Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
I've posted this several times already.

The government typically lets companies off with little penalty and zero jail time.

The facts and history show this.
http://www.warren.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1050

How VW is ultimately treated will be interesting to see.

I firmly believe they will be punished. But BP will nearly destroy the planet before the government fines them anything significant.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
One thing that is constantly left out is that those companies pay a LOT more in other ways. They pay for clean up/fixing the problem, they pay compensation to the aggrieved parties, etc.

Since you brought up BP: http://www.wsj.com/articles/bp-agre...deepwater-horizon-oil-spill-claims-1435842739

They've paid out over 50bn at this point. 5.5b of a possible 13b in fines. 18b to settle all fedaral and state suits. 4b to settle criminal suit. 10b in civil suits. And they still had to cap and clean up.

The gov often does settle for less on their fines and it's generally an exchange for the company fixing or addressing the overall problem they caused.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Phoenix
TDI
Happily none
It's to the point where the VW brand in America is not worth saving... An American company would have filed the bankruptcy already, added some decontented Audi models to fill the gap, and told the dealers "tough sh't". VAG has a lot of guts for trying to keep VW in the American market.
Yeah, they're great, our kids should use their behavior as a role model :rolleyes:...Mark
 

GSwag

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Location
Georgia
TDI
2013 Passat
It's to the point where the VW brand in America is not worth saving... An American company would have filed the bankruptcy already, added some decontented Audi models to fill the gap, and told the dealers "tough sh't". VAG has a lot of guts for trying to keep VW in the American market.
Pfftt.....they'd be screaming for a bailout. Part of me wants to respect but they are making it very very hard
 

diesel55

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Location
Pasadena, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SEL
For you gamblers out there.

A1. CA only: Keep TDIs on the road with no modification: 45%
A2. Force some TDIs to be retrofitted to comply with modified or existing rules: 15%
A3. Force all TDIs to be retrofitted to comply with modified or existing rules: 20%
A4. Force TDIs off the road completely: 20%

B1. Aggregate US govt. penalties assessed to VW <= $500,000,000: 10%
B2. Penalties > $500,000,000 <= $2,000,000,000: 35%
B3. Penalties > $2,000,000,000: 55%

C1. VW of America continues as a viable automobile brand thru 2021: 70%
C2. VW of America ceases to exist between now and 2021: 30%

D1. VWAG continues as a viable automobile brand thru 2021: 95%
D2. VWAG ceases to exist between now and 2021: 5%

E1. VW offers no buyback of TDIs in US: 20%
E2. VW offers buyback of selected TDIs in US: 35%
E3. VW offers buyback of all TDIs in US: 45%

F1. All buyback offers at adjusted blue book value or below: 60%
F2. Some buyback offers at adjusted MSRP or higher value: 20%
F3. All buyback offers at adjusted MSRP or higher value: 20%

G1. There will be a criminal prosecution of one or more VW employees in the US, related to the cheating scandal : 25%
G2. There will be no criminal prosecution: 75%

H1. Aggregate value of US class action cases settled by end of 2018 <= $1,000,000,000: 60%
H2. Aggregate value > $1,000,000,000: 40%
 
Last edited:

Jeta Life

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
Why don't we give this all a rest until the 24th of March.
After that date, I predict this thread will REALLY blow up. ;)
I tell myself this will be the last time I post on this thread and hear I am back again like a drunk or an addict with a chemical dependency...the thread is too darned addicting...like your idea with the 80s MB diesel.

And ..I agree with the guy who said just have VW eat the fines and grandfather (Ferdinand Porsche) these TDIs..

Would be the end of story...but would they let VW off the hook so lightly...stay tuned
 
Last edited:

kitarkus

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Location
Kansas City USA
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
For you gamblers out there.

A1. CA only: Keep TDIs on the road with no modification: 45%
A2. Force some TDIs to be retrofitted to comply with modified or existing rules: 15%
A3. Force all TDIs to be retrofitted to comply with modified or existing rules: 20%
A4. Force TDIs off the road completely: 20%

B1. Aggregate US govt. penalties assessed to VW <= $500,000,000: 10%
B2. Penalties > $500,000,000 <= $2,000,000,000: 35%
B3. Penalties > $2,000,000,000: 55%

C1. VW of America continues as a viable automobile brand thru 2021: 70%
C2. VW of America ceases to exist between now and 2021: 30%

D1. VWAG continues as a viable automobile brand thru 2021: 95%
D2. VWAG ceases to exist between now and 2021: 5%

