a few years, but then they start disintegrating. OTOH, the dealers are not automatically incompetent. I'm starting to think that if I had a short commute, the Honda might be more fun; but VW's probably make for much better highway haulers.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

We have a '98 Odyssey van. Just changed the distributor cap and rotor on it yesterday. The garage said "hang on to it as long as you can, those original Odysseys were great, simple, reliable". Well, we'll hang on to it alright but it is already leaving us, one rusty morsel at a time. I slammed the tailgate shut and a big chunk of rusty metal fell out.

On the other hand I know someone with a '98 B5 Passat. Not a speck of rust on it, looks as good as my wife's '05 (i.e. fewer parking lot scratches).

 

[German_1er_diesel]

nteresting vehicle. I'm not thrilled by the styling, but styling is always a very subjective item on any car.

It's a very interesting thing, this Civic hatch. The back seat flips up like in the Fit, so you can haul tall items like a bicycle standing up.

The trunk is nearly the size of a Jetta's, plus you get hatchback practicality and an insanely wide hatch opening.

 

[BadMonKey]

We have a '98 Odyssey van. Just changed the distributor cap and rotor on it yesterday. The garage said "hang on to it as long as you can, those original Odysseys were great, simple, reliable". Well, we'll hang on to it alright but it is already leaving us, one rusty morsel at a time. I slammed the tailgate shut and a big chunk of rusty metal fell out.

On the other hand I know someone with a '98 B5 Passat. Not a speck of rust on it, looks as good as my wife's '05 (i.e. fewer parking lot scratches).

Didn't you post earlier that it was your beater for the kids to learn on. Kind of like comparing grandmas Buick in the garage to one parked on a farm.

 

[jhota]

I think the issue with Honda's is rust. They are good for a few years, but then they start disintegrating. OTOH, the dealers are not automatically incompetent. I'm starting to think that if I had a short commute, the Honda might be more fun; but VW's probably make for much better highway haulers.

Hondas are infamous for their rust - they've gotten better, but it's not like "better" took a whole hell of a lot.

i'm often amazed that my '90 Civic is rust free; even here in the sunny south, "Hondarot" is a common sight.

that said, they rarely rust in such a way as to cause safety/structural issues. in other words, the door panels may be semi-transparent and the fenders flapping in the breeze, but the suspension hard points will still be A-OK.

 

[MyWifesTDI]

I have '94 Accord VTEC 4-sp Auto that has been very,very reliable, and has the Hondarot since my sister bought it in 1997. It really has not gotten any worse, just a spot behing the rear wheel wells on each side. I paid $1,500 for it June of '05 and driven it ~97K miles, it has 239K miles on it now and gets 23-31 MPG. I have spent around $4K on it for annual 1-lb. of 134A, new radiator, speedo cluster, exhaust manifold, main relay, front/rear brakes, windshield, 1-window regulator, 2-sets of tires, steady diet of Honda Power Steering fluid, including all oil, wiper blades and stereo. This does not sound like a Jetta?

Anyway, I am replacing this as a commuter car with an '02 Jetta Wagon GLS 5-speed, and giving Honda up for my 16 year to use. Time will tell how the JSW pans out, but it certainly is more "automobile" than the Accord. Oh, and my wifes gets her '04 Jetta 5M A4 GL back from me. Civics are great, but very utility minded and not all that comfortable riding.

 

[robnitro]

I don't know how y'all are getting 35+ in an auto civic. My 1995 civic auto with 1.5 L engine got 35 at MOST, and I was doing the speed limit. Timing belt +water pump replaced, valves adjusted, spark plugs and wires. It passed emissions with flying colors, so I don't think the engine was running inefficiently!

That Honda also got low 20s mpg in NYC stop and go driving (rating 29 city). My TDI gets 30, and I sometimes drive hard, with a chip, injectors, turbo... woo hoo! Highway the TDI gets 45 mpg easy.. more if I drove the speed limit

 

[Steve to Be]

1988 Civic CRX HF

Paid $2000 for it 3 yr ago, the most fun, nimble little car I have ever owned in 40 years. I beat the hell out of it and it always gets better than 40 mpg. I replaced the engine and clutch for total $800 because of my fault of running it too long with out enough coolant. I would recommend for a Honda, the 1988 to 1992 CRX HF 2 passenger or 1993 to 1995 Civic VX 5 passenger cars, both get plus 40 mpg and last forever with minimum maintenance and are extremely fun to drive with Honda reliability. Can be had from $2000 to $4000. I'm still working on my 2003 Jetta Auto Wagon, I'm going to be putting in a used from Germany 24,000 mile ASV 110 hp motor in it soon and have a Rocket tuned ECU in it. Total cost for car and engine when done $8000. Hope to add some info on this in the future.

.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Didn't you post earlier that it was your beater for the kids to learn on. Kind of like comparing grandmas Buick in the garage to one parked on a farm.

Yep, that and it's also the lumber yard car. It'll keep on trucking until it is no longer safe (i.e. the rust becomes structural). But it WAS my wife's daily driver until 2004. By 2004 serious rust had already set in especially around the tailgate and inside the door bottoms. That's only 6 years (we bought it in Sept. '98 and got the TDI in Oct. 2005). No surprise then, that the Honda rust warranty is only 5 years.

I've noticed though that Kias and Hyundais appear to be the rust kings around here.

 

[ruking]

Yep, that and it's also the lumber yard car. It'll keep on trucking until it is no longer safe (i.e. the rust becomes structural). But it WAS my wife's daily driver until 2004. By 2005 serious rust had already set in especially around the tailgate and inside the door bottoms. That's only 6 years (we bought it in Sept. '98 and got the TDI in Oct. 2005). No surprise then, that the Honda rust warranty is only 5 years.

I've noticed though that Kias and Hyundais appear to be the rust kings around here.

Where rust is an issue, it is a false economy and can lead to safety issues, buying a car that develops structural integrity rust issues in "short order. "