VW 1991 Euro Van TDI F/S 5 sp

super1

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Well this is his description from his ad so I guess it's updated to look like a 2003
"Absolutely fully loaded with all possible features and amenities. Upgraded to the coveted 2003 look with all original VW parts."


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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The T4 did not come around until 1992, and we did not get them until 1993. However, that one CLEARLY has the late T4 front clip, interior, SRS, window switches, rear reflectors, etc. So if it was "updated" from an early T4, which could only at its oldest be a 1992, it not only got a whole crap ton of work done to it, but it also got an engine transplant since the TDI 5 cyl also did not show up until the later (VERY late) T4.

I have a 1993 T4, June of 1992 build date, and it looks very different than the one pictured. I suspect it is either much newer and/or this is some sort of scam and the perpetrator simply doesn't know what Volkswagen Transporters look like.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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The T4 did not come around until 1992, and we did not get them until 1993. However, that one CLEARLY has the late T4 front clip, interior, SRS, window switches, rear reflectors, etc. So if it was "updated" from an early T4, which could only at its oldest be a 1992, it not only got a whole crap ton of work done to it, but it also got an engine transplant since the TDI 5 cyl also did not show up until the later (VERY late) T4.

I have a 1993 T4, June of 1992 build date, and it looks very different than the one pictured. I suspect it is either much newer and/or this is some sort of scam and the perpetrator simply doesn't know what Volkswagen Transporters look like.
Maybe not a scam, but it does seem to be a bit of a frankenvan. If it weren't for the color I might still find it appealing.
 

super1

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The T4 did not come around until 1992, and we did not get them until 1993. However, that one CLEARLY has the late T4 front clip, interior, SRS, window switches, rear reflectors, etc. So if it was "updated" from an early T4, which could only at its oldest be a 1992, it not only got a whole crap ton of work done to it, but it also got an engine transplant since the TDI 5 cyl also did not show up until the later (VERY late) T4.

I have a 1993 T4, June of 1992 build date, and it looks very different than the one pictured. I suspect it is either much newer and/or this is some sort of scam and the perpetrator simply doesn't know what Volkswagen Transporters look like.


I'm guess that the owner doesn't know VW Transporters? I'm sure he bought it from overseas & is just flipping it


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super1

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The VIN showing WW2ZZZ is not correct. It should be WWW if made in Germany. ZZZ is the designation for the European built chassis.......


The VIN Shows WV2ZZZ not WWZZZ if that makes a difference ???


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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
There is a possibility that it was "snuck in" through Canada via the 25-years-old-or-older import rules, and it has been retitled as a 1991 something-or-other.

But it clearly is NOT a 1991 model pictured.

There seems to be some strangeness with the VIN, as it does decode as a 1991 model, and it does decode as a "Eurovan", which makes no sense. So I looked in ETKA, and it does show the T4s did indeed start production in 1991. Normally the VIN decode would not bring up the North American market only moniker, it would just say "Transporter" since that is what they would have been called in Europe. The fancier ones would have been called Caravelle.

In any case, the VIN given (not pictured in any placards on the vehicle itself) deciphers as:

WV2 = German-built bus/van

ZZZ = non-US market (usually) fill digits

70 = T4 Transporter

Z = fill digit

M = 1991 m/y

H = Hannover plant

007809 = serial number


I'd like to see a pic of the dash VIN placard and the door jam VIN placard. Because those items would be more difficult to transfer from something else.

The other dead ringer it is not a '91 is the G12 in the coolant bottle, that is also clearly labeled G12, and the newer style engine info sticker on the upper radiator support. It just looks too "untouched" to be a 1991 that has had literally all of the 2003ish stuff transferred over that cleanly. I bet if you spoke to the seller in person he'd fill you in on the "real" story. Still a neat Bus, I'd love to have it! And I wouldn't care if it was a gray market snuck in titled as a 1991. I WOULD care that it does not have A/C. That would suck.
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Yeah, the big spot in the firewall with the perforations is where the expansion valve would pass through.

Many Euro-spec Transporters would not have A/C. Heck, the T4 was the first one that even had it as an actual factory option. Before that it was just a tacked on albatross of Fail that was put on with the "upfitting" stuff at the end of the Hannover line in a special room (like where many ambulances were finished out), or at port-of-entry, or worse... at the dealer.