E1. VW offers no buyback of TDIs in US: 20%
E2. VW offers buyback of selected TDIs in US: 35%
E3. VW offers buyback of all TDIs in US: 45%

F1. All buyback offers at adjusted blue book value or below: 60%
F2. Some buyback offers at adjusted MSRP or higher value: 20%
F3. All buyback offers at adjusted MSRP or higher value: 20%

G1. There will be a criminal prosecution of one or more VW employees in the US, related to the cheating scandal : 25%
G2. There will be no criminal prosecution: 75%

H1. Aggregate value of US class action cases settled by end of 2018 <= $1,000,000,000: 60%
H2. Aggregate value > $1,000,000,000: 40%
I'm in. Where do I Paypal my wagers? :)
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
Yup, absolutely love it!! Has always worked perfectly for me and my family!!
Started using it in '64 and hasn't failed me once.
I've been to Canada throughout the last 20 years. I've met numerous people who HATE your guys' healthcare system; many saying that their sick parents had to come to the United States to get certain treatments. A few common reasons given were lack of equipment necessary for treatment and also the health care system downright refusing to treat them. I know these aren't just a few people. In fact over 50,000 did this in 2015. I'm sure it costs a pretty penny so if more could afford to do it, as opposed to lying on their death beds, I'm sure they would.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
Are you the person who bought a salvage title car?
He bought the car with a salvage title AFTER dieselgate came to light. I think it's buyers remorse, when he could've done his homework on repair costs, the country where VW is based, and other factors. I'm still thinking a troll without any legitimacy to his gripes.
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Quick question for those who are concerned about VW exiting North America. Does anyone really think that the EPA/CARB will allow VW to leave without first forcing a buyback and then leveling a fine?

Just curious.

I actually don't think they will leave North America, mostly because they are heavily invested here, the main reason for the plants in Mexico is because not only can they benefit from cheap labour but NAFTA guarantees that cars build in Mexico can be imported to the US duty free. Those plants would be a lot less useful to VW if they stopped selling cars in NA.
As I understand it, Mexico has free trade agreements with many countries around the world. Those cars can be sold duty-free in many places; it will just cost a bit more for shipping.
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
As I understand it, Mexico has free trade agreements with many countries around the world. Those cars can be sold duty-free in many places; it will just cost a bit more for shipping.
Correct. And that is why so many American companies are leaving for Mexico. Most recently, Carrier and more of Ford, ironically.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
Not a dimple, a separate inter connected chamber where combustion starts.
Also NA= naturally aspirated meaning no blower or turbo. The old Detroit 2 stokes needed a blower to get air to the combustion chamber, they didn't have the torque, or fuel economy of a Cummins, or Cat, so they were not loved by all. When the EPA started regulating commercial vehicles, that was the end of 2 stoke diesels, no chance of meeting emissions with them, so Detroit had to design 4 stokes to replace them. I hope that clears thing up for you.
That makes sense. I also heard EMD shot themselves in the foot, because they'd been doing 2 strokes for years, and don't really have a suitable/reliable 4 stroke prime mover (in the railroad world, prime mover is the name for the diesel engine), whereas GE has been doing 4 strokes for years. Caterpillar now owns EMD, and GM originally offloaded it in 2005.

You mentioned the Alco diesels, the Coast Guard Cutter I was on in the 60s was powered by 2 Alco V12s.
They were good engines and fairly reliable. Despite ALCO going out of business in the late 60s, Montreal Locomotive Works (whom I think was directly related to ALCO, but based in Canada) continued to make parts for a number of years. Even the Russians cloned ALCOs that were there during WWII. They have a VERY distinctive sound when running, but were not very clean burning (one of several factors why ALCO went bankrupt). And to think at one time, it was a major player in the diesel (and steam locomotive) industry!
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
As I have read this entire thread I don't recall reading any post from someone that works at a dealership as a tech/salesperson etc,or as a worker in the factory here in the states or abroad, you would think someone would have chimed in by now with any inside worries/fears/rumors coming down the pipeline or generally being tossed about the establishment. I would think it has to be scary as Hell for them right now. You think they are held by some kind of privacy/confidentiality agreement? or no one involved has really not found there way here yet?



