VW aims to tailor U.S. lineup more to America
- Thread starter Windjammer
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IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
And five years later, no diesel. Guess they weren't that serious about it. Neither was Honda. And I'm betting we won't see a diesel Mazda. Or Audi sedan. I'd love to have all of them here, but I'm not betting on it.
RNDDUDE
Veteran Member
I talked to a guy in a new Phaeton, back when they were selling here, he was a former MB S class owner. He said it was a tough decision to gamble on dumping the S and getting the big VW, because it was so unproven. He had only had the car less than a year, but his impression was that it was the equal of the MB in every way. He agreed that the car's major hurdle would be to convince other luxury car buyers to buy a top shelf VW because, well, it is a VW, with no luxury brand cachet. It turned out he was right, not enough conservative market segment could be convinced to take the leap of faith, and it was pulled from the US market (but not europe). Damn nice car, but I feel the biggest mistake they made with it was plastering it with a gigantic VW emblem. Had they badged it much more subtly, it would have helped.
rotarykid
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Subaru claimed that every automatic they tried to attach to it was shredded in short order. So no automatic they had could survive being attached to the engine meant no way were we ever going to see it....
So no automatic available for fit from Subi that could survive it's torque to dumb the car down for the american market meant they weren't willing to take the chance of offering a manual trans only model in the US.
Shame though, VW did pretty well for years with it's diesel offerings not having a automatic option and I think Subi could have done pretty well as a manual trans only model here. To this day it is still only offered with a manual trans so not likely to show up here anytime soon,.........
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
VW didn't sell many TDIs in '96-99, the years they had them without automatics. I think no automatic would be a deal-killer here. I'm a bit hard-pressed to believe that they couldn't find an automatic that would handle the torque. Does it make more than a 2.5 turbo? More than the 3 liter 6 they sell? I don't buy that as a reason. And the reviews I've read of Subaru's diesel in Europe said it was light on torque for a diesel.
rotarykid
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The limited sales numbers from 96-99 had more to do with limited numbers offered and production problems in 96-97 with the A3body TDI Jettas and Golfs. VW had little trouble selling every B4 Passat sedan & wagon TDI they imported in 96-97.
They sold a very few 96 Jetta TDIs before they stopped sales to fix vibration issues, I have a friend in Denver that got one of the few 96s that was sold.
They also offered a limited number of 97 Jetta TDIs, more in 98 & 99.
If they had continued A3 body sales of the TDI in 96 I bet numbers would have been pretty high even without a automatic option.
And also those numbers can't really be compared to later offerings since they never offered the 98-03 B5 Passat TDI here. I believe if they had sales demand without a automatic option would have far outstripped supply. Then throw in the fact that for the most part 98-99 the NB and A3 jetta, a scant few A3 Golf TDIs were only offered in low numbers that demand easily snapped up.
Post 1999 we had A4 body Jettas, Golfs & NBs TDI manual and automatic in 10 times the supply numbers of previous years offerings. So no real comparison can be made that is relevant to what was offered post 1999.
Did having a automatic option help US sales with non-diesel before buyers?, yes.
Would these models have outstripped demand without a automatic option? most certainly every one they wished to import manual only would have easily been sold.
I don't know about whether Subi is telling the truth on the auto trans problem, but just the fact that this has been their story of why they didn't sell them here.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
VW sales in the US were limited by fleet emissions until '09. They always have managed to sell all they brought here, but given the small numbers available it's not a surprise. IIRC in '02 when I bought my wagon they sold about 8,000 TDIs in the US. Probably an overall loss given certification and parts stocking requirements.
I don't know the ratio of manual to automatic TDIs sold here now, but whenever I walk a VW lot (pretty often) I look for manual versus auto TDIs. I'd say the ratio is about 10:1. Lots of times there are no manuals on the lot at all, or maybe an occasional Golf.
VW certainly could have sold more manual TDIs if they could have brought more in, but I don't know if they would ever have gotten to any kind of significant volume for a number of reasons: old design, lack of features, poor reliability ratings, relatively inexpensive gasoline, high prices.
I don't know the ratio of manual to automatic TDIs sold here now, but whenever I walk a VW lot (pretty often) I look for manual versus auto TDIs. I'd say the ratio is about 10:1. Lots of times there are no manuals on the lot at all, or maybe an occasional Golf.
VW certainly could have sold more manual TDIs if they could have brought more in, but I don't know if they would ever have gotten to any kind of significant volume for a number of reasons: old design, lack of features, poor reliability ratings, relatively inexpensive gasoline, high prices.
This is why Hyundai learned from VW Phaeton mistake when they introduced the Genesis and Equus. Those two do not have any "Stylized H" anywhere on the car. If VW did that with the Phaeton when they brought it over it may have had a chance.
MrVermin
MrVermin
kjclow
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Hasn't subie switched to a cvt for most of their autos in the US? Maybe it's more of an issue with the cvt not being able to handle the torque compared to a regular automatic.
Found my own answer. Subie refers to it as a "direct-control" automatic. According to Wikipedia, this is a cvt.
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DPM
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An uprated Lineartronic CVT (as fitted to the JDM Legacy DI gasser) is apparently in testing behind the diesel currently, for launch first in Australia within the next year or so.
rotarykid
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On BIN requirements, imported units never came close to limits. And on the few wagons offered in 02, that was more limited by production limits than lack of demand. Other model supplies were pushed by trying to increase units for US/Canada sales.
