Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[JohnNS]

Has the EPA ever decertified a vehicle before?

I'm not familiar enough the US system to know what happens if they do. I assume, since they okay what's allowed on the road (emissions wise), if they decertify they are saying they are no longer legal - same as not passing a vehicle at all.

Wouldn't that mean states are no longer allowed to register them? I'm guessing at that point the actual emissions no longer play a part in it since it's strictly a registration/road worthiness issue. It'd be like me taking in an ATV and wanting to register it as a light passenger vehicle - it's not certified for it and would not be allowed. (probably a poor example but you get the idea )

 

[romad]

Google 10th Amendment to the Constitution. Read. Enjoy.

That and the 9th have been a dead letter for decades.

 

[pkhoury]

That or the CARB/EPA administrators hanging from the lamp posts!

Or put in prison. They can be cellmates with Leland Yee and his cronies.

 

[GSwag]

I am curious to see how they handle their new vehicle supply issue (from what I've read, VW has an issue supplying dealers with adequate stock as it is). If they float the buyback or trade-in scenario, but are unable to keep sufficient new vehicles on the lot to trade towards...additional people may go for the buyback offer and just buy another vehicle elsewhere.

Yep, they would be missing a great opportunity to keep people in vw's. I've said from the beginning there's no way they could make a trade-in scenario work. Can you imagine the *****ing that would be going on from all the owners needing to trade in their car? It would be worse than the diesel issue we are seeing now. People keep bringing up the trade in as an option but I just don't see how they could make that work and keep people happy.

 

[byundt]

I've said from the beginning there's no way they could make a trade-in scenario work. Can you imagine the *****ing that would be going on from all the owners needing to trade in their car?

If half the affected people want to do a trade-in on a VW, US dealers would almost double their annual sales volume. You certainly couldn't do that with cars already on the lot, but you might be able to do it by agreeing on price of new vehicle with options, with the actual trade-in delayed until the new vehicle is available. Perhaps by 2017 model year EPA/CARB compliant TDI would be available. Until then, we continue driving our old car and remain responsible for maintenance on it.

 

[geodug]

It looks like everything is going to work out great.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...-diesel-car-right-now-or-keep-the-one-you-own

I feel a lot better now.

 

[Pseudonym]

If Ken Feinberg's goal of 90% is accurate, the deal needs to be sweeter than that.
.

Yeah, that was an LOL worthy post. It amazes me how clueless people can be on both sides.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Seems like a lot of posts that have nothing to do with OP's original topic.
IMHO this is an extremely important thread, and I as we all do have a lot
at stake here, so we check in daily. I have to go through page upon page
to get through the off topic posts to get to the relevant information I need.
End of rant. My apologizes if I offend.

Thank you internet thread police.
1) This thread jumped the shark 1000's of posts ago.
2) The same thing gets regurgitated over and over occasionally interrupted
__by pissing matches breaking out from time to time or the invasion of trolls.
3) There has been nothing to report for a long time and all post including yours
___and mine are not important.
4) It really is not that important. Life goes on.

PS I am looking at buying a used 2015 TDI Golf SE TDI with 6K miles.
That is how much I care about this. When I have the last year VW TDI's
were sold in USA I will be driving a gold mine.

 

[PaulN]

PS I am looking at buying a used 2015 TDI Golf SE TDI with 6K miles.
That is how much I care about this. When I have the last year VW TDI's
were sold in USA I will be driving a gold mine.

Having worked in scandalous environments before, my "Spidey-senses" upon hearing the news announcement one week after buying my new Sportwagen TDI told me the next few YEARS should be interesting.

My overwhelming feeling then and since can best be summed up as - "Thank goodness I got it before the stop sale!"

Someone here suggested that the Goodwill Package was a wink from VW to get a tune and a fresh set of tires. In retrospect, it appears these delightful cars have been designed and manufactured "already tuned by VW" for the last eight years; bless their oily hands and hearts.

I'll be watching the 24th, but I have a feeling nothing will really happen. This whole adventure has yet to stop expanding, which seems like a prerequisite to planned fiduciary decisions by VW. Their big picture is that half their business is in China...

 

[cut'em]

Here's my million dollar question... I have all the parts on hand to change out my timing belt on my 2011 JSW which has 147,000 miles on it. Having it since new and pushing the belt beyond the limit for the past six months, I'm forced to change this thing as I need to run the car on a 1000 mile drive next week. IF and it's a big IF VW decides a buyback is going to take place, how long before we actually drop our cars off at the dealer? I have a back up vehicle but it's a 3/4 ton Ram which gets 13 mpg. It's killing me to leave the VW sitting in the driveway. Would you guys change the belt this weekend? It's an 8 hour job..