Guessing They are here -- but with the good sense to be shy :rolleyes:
 

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
I've been to Canada throughout the last 20 years. I've met numerous people who HATE your guys' healthcare system; many saying that their sick parents had to come to the United States to get certain treatments. A few common reasons given were lack of equipment necessary for treatment and also the health care system downright refusing to treat them. I know these aren't just a few people. In fact over 50,000 did this in 2015. I'm sure it costs a pretty penny so if more could afford to do it, as opposed to lying on their death beds, I'm sure they would.

It's been great for my family too, *shrug*.

Now if you really want to get in to this debate, let's talk about people choosing food or medicine. Let's talk about people traveling from the US to other countries to get procedures done for a fraction of the cost. Let's talk people dying in the hallways because they were ignored for not having insurance.

Having *lived* in Canada for 40+ years I can say our system may not be perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than the mess you guys got going on down there.
 

kitarkus

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Location
Kansas City USA
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
As I understand it, Mexico has free trade agreements with many countries around the world. Those cars can be sold duty-free in many places; it will just cost a bit more for shipping.
Yet another kettle of worms...and more work for lawyers. Some will argue it unfair to pollute whether here or there....others only concern is whether the pollution is in their own 'back yard'. Throw another country in the mix and it gets even more political. There was some narrative from one of the Senators at the Legislative Hearing last week about this very issue.

Solutions to this whole mess get complicated quickly. Solutions which are favorable to VW are nil.
 

SageBrush

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Location
CO
TDI
None
I've been to Canada throughout the last 20 years. I've met numerous people who HATE your guys' healthcare system; many saying that their sick parents had to come to the United States to get certain treatments. A few common reasons given were lack of equipment necessary for treatment and also the health care system downright refusing to treat them. I know these aren't just a few people. In fact over 50,000 did this in 2015. I'm sure it costs a pretty penny so if more could afford to do it, as opposed to lying on their death beds, I'm sure they would.
Can you *really* not tell the difference between a longer waiting period for an elective surgery, and your melodramatic "dying on a deathbed" nonsense ?

Nice deflection though, since the local descent into fascism at the circus is a political topic. Best to continue squirming over that extra $1000 VW owes everybody.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
I've been to Canada throughout the last 20 years. I've met numerous people who HATE your guys' healthcare system; many saying that their sick parents had to come to the United States to get certain treatments. A few common reasons given were lack of equipment necessary for treatment and also the health care system downright refusing to treat them. I know these aren't just a few people. In fact over 50,000 did this in 2015. I'm sure it costs a pretty penny so if more could afford to do it, as opposed to lying on their death beds, I'm sure they would.
My personal experience with it in Ontario, there are no doctors accepting new patients in many areas. Sure I got the provincial health card, but the waiting list to get assigned a doctor was running about 3 years wait. When asking around the office what folks that moved to the area were supposed to do to get their kids in to see a doctor, they all said the same thing, ER. The very thing that universal healthcare was supposed to remove, using the ER as your primary doctor, was the only option for years until someone, maybe close, maybe someone you are comfortable with, will accept you as a patient.
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
It's been great for my family too, *shrug*.
Now if you really want to get in to this debate, let's talk about people choosing food or medicine. Let's talk about people traveling from the US to other countries to get procedures done for a fraction of the cost. Let's talk people dying in the hallways because they were ignored for not having insurance.
Having *lived* in Canada for 40+ years I can say our system may not be perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than the mess you guys got going on down there.
100% agree with you on the cost of health care here; it's atrocious. I hope they either cap it or government steps out completely. This half-way stuff isn't going to cut it.

I'm not a fan of big government, but I also think people shouldn't be turned down for pre-existing conditions. It's a whole slew of things that I think should be changed here, not for this thread though. Going to get too long.
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Corporations aren't just some evil entity....they are made up of people....some executives at the top messed up and if you look at the state of the company the punishment is happening. All the EPA/CARB has to do now is figure out what we do with the cars here in the states.

They don't need to be punished more, that's not hurting VW it's hurting the people that work for VW.
Agreed.

A relatively few individuals (likely including some of the highly-paid executives) chose to break the law. But the probable punishment is that a bunch of innocent shareholders will pay for the violation.

I don't know one way or the other, but it would surprise me if I didn't own a few shares of VW stock via the mutual funds in my IRA/401(k). I know that I did nothing wrong, but the actions of a couple of dozen VW managers may have cost me money.
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
Can you *really* not tell the difference between a longer waiting period for an elective surgery, and your melodramatic "dying on a deathbed" nonsense ?
Nice deflection though, since the local descent into fascism at the circus is a political topic. Best to continue squirming over that extra $1000 VW owes everybody.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top