Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[ColoradoDriver]

Link to agenda at court tomorrow: src.bna.com/eeG

 

[oilhammer]

It is not helpful to tell folks to simply drive more and worry less. .

I disagree. And thousands of my customers would, too. I've been able to keep people motoring happily along (even if I am not the one directly responsible for the actual mechanical service to their vehicles) in a way that gives them more financial security to be able to better spend their money. Things like a nicer house, better neighborhood, better education, etc. can all be obtainable if you are not spending so much money on transportation. Lots of people go bankrupt trying to drive a new car every few years. But, lots of people are bad at math, too. To each his own, just don't drag me down. I'm doing as best I can despite what hand life has dealt me.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of this whole cluster phuque, but if there's a buyback and they base part of it on mileage, I'm going to come unglued.
Like many, I can't afford to park my vehicle and let it sit without putting miles on it. I bought it new, it's one owner is me, and I've put over 71K miles on it ('14 Passat). I have to drive it, it's the only car I have.
Again, my coming unglued at any settlement doesn't much matter to VW, I'll just be pissed if I get screwed largely because of miles. The longer they have dragged lazy ass on this, the more I (we) have to drive to/from work, etc.

... looking back 500 pages ... Trade Value .. (NADA-KBB?) plus 30% (?) .. was out there, ... on settlement stuff.

... respectfully, mileage AND condition is a part of NADA & KBB values.

.... regarding condition there is rough, average, clean, etc.

.... as a rough figure (on newer cars) ~ 4-8 cents per miles is normal

... anyway good luck TDINJ

 

[qwaszxxx]

If a 100% buyback should happen (doubtful!), what about tax liabilities? I can just picture the IRS having a field day over depreciation schedules on our cars and gigging us with taxes on the money "earned" from the buyback!

I could be wrong about this, but I don't believe there would be any tax liability. Because this payment would be considered a settlement based based on damages incurred, we would simply be made 'whole.' This is similar to how when one receives a settlement after a worker's comp injury or car accident there is no income tax owed on that amount.

 

[Gonehuckin]

Link to agenda at court tomorrow: src.bna.com/eeG

My crystal ball and amateur reading between the lines on this agenda gives me hope that a legitimate proposal is being brought forth. It's now official that VW thinks they have a settlement everyone is going to agree to and therefore a trial will be moot.

 

[tobianogreg]

Full refund... or I keep driving as is.

I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud.

No problem either way.

 

[TCBinaflash]

Was just going to post this article and say the same.

It's buyback time.

 

[pwolfe]

Link to agenda at court tomorrow: src.bna.com/eeG

Can anyone decipher this for us pleb's in the room?

 

[mjLyco]

Full refund... or I keep driving as is.
I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud.
No problem either way.

I agree but for me it's full refund or bust. I already stopped driving it. The airbag is deadly and it pollutes. It sits in front of my house and I drive a different brand now. The fraud was admitted and it's now a matter of damages. In NJ, damages are mandatorily trebled.

What are the damages? Well who can say what would have happened if I didn't buy my car. Perhaps a $10k Used Civic would with no crazy high maintenance cost. (It was my other choice at the time, but decided to spend the money to be 'green' & have performance like my dad's 2009 Jetta TDI) That's damages of at least $18k right here. Triple that and you're at $54k. Add court cost, lawyer's fees, etc... They would be better off just refunding my original purchase price. $28k.

Like you said, "I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud."

 

[kitarkus]

Can anyone decipher this for us pleb's in the room?

It is merely an agenda for tomorrow. VW states that they do not believe that there will be a need to discuss a schedule for litigation as they imply that a solution has been agreed upon +/-.

 

[oilhammer]

I agree but for me it's full refund or bust. I already stopped driving it. The airbag is deadly and it pollutes. It sits in front of my house and I drive a different brand now. The fraud was admitted and it's now a matter of damages. In NJ, damages are mandatorily trebled.

What are the damages? Well who can say what would have happened if I didn't buy my car. Perhaps a $10k Used Civic would with no crazy high maintenance cost. (It was my other choice at the time, but decided to spend the money to be 'green' & have performance like my dad's 2009 Jetta TDI) That's damages of at least $18k right here. Triple that and you're at $54k. Add court cost, lawyer's fees, etc... They would be better off just refunding my original purchase price. $28k.

Like you said, "I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud."

Sounds like you already are. Wow.

 

[romad]

I agree but for me it's full refund or bust. I already stopped driving it. The airbag is deadly and it pollutes. It sits in front of my house and I drive a different brand now. The fraud was admitted and it's now a matter of damages. In NJ, damages are mandatorily trebled.

What are the damages? Well who can say what would have happened if I didn't buy my car. Perhaps a $10k Used Civic would with no crazy high maintenance cost. (It was my other choice at the time, but decided to spend the money to be 'green' & have performance like my dad's 2009 Jetta TDI) That's damages of at least $18k right here. Triple that and you're at $54k. Add court cost, lawyer's fees, etc... They would be better off just refunding my original purchase price. $28k.

Like you said, "I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud."

Except this is in FEDERAL court so NJ law does NOT apply, only Federal.