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I am curious to see how they handle their new vehicle supply issue (from what I've read, VW has an issue supplying dealers with adequate stock as it is). If they float the buyback or trade-in scenario, but are unable to keep sufficient new vehicles on the lot to trade towards...additional people may go for the buyback offer and just buy another vehicle elsewhere.

The pain of dieselgate biting them in the arse

 

[dmarsingill]

Here's my million dollar question... I have all the parts on hand to change out my timing belt on my 2011 JSW which has 147,000 miles on it. Having it since new and pushing the belt beyond the limit for the past six months, I'm forced to change this thing as I need to run the car on a 1000 mile drive next week. IF and it's a big IF VW decides a buyback is going to take place, how long before we actually drop our cars off at the dealer? I have a back up vehicle but it's a 3/4 ton Ram which gets 13 mpg. It's killing me to leave the VW sitting in the driveway. Would you guys change the belt this weekend? It's an 8 hour job..

Sounds like you have made up your mind that you want to get out of it.
If it were me, I would have changed the timing belt at 130,000 like you were supposed to. Until I hear the words from VW or the EPA, nothing is going to happen.

Donald

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Here's my million dollar question... I have all the parts on hand to change out my timing belt on my 2011 JSW which has 147,000 miles on it. Having it since new and pushing the belt beyond the limit for the past six months, I'm forced to change this thing as I need to run the car on a 1000 mile drive next week. IF and it's a big IF VW decides a buyback is going to take place, how long before we actually drop our cars off at the dealer? I have a back up vehicle but it's a 3/4 ton Ram which gets 13 mpg. It's killing me to leave the VW sitting in the driveway. Would you guys change the belt this weekend? It's an 8 hour job..

IF there's a buyback...it could take two weeks or 2+ months. You're already at the point where it could fail any day now. I would change it out. Look at it as protecting your "investment." If that belt goes and there is a buy back...you're going to get jack $h1t for your car (if they take it back at all).

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Here's my million dollar question... I have all the parts on hand to change out my timing belt on my 2011 JSW which has 147,000 miles on it. Having it since new and pushing the belt beyond the limit for the past six months, I'm forced to change this thing as I need to run the car on a 1000 mile drive next week. IF and it's a big IF VW decides a buyback is going to take place, how long before we actually drop our cars off at the dealer? I have a back up vehicle but it's a 3/4 ton Ram which gets 13 mpg. It's killing me to leave the VW sitting in the driveway. Would you guys change the belt this weekend? It's an 8 hour job..

If you drive the 13 MPG ram it will burn (about) 75 gallons of fuel

Guessing 40 MPG on your JSW you will burn (about) 25 gallons of fuel

Maybe the cost difference would be APPROX $80 to $100

Drink the hemlock of choice

--------------------------

regarding the buy back ~~ OMO it will not come for a long time

 

[autdi]

Has the EPA ever decertified a vehicle before?

I'm not familiar enough the US system to know what happens if they do. I assume, since they okay what's allowed on the road (emissions wise), if they decertify they are saying they are no longer legal - same as not passing a vehicle at all.

Wouldn't that mean states are no longer allowed to register them? I'm guessing at that point the actual emissions no longer play a part in it since it's strictly a registration/road worthiness issue. It'd be like me taking in an ATV and wanting to register it as a light passenger vehicle - it's not certified for it and would not be allowed. (probably a poor example but you get the idea )

Well, found the relevant part of the law should they decertify the engine.

40 CFR 85.2121 - Decertification

(f) Notwithstanding the requirements of paragraph (e) of this section, a part purchased by a vehicle owner as certified, shall be considered certified pursuant to this subpart.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/85.2121

So, to those who think that decertifying the engine means the EPA can get them off the road, explain away paragraph (f).

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

cut'um ADDENDUM

Originally Posted by cut'em
Here's my million dollar question... I have all the parts on hand to change out my timing belt on my 2011 JSW which has 147,000 miles on it. Having it since new and pushing the belt beyond the limit for the past six months, I'm forced to change this thing as I need to run the car on a 1000 mile drive next week. IF and it's a big IF VW decides a buyback is going to take place, how long before we actually drop our cars off at the dealer? I have a back up vehicle but it's a 3/4 ton Ram which gets 13 mpg. It's killing me to leave the VW sitting in the driveway. Would you guys change the belt this weekend? It's an 8 hour job..

