Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[autdi]

He was a sales guy and helped the dealers out. Did not know the U.S. Dealers spent so much on renovations at their dealerships, that will make things more interesting.

Remember 1B over 600 sites, that works out to less than $2M a location. For commercial buildings, that's not much for any building reno.

 

[TCBinaflash]

Remember 1B over 600 sites, that works out to less than $2M a location. For commercial buildings, that's not much for any building reno.

True, but in perspective how much profit do these dealers turn yearly?

That seems a large enough number the monthly note on that is a long term investment they are in the hook for.

And their business model is crumbling.

So, I understand NADA's concern.

 

[Jeta Life]

Remember 1B over 600 sites, that works out to less than $2M a location. For commercial buildings, that's not much for any building reno.

$500 goodwill per customer x 600,000 customers (let's assume they get 300,000) is about $150,000,000, still well short of the 1 Billion spent. No wonder they came up with goodwill, still now the Europeans want their goodwill too.
You know most of us are not going to spend the other $500 at the dealer, I still haven't spent mine as I am not spending money on a car they may end up in the crusher, they wouldn't be so cruel to VW would they ?
Donald, that VW emblem on the article you referenced was just what the doctor ordered, thanks for the laugh, I may have to come up with a way to decorate my car, that new emblem would sure be cool.

 

[miniion26]

What don't you get? You posted a link to a news site, and you stated, "Months ago VW was deleting." How do you know this is true? If you had said, "Hey, check this out.", it would be different. Anyone can sue anyone(or corporation), but it doesn't mean it's true. I'm tired of everyone taking an article and making it gospel. When VW or the EPA releases an official statement at a news conference, it becomes real.
I'm as anxious as the next guy to find out the solution, but only so we can move on, not to bash a company or agency into the ground.
Donald

Spot on !

 

[newbeetleman]

$500 goodwill per customer x 600,000 customers (let's assume they get 300,000) is about $150,000,000, still well short of the 1 Billion spent. No wonder they came up with goodwill, still now the Europeans want their goodwill too.
You know most of us are not going to spend the other $500 at the dealer, I still haven't spent mine as I am not spending money on a car they may end up in the crusher, they wouldn't be so cruel to VW would they ?
Donald, that VW emblem on the article you referenced was just what the doctor ordered, thanks for the laugh, I may have to come up with a way to decorate my car, that new emblem would sure be cool.

I bought tires for my daughters Impala, at the VW dealer. just told them the tire size and the ordered them.

 

[newbeetleman]

You are stating this as if you know it is fact. I can sue VW for being fired....and I never worked there.

Donald

how far do you think you would get with that? Think a lawyer would even touch it?

 

[dmarsingill]

$500 goodwill per customer x 600,000 customers (let's assume they get 300,000) is about $150,000,000, still well short of the 1 Billion spent. No wonder they came up with goodwill, still now the Europeans want their goodwill too.
You know most of us are not going to spend the other $500 at the dealer, I still haven't spent mine as I am not spending money on a car they may end up in the crusher, they wouldn't be so cruel to VW would they ?
Donald, that VW emblem on the article you referenced was just what the doctor ordered, thanks for the laugh, I may have to come up with a way to decorate my car, that new emblem would sure be cool.

That wasn't me...it was kitarkus....but it was cool.

Donald

 

[Jeta Life]

I bought tires for my daughters Impala, at the VW dealer. just told them the tire size and the ordered them.

That's one way to do it. There's no way I'm spending any more on my TDI. My daughter is a few years away from drivers ed, my Jetta would be her car assuming it doesn't get crushed.

Part of me just wants a buyback check at pre scandal KBB so I could end my misery with this car. I'd take the check and look for a beat up V70 or SUV perhaps. What a miserable 6 months this has been.

 

[newbeetleman]

That's one way to do it. There's no way I'm spending any more on my TDI. My daughter is a few years away from drivers ed, my Jetta would be her car assuming it doesn't get crushed.

Part of me just wants a buyback check at pre scandal KBB so I could end my misery with this car. I'd take the check and look for a beat up V70 or SUV perhaps. What a miserable 6 months this has been.

yeah, not knowing is a pain. I would like to do some things to my car, but I won't until I know for sure what is going to happen.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Your TDI will only be crushed if you let them...

I don't believe there has ever been a mandatory recall or buyout. Just keep your TDI and run the wheels off it, as a VW bankruptcy that leaves us with nothing is more likely than an MSRP buyout. Instead of pulling the plug on your TDI, lay in a stock of parts and tools in case VW pulls out of America.

 

[tobianogreg]

I don't believe there has ever been a mandatory recall or buyout. Just keep your TDI and run the wheels off it, as a VW bankruptcy that leaves us with nothing is more likely than an MSRP buyout. Instead of pulling the plug on your TDI, lay in a stock of parts and tools in case VW pulls out of America.

It may well turn out that we will have little choice but to "run the wheels off it" but there's no way I would voluntarily assume liability for the vehicle because of VW's malfeasance.

