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VW info on diesel, emissions.

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/publications/2015/04/VV2.bin.html/binarystorageitem/file/VIAVISION_e.pdf

Looks like VW removed this from the corporate web site.

linked from the corporate web site, this article includes discussion on future of diesel, and emissions control.

includes description of combined DPF/SCR, which looks to me like a closer match for North American emissions provided with the new EA288 engine than that included in the self study guides shared here previously.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=117419&title=ea288-dpf-with-scr&cat=500

All images in this issue are approved for​
reprint, citing
VIAVISION as their source.
 
Last edited:

blubugger

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Location
Albuquerque
TDI
2006 New Beetle 5M
Misery loves company

Just curious....i do have the excellent 2014 JSW tdi..not a problem to report in the 20000 miles we have enjoyed it..well engineered, in my opinion....my guilt: some folks have said that statistically speaking, some people have died due to VW's emmision cheating...i submit that if that be the case...every auto in existance, especially any diesel vehicle has caused 'someone' to succumb to some arbitrary emmisions level.

Not to get too politically correct...if we as a human race did away with all vehicles...no one would then die from nox emmisions. Further, it is my opinion that if veedub has engineers that are adept enough to have their cars 'sense' that they are being tested....with no human input...they must have produced overall.....a very well-engineered cars..... EPA mandates again...aside.

So, having this problem put away, and i must say that i never get married to any vehicle. I am wondering if anyone, at this early stage of the game, has turned their TDI VW in for a different model or has had any luck persuing non-VW replacements?
 

LarBear

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Location
Billings, MT
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI DSG
Re: blubuggers post it can also be statistically shown that everyone who'd ever eaten a carrot died. I find the people, MD's and others, who yank statistics out of the air and say such and such a thing if we could only eliminate it would save such and such number of lives, especially children's lives. Maybe if we all went back to shanks mare (walking for the youngsters) we'd all be healthier and there wouldn't be any evil emissions to kill anyone. Any takers?

I keep getting emails from the local VW dealer about their wonderful gassers. I'd be willing to bet that my TDI will out pull a 1.4 turbo up a good mountain, and likely be able to either stay ahead of one or close enough to not matter at 0-60 or 0-80 flat pull too. The 1.8 turbo would be a different story, but not close in fuel mileage.

I did read that a federal judge told VW that they'd best have a solution to the emissions "problem" by 21 April or get 'em off the road. I wonder how he plans to do that without some strong-arm tactics.
 

punkie

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2006
Location
South Mississauga
TDI
2001 Jetta
"I did read that a federal judge told VW that they'd best have a solution to the emissions "problem" by 21 April or get 'em off the road."

This scandal is such a load of phooey. It keeps escalating and sounds like an anti-VDub conspiracy. Maybe we should close down the EPA for their environmental track record? Colorado, anyone?
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
"I did read that a federal judge told VW that they'd best have a solution to the emissions "problem" by 21 April or get 'em off the road."

This scandal is such a load of phooey. It keeps escalating and sounds like an anti-VDub conspiracy. Maybe we should close down the EPA for their environmental track record? Colorado, anyone?
The US's general attitude to sueing everyone is not helping either. The amount of posts I've read on here about people wanting to sue VW over the "devaluing of the cars" or some other trife.
 

Sctdi123

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Location
Lexington sc
TDI
Mk6 golf
I didnt read this article ... but why not build them so that they are serviceable ... ie: un bolt said DPF , EGR ... have a machine (at service centers) to clean and repalce ... over the road equipment does this. The cost to replace/buy new all this is way to high for general public.


my 2 cents...B.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
you have a good point. the sister figure from this article (published way before the brown stuff hit the fan) showed a similar version that did not need to use DEF. that one looked like it had a separable DPF. (with clamps)

the real reason is that cars are not really built to run millions of miles.
 

punkie

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2006
Location
South Mississauga
TDI
2001 Jetta
The US's general attitude to sueing everyone is not helping either. The amount of posts I've read on here about people wanting to sue VW over the "devaluing of the cars" or some other trife.
YES. Very sue-happy!

By far, the best response I've seen is from non-VW owners:

"Your car has been polluting the air my children and I breathe! You selfish TDI scumbags and your dirty diesels!"

*eyeroll*
 

czeetah

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Location
Mountains, NC
TDI
2014 Passat 6MT / Opera Red
The US's general attitude to sueing everyone is not helping either. The amount of posts I've read on here about people wanting to sue VW over the "devaluing of the cars" or some other trife.
Well I have no desire to sue.

But let's face it. They created a product they knew was defective in a major way, lied about it, sold under false pretenses, etc etc

I can't blame people for wanting their hunk of flesh.