---------------------

You are on the horns of delima (sp?)

If you are really counting on a buy back ~~ one other option you have is to park it.

 

[autdi]

If half the affected people want to do a trade-in on a VW, US dealers would almost double their annual sales volume. You certainly couldn't do that with cars already on the lot, but you might be able to do it by agreeing on price of new vehicle with options, with the actual trade-in delayed until the new vehicle is available. Perhaps by 2017 model year EPA/CARB compliant TDI would be available. Until then, we continue driving our old car and remain responsible for maintenance on it.

Did they stop manufacturing, or is there a parking lot somewhere filling with cars that roll off the line, and are not distributed? Ramping most manufacturing lines takes at most 6 months to fill the pipeline, they do it every time the model changes, generally in a month or less. Granted launch volumes are lower, but cranking out 500k cars isn't rocket science, you just have to be sure how you do it has an off mechanism to return to normal volume when the peak has passed.

 

[pkhoury]

With people wanting to get out of these cars, it's curious when searching craigslist that I can't find any Golf or JSW TDIs selling even remotely close to KBB; all are in the $10-15K range. Been thinking of getting another TDI now that mine is paid off, but they still seem to be going for a lot.

Anyone else noticing this? I'm also referring to both used car lots and private individuals.

 

[RedBug]

With people wanting to get out of these cars, it's curious when searching craigslist that I can't find any Golf or JSW TDIs selling even remotely close to KBB; all are in the $10-15K range. Been thinking of getting another TDI now that mine is paid off, but they still seem to be going for a lot.

Anyone else noticing this? I'm also referring to both used car lots and private individuals.

Probably because many of the TDi owners are either upside down or realize that that would be a bad financial decision to sell for less.

On the used car lots, I would venture to guess the dealers are in no hurry or paid a premium....

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

With people wanting to get out of these cars, it's curious when searching craigslist that I can't find any Golf or JSW TDIs selling even remotely close to KBB; all are in the $10-15K range. Been thinking of getting another TDI now that mine is paid off, but they still seem to be going for a lot.

Anyone else noticing this? I'm also referring to both used car lots and private individuals.

I've seen several adds like that. Most of them are stale adds and adds that the seller has been periodically refreshing. Even the moderately priced ones aren't moving. i.e. A '12 Jetta sedan with 101k for $8,900 (below).

It's at a dealer and has been listed for well over a month now, though it was just refreshed this morning (I periodically get on Craigslist just to see what they're listing for). 101k...that's not low miles, but it's not crazy high. I'm curious to know what it would actually take to sell this car. $8k? $7k? Again...this is at a dealer, so who knows what a private seller would have to drop to.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/5498095578.html

 

[autdi]

I've seen several adds like that. Most of them are stale adds and adds that the seller has been periodically refreshing. Even the moderately priced ones aren't moving. i.e. A '12 Jetta sedan with 101k for $8,900 (below).

It's at a dealer and has been listed for well over a month now, though it was just refreshed this morning (I periodically get on Craigslist just to see what they're listing for). 101k...that's not low miles, but it's not crazy high. I'm curious to know what it would actually take to sell this car. $8k? $7k? Again...this is at a dealer, so who knows what a private seller would have to drop to.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/5498095578.html

Don't discount a dealer has the car financed too, the bank may well want the car gone in X days, and the closer to auction you get, the more they may play ball.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Don't discount a dealer has the car financed too, the bank may well want the car gone in X days, and the closer to auction you get, the more they may play ball.

That's what you'd think. That car...we aren't talking about someone who listed their car and is going to just drive it until it sells. We're talking about a dealer who...in theory...should be motivated to move the car.

I first noticed that car over a month ago. I'm pretty sure that the price hasn't dropped, so they can't be in that big of a hurry. Who knows...maybe they got such a good deal on it that they're just going to sit on it for a while (who knows...they might be able to get it bought back).

 

[coolbreeze]

Thank you internet thread police.
1) This thread jumped the shark 1000's of posts ago.
2) The same thing gets regurgitated over and over occasionally interrupted
__by pissing matches breaking out from time to time or the invasion of trolls.
3) There has been nothing to report for a long time and all post including yours
___and mine are not important.
4) It really is not that important. Life goes on.

