VW introduces Passat TDI (Press Release)

STNK BG 1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Location
Great Corn Desert
TDI
NB,2001,yellow
If automatics perform so poorly, why did formula 1 put in a rule banning fully auto transmissions this year? Does anyone remember the Chaparral?

Just a 2-speed auto, but man, could it run!
 

S4NoMore

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Location
Long Beach, CA
[ QUOTE ]
If automatics perform so poorly, why did formula 1 put in a rule banning fully auto transmissions this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are being sarchastic. F1 "auto" transmissions are just manual gearboxes with automated gear selection mechanisms. They have no torque converter and are not planetary gearsets like normal street-going automatics.

And, I dare say my Tiptronic will spank just about any manual diesel around.

.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
just the guys that want reasonable cost, MPG, power, passing, longevity. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Exactly.

Im sick of the debate too, as it can be summed up like this:

Manual: lots of benefits - for smart folks.
Auto: virtually no benefits, unless you are lazy or otherwise just dont know how to drive.

Oh sure, its nice to have the convenience of an auto, but 95% of the time I dont even pay attention to my need to shift, and I would never find the small added convenience worth the costs (some of which are listed in the quote).
 

S4NoMore

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Location
Long Beach, CA
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly.

Im sick of the debate too, as it can be summed up like this:

Manual: lots of benefits - for smart folks.
Auto: virtually no benefits, unless you are lazy or otherwise just dont know how to drive.

Oh sure, its nice to have the convenience of an auto, but 95% of the time I dont even pay attention to my need to shift, and I would never find the small added convenience worth the costs (some of which are listed in the quote).

[/ QUOTE ]

Manual transmissions will be virtually unobtainable on most cars in 10 years (probably less judging from recent experience like this Passat). The benefits of transmissions like the DSG and CVT are too great to ignore. I agree the Tiptronic style box leaves a lot to be desired, but the future seems pretty clear:

Manual transmissions - old tech
"Automated" transmissions - new tech

Car makes always go for tech, it allows them to jack up the price.
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
If you're not into shifting for yourself, you're likely to get sick of the people who beef about not being able to get a standard transmission. Fair enough. Flip the coin. Say you reeeeally wanted a TDI Passat, but they only came with a stick. And then don't beef about it!

Some car makers have a reputation for making manuals available (BMW, Honda/Acura, Volkswagen/Audi). These companies also have a reputation for making "Drivers Cars" (You may not be into the Civic, but a lot of people are - for performance reasons). Anyway, a "Drivers Car" tends to set certain expectations, like being able to get a stick so something tells me that this group isn't diggin' the commuter car transmission choice. But these companies have to pay to federalize each transmission they offer. That's why we don't have the 10 different engine/transmission combos on the C-Class/3-Series/A4, to name a notable few. There are good business reasons for federalizing the Passat as an automatic only. Mid-size = (by and large) harried, over-scheduled families with way too many distractions in their lives than to shift those bleepin' gears for years, day in and day out in hellish (sub)urban sprawl. These cars are most likely going to go into driveways of families with killer weekly migration patterns. And it will meet their needs. They just won't be as fun or involving as the manual models. Life goes on.

Thank you VW for taking the next step in educating this market a about next gen diesels. By the end of the decade we're bound to see a LOT more competition in this segment and you will have helped generate the demand. I'm personally holding out for a tasty BWM 4 series (the next 3-series coupe) with a 6 sp. straight line 6 cyl 3.3 liter under da hood. Screamin' torque and adrenaline, batman!

/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

S4NoMore

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Location
Long Beach, CA
How does VW get away with claiming this is the most fuel efficient mid-size car available? A check of the EPA's fuel economy listing shows both the Prius and the Passat as mid-size, but of course the hybrid is rated much higher in fuel economy.
 

UTAH

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Location
Salt Lake City/Las Vegas
TDI
2012 A3 TDI/DSG
[ QUOTE ]
How does VW get away with claiming this is the most fuel efficient mid-size car available? A check of the EPA's fuel economy listing shows both the Prius and the Passat as mid-size...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet Kelley BB lists the Prius as "EPA class - compact."

Added on edit: Just checked EPA's website and, yep, both cars are listed as "mid-size." Interesting, eh?