The last numbers I saw from a friend that knows, not just blowing smoke to move what they have on their lot were ~35 % of total US sales. She told me that the majority of manual equipped models are sold before they touch the lot. Also that there are models where manual optioned approach 40 % of sales which is at the edge of what they can feasibly offer to the US market the way it is structured today.
The three models today that have pushed manual trans sales numbers up are the JSW, Golf and Passat TDIs in that order. These are the models that outstrip production availability of the TDI engine and the manual trans.
The way the US/Canada market is supplied parts must be put in the pipeline months before they are needed so a quick uptick in manual trans equipped models isn't really possible today above that 40 % mark. To some extent VW has upped production of manual trans units of these models, but only to the point they feel that they are not taking a risk of having to eat the profits if sales drop off.
Translation is; any yahoo in american can drive a DSG but only the diehards will go for a manual equipped car. But the part they still haven't quite figured out is that the reverse isn't true here. So producing models for the US market is still a gamble when it comes to a manual trans equipped model beyond what they believe people like me will snap up...........
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
That's interesting that they never came close to limits for BIN requirements. Didn't know that. And I'm not surprised at the percentage of diesel sales now.
Too bad about the manual transmissions. They are hard to come by. Probably only going to get more difficult.
Too bad about the manual transmissions. They are hard to come by. Probably only going to get more difficult.
Bugdoc
Veteran Member
VW (and Honda BTW) is decontenting/supersizing at the wrong moment. I drove a rental Chevy Malibu LTZ for a few days, and found it an incredibly well designed, good driving machine. Comparable in every way to my wife's A4. And with about 25k on it as I recall nothing was falling off yet. Even Consumer Report magazine didn't like the Jetta. The great thing I see in a global modular platform is that it can be stretched or shrunk as the market demands. It seems like their second effort at this, the Passat, is fairing better.
pt00323i
Member
Yeah, I see where Americanizing cars has pretty near killed Toyota, Honda, M-B, and BMW.The sales numbers don't lie. When VW was selling German-built "we don't need no stinkin' cupholders" Jettas in the mid-90s, they almost pulled out of the American market. The sales numbers don't lie; VW's sales lately are way up over previous years.
And, frankly, if any company in the VW stable should Americanize, I'd rather it was VW than Audi or Porsche.
It's tough to find a car sold in the U.S. in 2012 that's truly crappy. Not worth the $$, maybe, but incompetent at transporting humans from place to place with unprecedented levels of safety, no.
As you said yourself, people have other priorities. For most folks I know, "Handle accurately and be fun to drive" is pretty far down the list, behind "Fit me and my family and all our stuff", "Be fixable in Frozen Nose, Montana" (Suzuki makes some neat cars now. But I wouldn't drive three hours to the nearest dealer for one), and "Nice audio when I'm stuck on the Interstate during rush hour". In fact, most folks I know hate driving. They'd rather do something else. Hard to market driving satisfaction to that crowd.
Hyundai and Kia combined have not spent on ads what VW has spent over the years -- and look at them. Until Toyota stepped on the rake a couple of years ago, it had an enviable reputation for consistency of product. These companies did not achieve what they have by advertising the hell out of their products. They did it essentially through word of mouth -- tens of thousands of satisfied customers over years and years who drove around their friends troublefree and mistreated their Asian clunker out of ignorance or poverty (or both) only to find it still ran. For whatever reason, VW has never been able to achieve that kind of word-of-mouth success in the U.S. The great question is, why not?
yea, is hard when VW and Audi keep on screwing up, I know few friends that will never buy VW/Audi, one with their 1.8T sludge issue-needed new engine, and other Audi with electrical issues and none starting issues-ignition coil (not too bad)
so Yes I never recommend anyone buying Audi even though we have one and it has been very good to us, still runs like a champ. I always tell them they are great solid cars and drives great but just be ready with repair bills or learn to DIY. I would buy an VW/Audi again.
I've almost bought JSW but read more about the HPFP issues I'm glad I didn't. Now I"m thinking of ordering an '13 passat but I may want to wait for the new EA288 engine, but that might be a bad choice also, since there is no history on that motor.
that is why I"m hang around in this forum, still can't decide and can't hold out much longer, kids are getting too big.
kjclow
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Depending on you and your spouse's heigth and age of your kids, you may want to limit your considerations to just the Passat. My kids have enough legroom in the back of the JSW but they are both fully grown at 5'2". Also my youngest says that the backseat of the JSW tends to make her car sick. Of course that may be more of a ploy on her part so she can drive
dellwas
Veteran Member
Amarok may be coming to Canada:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/06/vw-amarok-pickup-heading-to-canada.html
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/06/vw-amarok-pickup-heading-to-canada.html
kjclow
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Old and frustrating news. Can't understand why it would come to Canada and not also to the states!
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
No chicken tax, maybe?
tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
This one was delivered at VW of Langhorne today only the 3rd 2013 New Beetle TDI delivered in the country to date!
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TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
It's not on your sig so I guess it's not yours eh, Tomo?
tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
It's not on your sig so I guess it's not yours eh, Tomo?
LOL! yeh I could see myself in a New Beetle.....No it was a friend of Lawson Earls that bought it
I actually am thinking New Passat....
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Will you drive a New Passat to the Fest?
tomo366
TDI Lifer, Member #68
No......