There are no guarantees that at some point in the future these cars will not be legislated off the road. Why assume this financial risk?

 

[ibsam2005]

But, with a bankruptcy, VW USA is tied to the VWAG so I am not sure how they could pull that one off. I am sure with lawyers that make as much as they do, they could figure it out. What is most likely, VW pulls from US market, EPA/CARB fights tooth and nail for what little they can get, and leave nothing to us.

I am sure, VW dealers will turn into Dongfeng, and will offer the beautifully styled and high quality H30 to replace your JSW. VW may work with us, and trade us our JSW's for a BRAND NEW H30 as part of our package. I can smell that new car smell now! Might even have that beautiful smog smell straight from Beijing.

 

[kitarkus]

For those looking for any factual information relating to Diselgate

I estimate this page to be the sole provider of tangible and verifiable information relating to Dieselgate http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwmdl
This page will be updated with transcripts of any/all information relating to the court case (sans any information deemed proprietary by the Court).

Anything else you read in the media or hear posted by me and others on this forum should be considered for its entertainment value only.

Enjoy your popcorn.

 

[tobianogreg]

If everyone bails on owners it'll be dpf delete and 2 micron for me the minute my warranty expires.

 

[romad]

I estimate this page to be the sole provider of tangible and verifiable information relating to Dieselgate http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwmdl
This page will be updated with transcripts of any/all information relating to the court case (sans any information deemed proprietary by the Court).

Anything else you read in the media or hear posted by me and others on this forum should be considered for its entertainment value only.

Enjoy your popcorn.

So, are there any legitimate journalists here who can be allowed to call the CourtCall toll-free number and listen to the March 24th 8:00 A.M. PDT status conference?

 

[SageBrush]

True, but in perspective how much profit do these dealers turn yearly?
That seems a large enough number the monthly note on that is a long term investment they are in the hook for.
And their business model is crumbling.
So, I understand NADA's concern.

As a 4% apr, 20 year note, that works out to payments of about $10,000 a month.

No wonder they are cranky

Anybody remember the olde Spy Vs Spy comic ?

VW and its dealerships is a Sc*m Vs Sc*m cartoon

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Michael Horn's "departure" or "ousting" or "resignation" will have little effect on the "fix" or "buyback".

He was a sales guy and helped the dealers out. Did not know the U.S. Dealers spent so much on renovations at their dealerships, that will make things more interesting.

Is there any good news 2015vwgolfdiesel ?

Have a good day sir.

Morning Jeta

On the home front, I am fine .. car is fine .. yesterday checked resale value with NADA and was surprised it was higher than with KBB

(IF) I ever need-want to sell I will use NADA as the go to value

Also the KBB resale was (about) even for last few days

My local vw dealership just got through with a large remodeling.

Wishing him (Don Thornton VW) good sailing ~~ will need him for "STUFF," going forward. ~~ Do not know any VW TDI GURU guys here in Tulsa

 

[autdi]

But, with a bankruptcy, VW USA is tied to the VWAG so I am not sure how they could pull that one off. I am sure with lawyers that make as much as they do, they could figure it out. What is most likely, VW pulls from US market, EPA/CARB fights tooth and nail for what little they can get, and leave nothing to us.

VWOA is a separate corp from VWAG, the only owner of the stock of VWOA is VWAG, but just like the owners of GM stock were not pursued for the balance of the GM bankruptcy, neither can VWAG be pursued for the bankruptcy of something they own through stock.

 

[autdi]

If everyone bails on owners it'll be dpf delete and 2 micron for me the minute my warranty expires.

VW Canada may survive, the Canadian government doesn't seem out for blood so far.

 

[kitarkus]

So, are there any legitimate journalists here who can be allowed to call the CourtCall toll-free number and listen to the March 24th 8:00 A.M. PDT status conference?

I was wondering the same thing. Do you think that credentials are required? I planned to try calling the number. It may simply be a massive group conference call with no credentials needed. Breyer is attempting for transparency.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I don't believe there has ever been a mandatory recall or buyout. Just keep your TDI and run the wheels off it, as a VW bankruptcy that leaves us with nothing is more likely than an MSRP buyout. Instead of pulling the plug on your TDI, lay in a stock of parts and tools in case VW pulls out of America.

Not practicable for us ol' poots

 

[XJTdi]

The Big Picture

True, but in perspective how much profit do these dealers turn yearly?

That seems a large enough number the monthly note on that is a long term investment they are in the hook for.

And their business model is crumbling.

So, I understand NADA's concern.

Much has been said about VW closing up shop and going home stranding their owners and becoming "orphan' cars. My opinion is VW is saber-rattling to try and get any concessions from EPA-CARB it can.

Look at it from the big retailer perspective, The federal complaint includes VWAG, VWoA, Audi, and Porsche. The profits from the whole are quite substantial. It is true they do not make much on a VW, but it is a loss leader if you will to get you into the family. Their hope is to get you to upgrade to Audi or Porsche. They make good money on those.

Even if they scuttle VWoA they still have to do something about the 80k Audis' and Porsches' left here. Will they abandon those owners as well?