VW ain't saints here.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
I'm not saying they are good or bad. I'm just saying that

1) VW aren't alone in what they have done (in EU / UK many tests have shown other brands to produce too much emissions)
It's just that for some reason America has a huge dislike of products which are not "American" and specifically in the state of California hates diesel cars (cars in general lol)
2) The value of the cars IMO aren't effected. You as a consumer, your car is just as as fast (dyno tests show as more powerful infact) and your economy is still very good. The reasons you have bought the car are still valid.
3) How many hugely smokey pickup trucks with those Cummins diesels are people driving around without getting any of the hate....?


As mentioned above the general attitude is not of knowledgeable, informed opinions, but a media driven hatred towards VW TDI's, purely as a result of the media making this a huge issue, by people, who frankly know nothing about cars!

No-one seems to have the same attitude for older models over the years... it's just a bandwagon that people can jump on, which makes them feel better about themselves. Lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Well, if you are looking at a current Cummins, unless Goober-Bob raped the emissions system on it, it will tailpipe test just as clean as a TDI . . . and Cummins *IS* just about the best diesel you can get in a pickup . . . and owning one, I can verify this . . .

- Tim
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Well, if you are looking at a current Cummins, unless Goober-Bob raped the emissions system on it, it will tailpipe test just as clean as a TDI . . . and Cummins *IS* just about the best diesel you can get in a pickup . . . and owning one, I can verify this . . .

- Tim
It's too bad the rest of the truck isn't as good as the engine.
 

newyorktdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Location
NYC
TDI
Golf
I'm not saying they are good or bad. I'm just saying that

1) VW aren't alone in what they have done (in EU / UK many tests have shown other brands to produce too much emissions)
It's just that for some reason America has a huge dislike of products which are not "American" and specifically in the state of California hates diesel cars (cars in general lol)
2) The value of the cars IMO aren't effected. You as a consumer, your car is just as as fast (dyno tests show as more powerful infact) and your economy is still very good. The reasons you have bought the car are still valid.
3) How many hugely smokey pickup trucks with those Cummins diesels are people driving around without getting any of the hate....?


As mentioned above the general attitude is not of knowledgeable, informed opinions, but a media driven hatred towards VW TDI's, purely as a result of the media making this a huge issue, by people, who frankly know nothing about cars!

No-one seems to have the same attitude for older models over the years... it's just a bandwagon that people can jump on, which makes them feel better about themselves. Lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device

1) It's absolutely irrelevant what other manufacturers are doing. VW defrauded governmental agencies as well as consumers alike. No manufacturer has gone to the lengths to do what VW did on this large of a scale. 482,000 cars, an additional ~100,000 SUV's here in the U.S. and about 10.5 million cars in Europe.

2) The value of the cars are affected. If my car gets totaled, the payout I will receive from my insurance company will be less than that of what I would receive if all things were equal and this scandal did not occur. So through absolutely no fault of my own, but instead, of the fraud of VW, I am financially affected if my car is totaled or I decide to sell it. And who wants to even buy my car knowing the future of the car is up in the air until possibly 2 days from now? If someone takes a bat to your windshield and keys your car, through no fault of your own, your vehicle is devalued. It's a very similar concept.

Normally I wouldn't care about something like this as I tend to take care of my cars and drive them until the wheels fall off but my MK4 PD was totaled when I parked in on a street in Manhattan. Insurance opened up the blue book and paid the value at the time. So I'm always conscious that these things happen.

3) Absolutely irrelevant. What one does with their own car and whatever laws they choose to break does not affect what the manufacturer, through careful and planned fraud, has done. You mention Cummins diesels, how many TDI Club members are operating their vehicle on public roads (scandal affected cars or not) with emissions equipment purposefully removed in violation of Federal laws?

You don't have to be a mechanical engineer or a 'car guy' to clearly see the level of fraud VW engaged. This was a concerted effort by VW to save an average of $324 on the retail price of a TDI. They used code words to describe their on-going fraud internally and reaped the benefits of being able to sell a car for a lower price than if they actually complied with regulations.

The Federal government handed out tax credits to buyers of new TDI cars in 2009 amounting to $50,000,000 in tax subsidies because the car was considered a "clean diesel."

I love my TDI and diesels in general but I can separate my love for TDI's and all things diesel to know that what VW is absolutely atrocious. I really do hope they find a 'fix' for my 2010 Golf, but I doubt it considering the value of a 6 year old car vs. fixing it and the problems with a change in performance. Fuel Economy is highly regulated and if the cars start to consume more fuel, the EPA numbers will need to be retroactively adjusted and VW will have to pay the difference. BMW had an issue with some 7-series alternators cooking batteries and it was either disable the system that allowed the alternator to free-wheel to save a few MPGs and retroactively go back and have EPA re-adjust number and pay the difference to warranty the batteries and change them at every (yes, every) 10,000 oil change.