Bill /images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

jrivers804

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 1999
Location
Cape Charles, VA USA
TDI
Jetta, 1998, White
Well, most of the "real world" stuff that I have read, says the Prius, and other hybrids don't get anything close to the mpg they are rated for. I mean people talk about having to drive like a "grandmother" (no offense to grandmothers) to get 50+ mpg with a TDI, but those 50 and 60 mpg numbers on the hybrids are rarely seen when real drivers drive them on real roads.
 

The Duke

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2001
Location
Dearborn
[ QUOTE ]
just the guys that want reasonable cost, MPG, power, passing, longevity. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

True. HOWEVER if you have to do a lot of stop and go driving, wether that is in the city or on the highway during rush hour, the slushbox is nice. On top of that if you played a lot of sports and your knees aren't what they once were, the repetitive action of not having to use the clutch is welcome.

I believe it was Paul Ferre'(sp?) the columnest for R&T who said the he ALWAYS bought an automatic, even when he had Porsche's. That was on the recomendation of Jimmy Clark. It's in an old issue of R&T I have around here somewhere.
 

kyote321

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
TDI
golf td1, 2002, black
which brings me back to my original point: trip is a good compromise between manual and auto. you can drag out the rpms when building speed and downshift into corners. you don't need to work a clutch and eventually have it repaired/replaced. it would be nice if they worked out a system like the prius where no energy is lost.

so, does the new passat not have 4motion? why don't they jack it up like the volvo x-country, they'd sell tons of them: a family suv that gets 40 mpg and burns soybeans. tell OPEC to shove it in style.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly.

Im sick of the debate too, as it can be summed up like this:

Manual: lots of benefits - for smart folks.
Auto: virtually no benefits, unless you are lazy or otherwise just dont know how to drive.

Oh sure, its nice to have the convenience of an auto, but 95% of the time I dont even pay attention to my need to shift, and I would never find the small added convenience worth the costs (some of which are listed in the quote).

[/ QUOTE ]

Manual transmissions will be virtually unobtainable on most cars in 10 years (probably less judging from recent experience like this Passat). The benefits of transmissions like the DSG and CVT are too great to ignore. I agree the Tiptronic style box leaves a lot to be desired, but the future seems pretty clear:

Manual transmissions - old tech
"Automated" transmissions - new tech

Car makes always go for tech, it allows them to jack up the price.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont agree at all.

It's not about "old and new," its about what works, not to mention the joy of driving a manual, which will never go out of style. And manual trannies work very well. I agree they are becoming an endangered species, but they will always be an option, and will not likely ever be impossible to get. On some cars perhaps, but not on most.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]


Thank you VW for taking the next step in educating this market a about next gen diesels. By the end of the decade we're bound to see a LOT more competition in this segment and you will have helped generate the demand. I'm personally holding out for a tasty BWM 4 series (the next 3-series coupe) with a 6 sp. straight line 6 cyl 3.3 liter under da hood. Screamin' torque and adrenaline, batman!

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I would hardly commend VW for their attempts at public diesel-edification. They have unfortunately done a pretty piss poor job of it so far, but more power to them.

As for a new BMW 3 series with a diesel - why get a 3.3L? Give me that new 272hp, 414lbft 3.0L I6 2-stage turbodiesel. That would put the 3 into M3 performance territory.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
How does VW get away with claiming this is the most fuel efficient mid-size car available? A check of the EPA's fuel economy listing shows both the Prius and the Passat as mid-size, but of course the hybrid is rated much higher in fuel economy.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
The older Prius was compact, the new one's bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would take a Passat over a Prius for my family any day. /images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just the guys that want reasonable cost, MPG, power, passing, longevity. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

True. HOWEVER if you have to do a lot of stop and go driving, wether that is in the city or on the highway during rush hour, the slushbox is nice. On top of that if you played a lot of sports and your knees aren't what they once were, the repetitive action of not having to use the clutch is welcome.

I believe it was Paul Ferre'(sp?) the columnest for R&T who said the he ALWAYS bought an automatic, even when he had Porsche's. That was on the recomendation of Jimmy Clark. It's in an old issue of R&T I have around here somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely a good point.

However, do you drive a TDI??

In highway stop and go, aside from true stopping, I can usually switch between 4th and 3rd for just about any speed in highway rush hour. Then go to 5th for cruising when traffic eases up. In city driving, 2nd and 3rd are all I need.