My T4 has A/C in front and rear. :p I'll miss that when the Sprinter comes, since it won't have the rear unit.
 

super1

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Yeah, the big spot in the firewall with the perforations is where the expansion valve would pass through.

Many Euro-spec Transporters would not have A/C. Heck, the T4 was the first one that even had it as an actual factory option. Before that it was just a tacked on albatross of Fail that was put on with the "upfitting" stuff at the end of the Hannover line in a special room (like where many ambulances were finished out), or at port-of-entry, or worse... at the dealer.

My T4 has A/C in front and rear. :p I'll miss that when the Sprinter comes, since it won't have the rear unit.


Did you look at the pictures under photo bucket for more Pics? He has a shot with a I think is a thermometer says 40 could that be an ad on AC unit in the middle of the van?


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superdiesel

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Might be just a wall thermometer. 40 in Celsius is more than 100*F which is better than boiling��.
IMO it's 91 just to pass the 25 year but it's not.
 

super1

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Might be just a wall thermometer. 40 in Celsius is more than 100*F which is better than boilingí*½í¸‚.
IMO it's 91 just to pass the 25 year but it's not.


Ok on the wall thermometer
You really don't think it's a 91 even though that he said he upgraded it to a 2003 specs?
Anyway he got $21,900 pretty good


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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Ok on the wall thermometer
You really don't think it's a 91 even though that he said he upgraded it to a 2003 specs?
Anyway he got $21,900 pretty good


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It is not a '91. He would have had to change:

The engine
The transmission
The gearshift linkage
The entire instrument panel, including the cluster, HVAC, all the airbags, switches, steering column
The door panels and associated parts
The entire braking system
The entire front bodywork, including the entire lock carrier assembly, hood, lights, grills, bumper, bumper cover
Everything under the hood that you can see in the pictures

And then all the electricals to make all of those above items talk to one another. Because the early T4 is VASTLY different in that regard.

It would be MUCH easier to take the tags off of an early T4, along with its title, and "transfer" that to a perfectly nice unmolested 2003ish T4 in order to get past that 25 year import deal, which is what I think he did. You could probably contact him directly and ask.
 

mogly

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The T4 did not come around until 1992, and we did not get them until 1993. However, that one CLEARLY has the late T4 front clip, interior, SRS, window switches, rear reflectors, etc. So if it was "updated" from an early T4, which could only at its oldest be a 1992, it not only got a whole crap ton of work done to it, but it also got an engine transplant since the TDI 5 cyl also did not show up until the later (VERY late) T4.

I have a 1993 T4, June of 1992 build date, and it looks very different than the one pictured. I suspect it is either much newer and/or this is some sort of scam and the perpetrator simply doesn't know what Volkswagen Transporters look like.

Wrong. The T4s were available in late 1990 in Europe.

Transport Canada allows 15 year old vehicles to be imported into Canada. The USA has the 25 year ruling.

The TDIs 5 cylinders were offered in 1996 and production continued until 2003.
 

oilhammer

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Wrong. The T4s were available in late 1990 in Europe.
Transport Canada allows 15 year old vehicles to be imported into Canada. The USA has the 25 year ruling.
The TDIs 5 cylinders were offered in 1996 and production continued until 2003.

ETKA shows no 1990 model year T4. So "late" 1990 would be a 1991 model year. And ETKA shows IDI turbodiesels in use (no TDIs) as late as 2000 model year.

The van pictured is NOT a 1991 model year, sorry. The tag on the radiator support would show what model year the engine (and likely the whole van) truly is.
 

tdi-eyed

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Got to agree with oilhammer. This is clearly a later model T4; from the US side, this would be at least a 1997, based on the length and louvres just in front of front tires (in US, 1993 and 1995 had shorter body).
 

mogly

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They were sold in 1990 as 1991 models, sure but fact is they were available to be purchased and used in 1990.

A quick check to ebay.de or other related sites will quickly show you the 5 cylinder TDI was indeed available as early as late 1995.

VW phased out the "short nose" T4s when the introduced the VR here in North America. The ROW still had the short nose offered along with the long nose. On a ROW T4 the nose does not indicate the model year.

I am not disputing that the listed vehicle likley isn't a 1991 but pointing out the incorrect facts being presented.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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These things aren't cheap. Look on thesamba.com. Big dollars for old vehicles. However, when you compare these to what something like a new Sprinter RV costs, they're a bargain.
 
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