On Friday, hopefully VW will have a concrete plan as Judge Breyer required. At the last appearance, VW claimed to have engineers working around the clock for a fix so we'll see what happens.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Has there been any evidence of people getting paid out less then they should from insurance companies if their TDI was totaled in an accident? This seems like more of an opinion then concrete fact. If you look at the prices of used TDI's, there hasn't been any major collapse at all. So where are all these rock bottom prices coming from?
 

newyorktdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Location
NYC
TDI
Golf
Has there been any evidence of people getting paid out less then they should from insurance companies if their TDI was totaled in an accident? This seems like more of an opinion then concrete fact. If you look at the prices of used TDI's, there hasn't been any major collapse at all. So where are all these rock bottom prices coming from?
There hasn't been any discernible difference as far as I have noticed on the market prices, however the blue book values have been decreased at least 10%. No one is obligated to pay any specific amount for a car used or new, however insurance is contractually obligated to pay the book value. Insurance will look for any excuse to pay less in any kind of claim. I spoke with someone from GEICO who did tell me that the values have decreased and that will be reflected in the case of a car being written off. Had this been a month or so after the scandal broke, it would probably be a nonissue. But it's been several months and we're in 2016.


There may be no rock bottom prices, but the values have dropped over 16%. The actual market doesn't always go with the values. People will pay a pretty penny for an ALH wagon with 50,000 miles, leather and a 5-speed and let's say because it's old, a new Guru installed timing belt service. That price paid for that car will not be the same price paid by insurance if the car was totaled 20 minutes after buying and insuring the car.
 

fredthe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Location
Bowie, MD
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagon SEL DSG
Is anyone else having trouble finding the original article? It seems to be missing from VW's site.
 

piotrsko

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Reno Nv
TDI
2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
your cummins is putting out more crap than my tdi ever dreamed about. The issue is about NOX and you are comparing apples with banana's.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
I dunno, the new F150 is a pretty slick truck (And I'm not a Ford guy at all)
I can't get in or near one without throwing up in my mouth a little bit . . . besides, I have zero interst in a gasser . . . and Ferd has no small diesels, and the big ones grenade . . . so, Cummins for the win,

- Tim
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
your cummins is putting out more crap than my tdi ever dreamed about. The issue is about NOX and you are comparing apples with banana's.
Apparently you haven't looked at a Cummins in about a decade then. Same aftertreatment as a TDI. The *ONLY* reason it may emit more than a TDT is that it is also 3x or better the power output . . .

And again, we aren't talking about the ones bastardized by the inbreeders . . .

- Tim
 

minis2003

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
hampton va
TDI
2006 beetle w/DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI w/DSG
If the issue was NOx then why has no one brought up the levels the DGI (Direct Gasoline Injection) engine product in their exhaust?
most are higher than in our TDIs
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I can't get in or near one without throwing up in my mouth a little bit . . . besides, I have zero interst in a gasser . . . and Ferd has no small diesels, and the big ones grenade . . . so, Cummins for the win,

- Tim
Just don't get into an accident if you're driving a Dodge, you see the latest crash tests? Kinda scary.
 

FordGuy100

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI
The new 3/4-1 ton Dodges look the best out of the big three right now IMO. That said, they better up the ratings on the Cummins, because Ford downright destroys them when towing. HP vs Tq, HP wins every time. (385/900 vs 440/860, Cummins vs Powerstroke respectively)

Talk about a big thread tangent huh?
 

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
Just don't get into an accident if you're driving a Dodge, you see the latest crash tests? Kinda scary.
The crash tests look bad. But given that my '96 kept me alive after being t-boned on the driver side by a drunk going 65, I'll take my chances in the newer 4th generation.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
The new 3/4-1 ton Dodges look the best out of the big three right now IMO. That said, they better up the ratings on the Cummins, because Ford downright destroys them when towing. HP vs Tq, HP wins every time. (385/900 vs 440/860, Cummins vs Powerstroke respectively)

Talk about a big thread tangent huh?
Yeah, but the Ferd can only do that for short periods of time between failures, while the Cummins is a million mile engine. It's not all about power, well, at least for those over about 30 . . . It's like the folks here who bleat incessantly about refusing any fix that costs a few HP . . . I've yet to have a need to floor either my Cummins or TDI (and I have the 2011 Cummins - just about 300HP, not as above), so won't miss what I don't use or need . . .

- Tim
 
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