Quite often, I can keep it in 4th from 25mph to 80mph no problem, or 3rd from 15 to 60 no problem. With a more powerful, torquier diesel (latest diesels), I imagine 3rd or 4th gear alone would give virtually all the speeds needed in typical heavy traffic. Again, as long as you dont come to a complete stop.
 

TheLongshot

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Location
Burke, VA
TDI
Jetta Wagon '03 Reflex Silver
[ QUOTE ]
not to mention the joy of driving a manual

[/ QUOTE ]

IF you think driving a manual a joy. I know quite a few people (including my wife) that don't think driving manuals are fun at all.

Personally, I have plenty of fun driving my auto TDI...

Jason
 

Tin Man

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2001
Location
Coastal Empire
TDI
Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
[ QUOTE ]
...... you don't need to work a clutch and eventually have it repaired/replaced......

[/ QUOTE ]

My biggest beef with automatic "slush-box" type transmissions is that in my experience they rarely last past 120,000 miles or so without an expensive (try $1500 and up) rebuild, while a clutch/manual can go for much longer and costs less to service and rebuild. There are some excellent automatics on the market for longevity but unfortunately not on VW's. The tiptronic, however, has been mentioned as the best automatic that VW has so far.
 

jrivers804

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 1999
Location
Cape Charles, VA USA
TDI
Jetta, 1998, White
I haven't seen anyone say that their is a problem with VW or any company offering an automatic, for those who want one. What I get angry about is that a corporation would take that choice away. You want an automatic great, do you begrudege that I want a manual, that is taking nothing from you. When you get into longevity and fuel economy, both of these can be greater with a manual, but no offense, you have to know how and when to shift. For those unfamiliar a manual can need a new clutch or get lousy mileage very easily. But I don't mind how many automatic transmissions VW sells, so long as they continue to offer a manual, and a "tiptronic" is NOT a manual. Again I have nothing aginst those who enjoy using the tip function, I just want three pedals and a real manual transmission.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
passat 1993 red
/images/graemlins/eek.gif Looks like its' not about fuel economy anymore, because my 11 year old passat diesel beats the new one in a heartbeat /images/graemlins/frown.gif, shouldn't they be moving ahead instead of backwards?
 

VW_Jedi

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Orillia, Ontario
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS, Silver with Black Leather
What a bunch of whiners.

VW announces a new diesel model...at last and all anybody wants to talk about is what it doesn't have.

This forum becomes more cynical, negative and jaded every day.

The Passat does NOT come in a manual. Therefore, if you MUST have a manual this is not the car for you. We don't need forty posts telling us that. Look through this new thread about the Passat. I wanted to read about the car and people's experiences so far. Instead, 80% of this thread is about the lack of a manual. Start a thread called "No Manual on the Passat TDI", and go vent there.

The Passat also doesn't have an option of a built in tent in the trunk. I like to camp, this is an outrage! Lets talk about the lack of a tent for 3 days.

Ironically, I think I just added to the negativity of this site.

Coop
 

rattletrap

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Location
Georgetown, KY
You've made a VERY good point and I'd like to throw in my two cent's worth. As some of you know I had an '01 Jetta TDI 5-speed until around April 1. When I bought it I was looking for an automatic but the dealer had none on the lot. I was desperate to get out of the '95 BMW 740IL money pit I was driving so I bought the stick. I loved driving this TDI stick but my wife, who has no problem with a stick, avoided driving it because she PREFERS an automatic. Plus, I own a business that causes me to use my cell phone a lot while on the road. With the stick things could get a little hairy at times. My new automatic Passat TDI is due in on April 16 and with all due respect, I'm not putting the type of transmission at the top of my list like a lot of you guys. And, just because I occasionally need to use a cell phone while driving doesn't mean I can't appreciate the overall driving experience of a fine car. VW's build quality and diesel engine technology is only matched by the comfort and handling. Automatic or stick, I'm OK with it. As far as MPG, hey! When you look at what the rag heads and oil companies are doing to the SUV drivers why would ANY of us complain when we TDI drivers are getting 35 plus MPG? WE ARE AHEAD OF THE CURVE!!
 

