Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[tariq]

They still beat their expectations despite of the recall in this article.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/01/despite-scandal-volkswagen-sales-inch-up-in-sept.html
Yes they did not surge like the rest of the industry but they did not go up in smoke. Their sales just kept on smoldering despite being potentially detuned by the scandal. (all puns intended)

Given the story broke 2/3rds of the way into September, I'm sure October is going to be gruesome, and I'm sure VW know that.

 

[TDI smile]

This is the TDI Club forum, those other issues didn't effect our cars. What did you expect?

The subject has nothing to do with this forum, just hardly NOBODY got upset on the other subjects from the other Manufacturer.....sure is funny, and now lots of people are soooo upset with VW.
Law firms see the big business.... not much will come out of this....

 

[ZeroG]

The price is also less than D2. Run at least 2 tankfuls before the test to really dilute the remaining D2.

So there was a reason I was still following this thread. While this might be better placed on the alt fuel thread, here's the technical paper from Nat'l Renewable Energy Lab that Propel cites for its stats:

http://www.egreenee.com/wp-content/...estSummaryReportFeb2012they-belong-to-FED.pdf

They're using a 6.7L 330hp Cummins ISB engine. Unclear to me how the number would compare to performance in smaller VW engines.

 

[gene r]

I'm starting to think the lack of information from VW is deliberate, adding insult to injury. They've had around 18 months to prepare for crisis and over a week since the story went mainstream. There's no excuse.

http://www.vwemissionsinfo.ca/customers/

The only thing we know with any certainty is the cars are deemed safe.

Sorry for the fine whine.

Who says Germans do not have a sense of humor? I found #11 hilarious!

• 11. How can I trust VW quality and engineering?
  
  VW prides itself on the high levels of trust we have had among our customers both in Canada and abroad. We are committed at every level of the company to setting things right and winning back that trust.
  

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

Interesting. I pass by the Berkeley location regularly. I wouldn't normally use them, but now I might just before a smog test.

No reason not to. It is better than ULSD on just about every metric including price. Considering biodiesel isn't even an option for your car, this is a really excellent renewable fuel.

EDIT: Added bonus, less "guilt" for having a "polluter" . Sorry to go off topic, back to regularly scheduled programming. Much more info about HPR here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434322

 

[Softrockrenegade]

Got a friendly reminder today why I will be keeping my 2013 Passat

 

[TDI smile]

^^^ great.... nothing comes even close to those numbers!

 

[gcodori]

The Humble Mechanic podcast 99 indicated that CARB in California will give owners 6 months to get software updates (if that is the fix) before registration will be issued.

Then he mentioned owners "may" call Kerma or Malone to get their power back....

If its true sorry for the guys in California.

Here's what will likely happen in CA:

They will simply withhold registration without proof of the recall being done. How do I know this?

I live in CA. I held off on the December recall (23N5). I went to register and was denied. Had to get the recall done. Rushed down to the dealer to do this now before the REAL fix is issued.

Got the slip from the dealer stating 23N5 was installed, paid my fee and was done. Now I have one year from now to figure out how to do the fix when it is issued.

By the way - power feels somewhat more restrained or smoothed out after the recall. Before the Passat TDI was very surge-y at certain speeds - this has been smoothed over. Also the computer is now overly aggressive in calculating the MPG. When I fill the tank it tells me I'm going to get 810 miles (range).

 

[scottydog]

Honestly I still love my "tainted cheater gross polluter" 2015 Passat. I'm hoping to get some reimbursement for lost trade-in value, but by the time I sell the car 10 years from now the few thousand I get one way or the other won't matter. I'm glad I won't have to add a DEF system like I expect the Jettas will need.

And yes the mpgs seem 10% over estimated.

 

[zagato27]

I wouldn't want to do the trade-in anyway. No DSG on the new gasser TSI Golf, and they have dug through the trash to find the old 5-speed to offer us for the manual. No thanks. DSG and 6 speed are now GTI-only.

Beside the point because you are still only getting floormats and maybe an oil change from VW. But I would take a really good deal on a 5-door carbon-grey DSG GTI Autobahn if VW is listening, and would even go back and delete all my negative posts (PM me guys, let's get this done).

I'm right there with you! Same deal but with performance pkg.(don't know if it comes with the autobahn). *One more thing, if I have to shell out some cash for this I want 0% financing from VW...say 4-6 yrs.

 

[jbright]

I parked next to another TDI today and asked the owner what he thought of the whole VW brouhaha. He had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

 

[pparks1]

I parked next to another TDI today and asked the owner what he thought of the whole VW brouhaha. He had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

Seems about right to me. Most people I've talked to you have no idea anything is going on.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Dieselchen]

http://www.spiegel.de/international...anies-are-no-longer-big-league-a-1055098.html

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Given the story broke 2/3rds of the way into September, I'm sure October is going to be gruesome, and I'm sure VW know that.

Already offering incentives in Canada:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/vw-canada-offering-incentives-after-sales-plunge/article26624819/

 

[Softrockrenegade]

^^^ great.... nothing comes even close to those numbers!