 

[kitarkus]

Except this is in FEDERAL court so NJ law does NOT apply, only Federal.

Should the 'offer' in Federal Court not meet his expectations...he may file an individual lawsuit in NJ...assuming that he purchased the car in NJ.

 

[romad]

It is merely an agenda for tomorrow. VW states that they do not believe that there will be a need to discuss a schedule for litigation as they imply that a solution has been agreed upon +/-.

And didn't someone post that an entire 10 minutes is blocked out for this case tomorrow? Sounds like it will be:

Plaintiffs & VW: We have reached an agreement, Your Honor.

Judge Breyer: You have? Then this case is settled.

Of course it will be in legalese, rather than plain talk.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Puntive damages?

Link to agenda at court tomorrow: src.bna.com/eeG

JOINT PROPOSED AGENDA
FOR APRIL 21 STATUS CONFERENCE
MDL 2672 CRB (JSC)
9.
PSC’s Request for Class Cert
ification Briefing Schedule
10.
PSC’s Proposed Trial Structure and Schedule
A.
PSC: Dependent upon the status and
progress of Item 1 above, Plaintiffs
propose an expedited hearing or bench trial seeki
ng declaratory, injunctive and equitable relief to
commence in July 2016; or an expedited “all issu
es” trial (including punitive damages) of the
claims of a subset of owners, to commence on the same date.
B.
Defendants: Defendants do not be
lieve any expedited hearing or bench
trial is appropriate or requir
ed given Item 1 above.
C.
United States: The United States reserves the right to comment on the
timing of any expedited hearing
or bench trial requested by the
PSC pursuant to Paragraph 12(A)
above, pending receipt by the United States of
additional information from the PSC about the
claims and issues to be tried, and
the associated re
lief to be sought.

Punitive damages?

 

[kitarkus]

And didn't someone post that an entire 10 minutes is blocked out for this case tomorrow? Sounds like it will be:

Plaintiffs & VW: We have reached an agreement, Your Honor.

Judge Breyer: You have? Then this case is settled.

Of course it will be in legalese, rather than plain talk.

Actually....it is 30 minutes...which should be more than enough time http://12.130.78.145/CEO/cfd.aspx?7134

 

[mjLyco]

Punitive damages?

Yes. Lawyers may seek punitive damages against VW to discourage this from happening again. Fairly standard stuff.

 

[bizzle]

Their official response to the PSC is they have a solution to point 1.

Which means they believe they have a settlement offer that will work for everyone. And are ready for April 21.

I would not read too much into that. Regardless of what VW thinks it has or doesn't have to offer, the agenda is not going to state, "VW is unprepared to deliver a suitable remediation plan."

 

[qwaszxxx]

Another good piece of reporting by Handelsblatt. (https://global.handelsblatt.com/edi...gates-roots-stretch-back-to-audi?ref=MTI5ODU1)

A lot of the info we heard yesterday, but at the end of the article was this:

---------------
"It’s been a complex process because VW has been negotiating with two different groups to reach out-of-court settlements: with the Department of Justice, the EPA, CARB and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) on the one hand and with the almost 600,000 affected VW drivers on the other.

According to information obtained by Handelsblatt, the most likely outcome is a partial success, but no definitive decision has been taken yet. In recent weeks, VW has devoted most of its efforts to negotiating a solution with the Department of Justice and the other authorities, said insiders.

VW may reach a deal with the authorities Thursday on the size of the penalties and explain in detail how the affected cars are to be repaired."

---------------

So who knows... They could surprise us tomorrow. But according to this, it isn't us customers they're most concerned about settling with first. I guess that makes sense... we aren't the ones who can file criminal charges.

 

[autdi]

I would not read too much into that. Regardless of what VW thinks it has or doesn't have to offer, the agenda is not going to state, "VW is unprepared to deliver a suitable remediation plan."

That wouldn't fit with the later statement in the agenda that no trial is needed because a settlement would be in place. If they were showing up with no plan, the judge already said plan or trial on the 21st. You don't tick off the judge that will later render the judgement if it goes to trial. Not supposed to matter when they look at the facts later, but humans being what they are, it works in somehow.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Yes. Lawyers may seek punitive damages against VW to discourage this from happening again. Fairly standard stuff.

.....pure guess ... car owners do NOT get punitive damages

Non-physical Injury Examples of non-physical injuries include breach of contract, employment wrongful discharge, discrimination, and libel. Damages received on account of non-physical injuries are taxable.

Compensatory damages received because of emotional distress that arose from non-physical injuries are taxable as well. The taxable portion of the damages may be reduced by the amount of medical expenses paid to treat the emotional distress, unless the amount of medical expenses was deducted on the individual's tax return. Punitive damages due to non-physical injuries are taxable.

There are some physical injury cases in which both compensatory damages and punitive damages are awarded. Examples include wrongful death and product liability claims. In these cases, the total amount awarded must be allocated between compensatory and punitive damages because the compensatory damages are nontaxable and the punitive damages are taxable.