TheLongshot

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Location
Burke, VA
TDI
Jetta Wagon '03 Reflex Silver
[ QUOTE ]
What I get angry about is that a corporation would take that choice away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the question is, why?

It seems pretty clear to me: the Passat is a very limited run this year, so there are no custom orders, and the options will be very limited for that reason. Certanly having one transmission makes the assembly line simpler and makes it cheaper to produce.

While I understand those who want manuals, could you please do it without the insults to those of us who drive autos? Really, guys, you don't make yourselves sympathetic when you rag on my choice of transmission in my car.

The best way to make your position known is to write VWoA of your desire. Speaking here doesn't do all that much to change the situation.

Jason
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
passat 1993 red
hmmmmm when i use a cell phone, i use a headset, much easier when driving a stick, otherwise don't use a cell fone while driving, as u probably cut people off without even knowing they were they, like most cell phone yakin wankers.
 

KAROL

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Location
Odessa,TX
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
STOP WHINING ! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! ***** TO THOSE AT FAULT HERE-VW!
Be fair to other fellow TDI entusiasts stick or not.
I challange anyone who says that I can't do just about
anything with Tip as well as with the stick on Passat
including fuel economy.I owned both 1.8T with Tip and
5-speed .They can both get 35MPG regularly .
Do not forget that by 120K 5-speed will need at least one
clutch job,and probably some bearings and synchronizers
even if one of each they are very expensive in german cars
plus labor.

ASE Master
AAMCO TRANS.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not to mention the joy of driving a manual

[/ QUOTE ]

IF you think driving a manual a joy. I know quite a few people (including my wife) that don't think driving manuals are fun at all.

Personally, I have plenty of fun driving my auto TDI...

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's fun, and then there is joy. Joy. Satisfaction. Control. That is what I get out of a manual that I would never give up for an auto.

Its just strange, I know, but I think the vast majority of auto drivers are just used to autos, dont see the point of a manual, and will never change their minds. I think they are spoiled/lazy. Not just because they dont like changing gears, but because they are too lazy to learn to appreciate the benefits and joys of a manual. Thats just my opinion, of course. No offense to auto drivers (very sensitive bunch, /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif).
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...... you don't need to work a clutch and eventually have it repaired/replaced......

[/ QUOTE ]

My biggest beef with automatic "slush-box" type transmissions is that in my experience they rarely last past 120,000 miles or so without an expensive (try $1500 and up) rebuild, while a clutch/manual can go for much longer and costs less to service and rebuild. There are some excellent automatics on the market for longevity but unfortunately not on VW's. The tiptronic, however, has been mentioned as the best automatic that VW has so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Complaining about clutch wear is absurd. If driven well, a modern original clutch can and will last to 200kmi.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]
What a bunch of whiners.

VW announces a new diesel model...at last and all anybody wants to talk about is what it doesn't have.

This forum becomes more cynical, negative and jaded every day.

The Passat does NOT come in a manual. Therefore, if you MUST have a manual this is not the car for you. We don't need forty posts telling us that. Look through this new thread about the Passat. I wanted to read about the car and people's experiences so far. Instead, 80% of this thread is about the lack of a manual. Start a thread called "No Manual on the Passat TDI", and go vent there.

The Passat also doesn't have an option of a built in tent in the trunk. I like to camp, this is an outrage! Lets talk about the lack of a tent for 3 days.

Ironically, I think I just added to the negativity of this site.

Coop

[/ QUOTE ]


Mhmm. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I think its perfectly appropriate to make these complaints here. Those who want a TDI Passat the most are the ones getting screwed the worst - no manual option. That's a big deal, and it will have a big influence on TDI Passat sales.

BMW vehicles have much higher manual:auto tranny ratio than many other makes, because BMW drivers like manual trannies. Why has VW screwed the TDI community, the likely majority of which prefers a manual??

Besides, a manual will come, and making our feelings felt might get it here sooner.
 

RogueTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Location
San Diego
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI Black
[ QUOTE ]


The best way to make your position known is to write VWoA of your desire. Speaking here doesn't do all that much to change the situation.

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I wouldnt be so sure.

Im sure much of the reaction to diesel/TDI news at this site may have some signficant bearing on VW decision making. This is the premier TDI website in North America. I dont doubt VW is listening somehow.

Writing to VW of America is the LAST thing I would do if I actually wanted something done. /images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
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