 

[JBell]

Already offering incentives in Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/vw-canada-offering-incentives-after-sales-plunge/article26624819/

A little misleading. Incentives on new vehicle purchases only, correct?

I thought for a second they were incentivizing current owners, somehow.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

A little misleading. Incentives on new vehicle purchases only, correct?
I thought for a second they were incentivizing current owners, somehow.

New (and certified used), the previous poster I was quoting was quoting an article about VW sales, the article I linked to is about sales being way down in Canada and incentives to perk them back up again.

 

[kevin_in_idaho]

Got a friendly reminder today why I will be keeping my 2013 Passat

If VW cheated with software for emissions, it would take about 1 line of code to "miscalculate" mpg numbers. I wouldn't believe what the computer says. Just calculate it by hand and see if it's correct.

 

[rwolff]

I have a new headliner waiting at the dealer for me. I will be modifying one of my pistol safes to lock the obd2 connector in. Just remove the screws holding it to the knee brace and lock the connector in the case with a slot for the cord to pass through.

Slight problem with your solution - every cable has 2 ends. If VWOA mandates the vandalism on any car brought in, when you go to collect your car you'll find that your bill includes a new cable, and your old one was snipped off where it enters the pistol box.

A different solution (this one WILL void your warranty) is to, when the repair order for what YOU want fixed is written up, insist on it having the wording "This vehicle has aftermarket equipment incompatible with VW diagnostic tools connected to the CAN bus. DO NOT connect anything to the OBD2 connector - such a connection may cause damage to the vehicle and/or the connected equipment". Of course, you'd need to prepare in advance - unhook the connector from the stock harness, and connect it to your aftermarket equipment. What aftermarket equipment? A device which will detect an attempt to read from the connector, and on sensing this discharges roughly 500 microfarads of capacitors charged up to 500 volts down the data line. This should be enough of a jolt to "burn through" protective devices such as fuses (intended to catch a line pulled to rail by something like an aftermarket radio, and not expected to block a high voltage surge) and hit the computer itself. They complain that their computer stopped working when they hooked it up to your car? Obviously didn't read the work order, which SAID that there was incompatible equipment on the bus, and that they must not hook up to it.

In the past we've seen buybacks ordered by the NTSB for safety issues, but has there ever been a case where consumers were actually forced to give up their cars?

General Motors EV1. Admittedly they were only ever leased, not sold.

Those German engineers are pretty darn smart. Almost got away with it.

Seeing your avatar, I've got to add "And they would have got away with it if not for those meddling kids at WVU"

One thing I haven't seen mention of in connection with VWOA's "stop sale" order - what about leased cars where the lease is coming to an end? The leasing contract would give the customer the option of buying the vehicle for a specified price, and if the "stop sale" order comes from VWOA instead of the regulator, company policy does NOT override a contract. The person who had leased the vehicle, and wanted to buy it out at the end of the lease, could sue for specific performance (i.e. to get VW ordered to sell them the car, as specified in their lease contract). Would be interesting to see what happens if someone at the end of their lease shows up at the dealership (using alternate transportation to avoid the dealer being able to block the car in and keep them from taking it off the lot again) with a certified cheque for the buyout value.

 

[tobianogreg]

Diminishing concern?

Thu Oct 1, 2015 | 6:42 PM EDT

EPA says 'likely' recall of VW diesel cars
Reuters
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Thursday that a recall of affected Volkswagen < diesel cars in the ongoing emissions scandal would "likely" take place.

"EPA will require VW to remedy the noncompliance. It is likely that there will be a recall of affected vehicles," an EPA spokesperson said, adding that no specific timeline had been ordered yet.

The German car maker has said it would refit up to 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide.

(Reporting By Rory Carroll; Writing by Alexandria Sage)

 

[transmit]

One thing I haven't seen mention of in connection with VWOA's "stop sale" order - what about leased cars where the lease is coming to an end? The leasing contract would give the customer the option of buying the vehicle for a specified price, and if the "stop sale" order comes from VWOA instead of the regulator, company policy does NOT override a contract. The person who had leased the vehicle, and wanted to buy it out at the end of the lease, could sue for specific performance (i.e. to get VW ordered to sell them the car, as specified in their lease contract). Would be interesting to see what happens if someone at the end of their lease shows up at the dealership (using alternate transportation to avoid the dealer being able to block the car in and keep them from taking it off the lot again) with a certified cheque for the buyout value.

I'm really wondering about this especially since my lease is up in Feb and I was planning to buy my car. I'm already over the mileage limit and have extra wear and tear so not being able to buy the car would leave me owing for extra mileage and wear/tear if I simply returned it. What's gonna happen to leaseholders???

 

[ChemMan]

In the past we've seen buybacks ordered by the NTSB for safety issues, but has there ever been a case where consumers were actually forced to give up their cars?

General Motors EV1. Admittedly they were only ever leased, not sold.