What can the government do? As VWAG as a whole is a defendant in the federal complaint as well as Audi and Porsche, they could extend the 2016 model ban or embargo their entire product line into the future. Effectively ending all sales in the US. Does VWAG really want that? It's established by this point they knowingly stuck the US market with non compliant products that they take no responsibility for.

Does VW want to take that chance?

I was at our local dealer Saturday for the 130k service. It was a ghost town. Their were more used cars of other brands on the lot then new VW's. We were looking at a used A5 while we were waiting and the salesmen said he would see what they would give us for the TDI. Quite the change from a few months ago when they would not give it the time of day. They also had a used TDI Beetle on the lot sold as a CPO. The trick is it's another outfit doing the certifying not VW. All in all the dealers are really hurting.

Sad-

Of course this is all my opinion - Now back to Goat talk - (I actually enjoy the Goats, Gensets, and locomotive talk)

 

[Nicolae]

VW Canada may survive, the Canadian government doesn't seem out for blood so far.

You might be surprised. I received a letter from Ottawa Transport Gov. to have them install a device in my car an monitor the emissions and all sort of data.
I already answered them and this is what they replied:

Thank you for your interest in the test. We have compiled the following answers to your questions:

 

1. What is the period length of the testing performed by the device on the vehicle?

The device is to be plugged into the vehicle for three weeks. This three week study period is determined once you register your information.

 

2. If the device attached to the car causes adverse effects or component failure in the testing period/future, whether foreseen or otherwise, who pays for the future repairs?

The logger has been installed 20,000 times without incident related to failures; malfunctions are extremely rare and only occur with certain makes and models.  Should any damage occur to the vehicle, the situation would be assessed on a case-by-case basis to determine whether the logger was responsible for the damage.  If the logger was a factor then costs would be evaluated for reimbursement.

 

3. How much mileage are you proposing the device to stay attached to the car?

The device is to be plugged into the vehicle for three weeks, regardless of mileage. When you sign up for the study, we will ask if the vehicle will be driven at least once during the study period. If you know that it will not be driven, we will not send you the data logger.

 

4. Does the device track location or whereabouts of the vehicle?

The device uses a GPS but we are only looking at travel patterns collectively. Transport Canada will only share aggregate statistics. Any identifying information is removed from your data.

 

5. Are the insurance companies involved in any of the tests/ results?

No, insurance companies are not involved in any of the tests/results. They would have access to information that could be found on the Transport Canada website or reports that can be requested by the public.

 

6. Are the tests involved directly / indirectly related to the Volkswagen Diesel Scandal in the U.S.?

No, this study has been running in its current form since 2011 for light vehicles, and we include every type of vehicle. However, one of the purposes of the study is to look at fuel consumption and air emissions.

 

Please let us know if you have any additional questions and if you are interested in participating given this information.

 

Regards,

-- 
The Canadian Vehicle Use Study Team /
L’équipe de l’Étude sur l’utilisation des véhicules au Canada
R.A. Malatest & Associates Ltd.
1-855-522-2887

 

[mjLyco]

VWOA is a separate corp from VWAG, the only owner of the stock of VWOA is VWAG, but just like the owners of GM stock were not pursued for the balance of the GM bankruptcy, neither can VWAG be pursued for the bankruptcy of something they own through stock.

Sure they can. Look up "piercing the corporate veil".

 

[tobianogreg]

Thank you Nicolae. Good to know that something is happening in the background.

As far as legislated penalties go, VW Canada is exposed to $6 mill plus, possibly, the profit from each car with a defeat device.

 

[autdi]

Sure they can. Look up "piercing the corporate veil".

That only works if VWAG failed to hold regular meetings of the VWOA corporation. Since nobody else owned stock, nobody outside VW would have needed to be told of it. The way you get to pierce the veil is if VWAG failed to have those meetings, or if VWAG was signing things directly for VWOA, or was not using dividend distributions to send money from VWOA up to VWAG.

There is no point in creating a separate corp if you then fail to keep up with the actions necessary to keep the liability contained within that corp.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Sure they can. Look up "piercing the corporate veil".

As I am in a CAS ~~~ Hoping this is one tool to get at Mother Germany's $$$$

 

[Lex4TDI4Life]

Sure they can. Look up "piercing the corporate veil".

Which is a very low-probability move for anyone looking to recover $$$ from VWAG based on its ownership of VWOA. It usually only works when an unsophisticated business or thoroughly bad actor egregiously mixes their finances up. Very doubtful that VWAG would make that mistake, but I have been wrong before

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

More good resale news i. e. KKB

Checked this morning with KBB ~~ My car is UP $120 from the last look

Better than a sharp stick in the eye

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Setting up a bunch of separate corporations as firewalls to limit liabilities is SOP for big companies. For example, Flowers Baking is darn near nationwide and has dozens of bakeries, each bakery is a separate company. They own no trucks and employ no drivers, so if one of their distribution contractors gets into a multi-million dollar accident, they can't be touched.