PS I am looking at buying a used 2015 TDI Golf SE TDI with 6K miles.
That is how much I care about this. When I have the last year VW TDI's
were sold in USA I will be driving a gold mine.

First off thanks. I always wanted to be a cop. Never been paid the compliment before.

Second, I purchased the 2013 TDI less then a month ago for the same reasons. Either it was my last chance to get back into a TDI that will be fun to drive and mod once the EPA gets its windfall and we get grandfathered by them, and VW is on the hook with us on the DPF for extended warranty, or I will get to be part of a Buy Back that could be profitable since I purchased at a devalued price last month.

There is always the chance I lose out but I feel the odds are in my favor, while I enjoy it as my daily driver and keep miles off my 16 GTI.

 

[autdi]

That's what you'd think. That car...we aren't talking about someone who listed their car and is going to just drive it until it sells. We're talking about a dealer who...in theory...should be motivated to move the car.

I first noticed that car over a month ago. I'm pretty sure that the price hasn't dropped, so they can't be in that big of a hurry. Who knows...maybe they got such a good deal on it that they're just going to sit on it for a while (who knows...they might be able to get it bought back).

I saw one far enough away, 2hr each way, that it's not reasonable to just pop over and look at it, but 13k for a 36k mile 2014 JSW. No free carfax on it, so I can't see when they got it, but that's low enough to get real tempted. I'm suspecting something wrong to be that price, which is why the distance is a problem.

 

[bryce850]

I love my Passat don't really want it messed with nor do I want to get something else because there is nothing else like it on the market in the US

 

[JohnNS]

With people wanting to get out of these cars, it's curious when searching craigslist that I can't find any Golf or JSW TDIs selling even remotely close to KBB; all are in the $10-15K range. Been thinking of getting another TDI now that mine is paid off, but they still seem to be going for a lot.

Anyone else noticing this? I'm also referring to both used car lots and private individuals.

Technically you're seeing ads for vehicles, not sales. Who knows if they're actually moving at that price.

Well, found the relevant part of the law should they decertify the engine.

40 CFR 85.2121 - Decertification

(f) Notwithstanding the requirements of paragraph (e) of this section, a part purchased by a vehicle owner as certified, shall be considered certified pursuant to this subpart.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/85.2121

So, to those who think that decertifying the engine means the EPA can get them off the road, explain away paragraph (f).

That seems to refer to modifications and add on parts, not entire vehicles. I can't find a case where EPA has decertified an entire vehicle.

 

[autdi]

That seems to refer to modifications and add on parts, not entire vehicles. I can't find a case where EPA has decertified an entire vehicle.

Nor would they, the EPA could care less about the floor mats which are technically part of the car. The only thing they have jurisdiction over is the engine and emissions system. Thus if they were to decertify anything it would be the engine, or the emissions system, not the car. Recall that other than the engine and emissions part, the remainder of the car is ok in other configurations.

 

[kitarkus]

I saw one far enough away, 2hr each way, that it's not reasonable to just pop over and look at it, but 13k for a 36k mile 2014 JSW. No free carfax on it, so I can't see when they got it, but that's low enough to get real tempted. I'm suspecting something wrong to be that price, which is why the distance is a problem.

Many months ago I spoke with a private party individual who had his car listed for months. He finally accepted $15K for his loaded 2013 JSW with 30K miles. He was a motivated seller and had no other options and very few inquiries. I'd think $13K for that car you see is within the realm of reality....while most listings at higher levels are merely wishin'. IMO you found a car with a reality based and motivated seller.

 

[autdi]

Many months ago I spoke with a private party individual who had his car listed for months. He finally accepted $15K for his loaded 2013 JSW with 30K miles. He was a motivated seller and had no other options and very few inquiries. I'd think $13K for that car you see is within the realm of reality....while most listings at higher levels are merely wishin'. IMO you found a car with a reality based and motivated seller.

Even scouring the dealer auction results finds few if any, so getting a "real" price is almost impossible as few/none are moving in the public view. It's almost like I should send the wife with our 2014 to dealers and see what they offer if they have one on the lot, then return myself and try to get one based on that offer off their lot. Doubtful it would work, but lacking any other means to determine a price, fishing might be all there is.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Technically you're seeing ads for vehicles, not sales. Who knows if they're actually moving at that price.



<snip>

100% correct ~~

....and sometimes they make $$$$ on the trade-in