 

[bizzle]

That wouldn't fit with the later statement in the agenda that no trial is needed because a settlement would be in place. If they were showing up with no plan, the judge already said plan or trial on the 21st. You don't tick off the judge that will later render the judgement if it goes to trial. Not supposed to matter when they look at the facts later, but humans being what they are, it works in somehow.

It's just an agenda. You can't infer whether the plan will or won't be accepted from it.

Step 1 states they're going to propose the plan.
Then the plaintiffs say if the plan isn't good enough they'd like an expedited trial while the defendants say they don't need one because their plan is good enough.

There's nothing else for them to say in this document unless they just want to flat out say there's no plan.

 

[kitarkus]

It's just an agenda. You can't infer whether the plan will or won't be accepted from it.
Step 1 states they're going to propose the plan.
Then the plaintiffs say if the plan isn't good enough they'd like an expedited trial while the defendants say they don't need one because their plan is good enough.
There's nothing else for them to say in this document unless they just want to flat out say there's no plan.

Exactly. If VW wants this portion of the legalities to end...the plan/offer will be sufficient to satisfy the various stakeholders. If VW wants to continue the bleeding and/or buy more time for themselves to come to terms...then the offer will be less than satisfactory. If less than satisfactory, I'd predict a settlement at midnight the day prior to a summer trial.

 

[Pseudonym]

VW to hike dieselgate provisions to double billion dollar amount

So that means at least $10b, but who knows how much higher? 15, 20?

sure is beginning to sound like they have a resolution now that this information is starting to leak out.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

VW confident the "fix" will avoid law suits

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...sel-fix-will-help-company-avoid-lawsuits.html



Chutzpah

 

[ATR]

One of the cars I was interested in when I was shopping for them was the Nissan Altima 4 cyl. Nissan claims 38mpg IIRC - Fuelly.com real world users record the Altima 2.5L getting no better than 28-30mpg. With mileage like that I'd rather have a Mustang V6 - very similar fuel mileage and 300hp = much more fun to drive. My only regret in buying the Jetta is VW's tripping over their own d*ck - the bastards!!!

Seems likely I'll be shopping for a car one more time - and I hate car shopping. Actually its the sales people I hate dealing with. I bought my car through the Costco Auto program which made it easier - still had to tell the sales guy to STFU a couple of times - same with the finance officer who was trying mightily to sell me an after market warranty. At least she got the idea after a couple of interrupted spiels.

Enjoy the day ya'll. I'm heading out for a round of golf - going to be 80* here today! Feels like summer.

I had a altima as a rental when I was in Louisville KY. Drove from there to Nashville TN. IIRC I averaged about 75-80mph the whole way down and back. I recall getting something in the mid 30's. I'd call that pretty decent for the kinds of speeds I was going

Granted most folks will be getting high 20s to low 30s with the altima. Then there's the AWEFUL rusting issues they had a generation or two ago.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I agree but for me it's full refund or bust. I already stopped driving it. The airbag is deadly and it pollutes. It sits in front of my house and I drive a different brand now. The fraud was admitted and it's now a matter of damages. In NJ, damages are mandatorily trebled.

What are the damages? Well who can say what would have happened if I didn't buy my car. Perhaps a $10k Used Civic would with no crazy high maintenance cost. (It was my other choice at the time, but decided to spend the money to be 'green' & have performance like my dad's 2009 Jetta TDI) That's damages of at least $18k right here. Triple that and you're at $54k. Add court cost, lawyer's fees, etc... They would be better off just refunding my original purchase price. $28k.

Like you said, "I refuse to suffer emotionally or financially from VW's fraud."

Treble?

Who gets the car?

..... Hilliard (HMG) my attorney is going for Treble ... naturally he will get more than half ... do I get a coupon?

 

[LogicBomb]

Or Promaster???

Promaster is out, because it turns out Fiat does not sell one here that is a passenger van, only a cargo van with windows, and I'd need to have a 3rd party company refit the inside, which I was not thrilled about.

So it is down to the Transit or the Sprinter. I am leaning more towards the Sprinter at this point, as I can get a "lesser" model one that will fit our needs for less money. The Transit would require an extra ~$6k of optional configuring just to get it to where I want.

And since I am still looking at nearly 10 grand worth of upfitting for the wheelchair lift and dual anchor points, I need to keep the purchase price within reason. But this will be a "forever" van, and it will need to serve us until both my boys have passed away, and that may be 20 years yet.

I didn't include the Promaster for that very reason. It's a good choice for a mobile workshop, but any kind of passenger use requires a retrofit. I, personally, like both of them and have driven both. I'm sure you'll enjoy either one for many miles/years.

 

[Pseudonym]

Can we all agree that no matter what the fix/compensation/buyback offer actually is, no matter which path they choose they are absolute fools if they don't offer massive incentives/rebates to current owners on 2016 VW's(even if part of the settlement is not having any TDI's to sell)?

Unless VW gives me an offer I can't refuse, I don't see myself ever buying another VW product. I think there are a lot of people in my shoes, its the only way I can see them ever having a shot at fixing and actually growing their business in the U.S.

 

[akjdouglass]

How about just keep driving it and not be concerned about it?

That's a complex concept the average poster on Theadzilla can't seem to grasp.