NTSB never ordered buyback of EV1 for safety issues. GM internal management decided there was on profits in electric vehicles and destroyed them to end the project. They could do this because GM was the owner (as you point out leased not owned by customers). This is not really similar at all.

 

[Booth44]

EPA says 'likely' recall of VW diesel cars
Reuters
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Thursday that a recall of affected Volkswagen < diesel cars in the ongoing emissions scandal would "likely" take place.
"EPA will require VW to remedy the noncompliance. It is likely that there will be a recall of affected vehicles," an EPA spokesperson said, adding that no specific timeline had been ordered yet.
The German car maker has said it would refit up to 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide.
(Reporting By Rory Carroll; Writing by Alexandria Sage)

So a recall is only "likely" now? WTH?

 

[Bmr4TDI]

The last time I lied and got caught it took a lot to drag myself out of the mud.
I don't know you, but you're human just like the rest of us and I am sure you have probably told a few "whoppers " or done shady things. I am not asking and I don't frankly care.
And NO, before anyone starts with the devil's advocate B.S. I am not defending VW. However, I merely point out the old saying "be careful to point a finger, because there is always three pointing back at you".
A better question would be, what would it take for them to regain your confidence.
Personally, I love an underdog and would love to see VW drag themselves out of the mud and get back to businesses, but only after this has been properly fixed.

Thank you, this. is the better question "what would it take for them to regain your confidence." because they can't say anything that will make what they did okay.

 

[Bmr4TDI]

False. Some states may have registration issues, but most won't, and the EPA doesn't have the ability to block your State vehicle registration.

Mods: Count me in as one of those in support of a waiting period for new members. Could a post count requirement be used to gain access to this thread? The non-TDI owner trolls are not helping the cumbersomeness of this thread.

Not a troll dude, my join date was 9/17/2015. I came here looking to buy a TDI just moments before it all went south. Hell, look at my damn user name.

 

[tvmaster]

Do you actually understand how those incentives work?
The $7500 federal incentive is a tax credit. If you don't have more than $7500 in tax liability you won't receive the full incentive.

I would

The $2500 California incentive is a rebate. You get that money back after you buy or lease a vehicle.

you may, or you may not. there is a finite number available per vehicle. The dealership could not tell me if they had been used up or not.

*If* you choose to lease a vehicle, the federal tax credit goes to the dealer. That does three things for Californians: it gives us the entire $7500 regardless of tax liability, it reduces the cost of the lease, which in turn reduces the cost of ownership (lower payments and taxes).

a lease has restrictions. IF VW allowed you to pay it off a month later, that would be beneficial, otherwise, not so much.

You can choose to buy the car, but it'd be a worse deal for you.
The dealership never sees the California rebate.
It wouldn't be bait and switch anyway so I'm not sure why you think that applies.

the bait and switch was that they initially advertised $12k off, with no mention of it being a lease program. that seemed to change, online, days later.
And which car do you get "high 40's" in, here in Southern California?

 

[Softrockrenegade]

If VW cheated with software for emissions, it would take about 1 line of code to "miscalculate" mpg numbers. I wouldn't believe what the computer says. Just calculate it by hand and see if it's correct.

I know it's not completely accurate but I've managed full tanks over 50mpg when driving carefully (pen and paper) and gave no doubt that some carefully driven highway stints have resulted in close to 60 mpg. Remember car set a world record so my meger 50 something is nowhere near what this car is capable of with the right driving techniques. Either way my point was that I love the car and it gets great mileage and I'm not in panic mode ready to dump it.

 

[Todd_y]

So a recall is only "likely" now? WTH?

More "likely" than pushing them all off a cliff, shipping them to Russia to trade for vodka and caviar, buying them back from owners and giving them a golden ticket to Willie Woman's magical free new car factory, etc.

The EPA is rolling out it's own PR in sync with VW. They get to announce what will happen first, because VW is on a "time out".

 

[Jack Diesel]

Just spoke to a 2013 Passat TDI owner and asked them if they heard about this and they had no clue.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

If VW cheated with software for emissions, it would take about 1 line of code to "miscalculate" mpg numbers. I wouldn't believe what the computer says. Just calculate it by hand and see if it's correct.

My experience with a B6 Passat, my MkVI TDIs and my MkVII TSI is that the MFD is off from about 0-4% when compared to hand-calculated tanks, and that the same MFD can sometimes be bang on and sometimes off by as much as 4%. I attribute that to measurement variation: temperature, the fact that the fuel pump doesn't auto-shut off at the same point, etc. With diesels you can counter the latter by topping off each time, but you really shouldn't top off gassers as that can play havoc with the evap system. I did a spreadsheet of the hand vs MFD on my old B6 Passat some years ago and the error itself averaged out to 0.1 L/100 km. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

My older B5.5 Passat's MFD was off by somewhat more (around 6% or so) but it had a more primitive MFD.

That said, I consider the MFD accurate enough for comparative purposes. I get pretty consistent results under identical conditions.

Now whether a re-flash diddles with the MFD accuracy is another matter and that will require re-calculating to confirm...