Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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applejacks

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2014 Jetta TDI
So you don't think there should be a NTSB, or USDA, or NFS, or Department of Homeland Security or Army Corp of Engineers?? No health inspecting for your food, or requirements of what makes a road or bridge safe enough for the public to drive on?

The standard may be too stringent but unless your basing it off good science it's just an unfounded opinion. But alas I must be off quickly to horse and buggy since that is what the Founding Fathers would have driven.
What you are missing is that the EPA didn't do any checks on the vehicle, they simply took the word of VW. It's now stated that 11 million vehicles are under investigation and the EPA didn't catch this, nor would they have had a third party not find it first. And it's quite possible that the third party is tied to a Union who is pissed VW rejected them. It's always a circle...

But, why is the EPA not being investigated?
 

Aquaticmind

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The EPA is not the fried of the environment or that of any citizen.
I'd rather have the EPA around than not. Before they started regulating emissions from cars, trucks and from factories we had rivers catching on fire, prolific smog in many cities, acid rain in the Northeast, widespread ait pollution shortening the lives of Americans, fish that were toxic to eat out of the river (we still have issues with that, but it's alot better than it was 20 years ago) etc etc.

Dealing with these things issues has made America a better place to live and made the economy stronger.

Now the kids can run fast enough to get away when they a TDI coming down the road! :D
 

CTValleyTDI

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Location
MA and VT
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2014 Passat TDI SE
We had our 2014 NMS Passat TDI serviced yesterday @ 41k. A few thoughts:

1) Heater core is plugged. There is another VW conspiracy on this one! (well, kind of...)
2) I remember getting a recall notice for a cold weather turbo issue. But now there is no such recall in the dealer's system?? They weren't trying to reflash cars as they came in for routine service, were they??

AND...just saw VW is admitting that this software issue affects 11 million cars worldwide, not just 500k in the U.S.

I cannot imagine that they don't offer material consumer compensation, at least eventually. BTW, I also own a B8S4.
 
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rhino4evr

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Boca Raton, FL
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2013 JSW TDI
That's why I started the comment by stating "for me" as in - here in Massachusetts....
Oh sorry, misread.


So question...how big of a problem do you think this is? Is it possible multiple manufactures have been doing this? What happens if this is much more wide spread then VW?
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
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Location
va
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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Yes chicken little, blowhard. And I guess you aren't taking the bet. Figures.:rolleyes:

Dont write checks your wallet can't cash, cupcake.

Mind your panel.
 

Aquaticmind

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What you are missing is that the EPA didn't do any checks on the vehicle, they simply took the word of VW. It's now stated that 11 million vehicles are under investigation and the EPA didn't catch this, nor would they have had a third party not find it first. And it's quite possible that the third party is tied to a Union who is pissed VW rejected them. It's always a circle...

But, why is the EPA not being investigated?

Only 500,000k are from the US. The standard protocol is for the companies to do the testing not the EPA. The US citizenry doesn't seem to want the EPA to spend the money to do independent testing and I agree that the cost of being tested should be covered by the manufacture. What are your expectations of the EPA and how much do you want to pay for them achieve those goals?

No need to go down the conspiracy theory route, VW cheated and admitted it. EPA did their own testing and worked with VW for over a year to fix it, but VW couldn't.

The EPA isn't being investigate b/c there is absolutely no reason to investigate them. They did exactly that I would have wanted them to do. Investigated a issues, worked with the manufacture to fix it then issued a Notice of violation when VW's explanations fell apart. It is actually a pretty good example of government working well.
 

GoBucks!

Active member
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Location
Hilltowns of W MA
TDI
2014 Passat SE 6M
What you are missing is that the EPA didn't do any checks on the vehicle, they simply took the word of VW. It's now stated that 11 million vehicles are under investigation and the EPA didn't catch this, nor would they have had a third party not find it first. And it's quite possible that the third party is tied to a Union who is pissed VW rejected them. It's always a circle...

But, why is the EPA not being investigated?
No, EPA did catch the discrepancy between lab and real world results. Have you even read the timeline of this?
 

CASVV

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Location
Maryland
TDI
2015 Golf S
So you don't think there should be a NTSB, or USDA, or NFS, or Department of Homeland Security or Army Corp of Engineers?? No health inspecting for your food, or requirements of what makes a road or bridge safe enough for the public to drive on?

The standard may be too stringent but unless your basing it off good science it's just an unfounded opinion. But alas I must be off quickly to horse and buggy since that is what the Founding Fathers would have driven.
Yes, the EPA is in the constitution under the clause that says that congress could regulate interstate commerce. One of the most important jobs of ANY governments in history was Consumer Protection, including checking the weights and measures of merchants. In the Middle Ages cheating from merchants was such a problem that some Kings had to establish the death penalty. All of those who hate government,,,,if want to live in a country without government try Somalia. Such a paradise. No problems with stupid government over there.
 

cd_booth

Veteran Member
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Location
Brighton, Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
No computers, no stations, no anything in Florida. You don't even need to get in your vehicle. You can renew from the comfort of your john using your mobile phone.

I realize this isn't the case for everyone, especially in CA, where it seems they frisk you at renewal each year.
Same case here in Michigan. Send your registration and state park pass fee (optional) and you're golden for a year. I'm curious if there will be any measure of compliance here.

It would be funny to me if I had to jump through hoops to re-register my TDI while I also have a 15 MPG Jeep Wrangler in the garage.
 

raybo

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Location
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TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
Yes, the EPA is in the constitution under the clause that says that congress could regulate interstate commerce. One of the most important jobs of ANY governments in history was Consumer Protection, including checking the weights and measures of merchants. In the Middle Ages cheating from merchants was such a problem that some Kings had to establish the death penalty. All of those who hate government,,,,if want to live in a country without government try Somalia. Such a paradise. No problems with stupid government over there.
Thank you!
 

Borsig

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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Yes, the EPA is in the constitution under the clause that says that congress could regulate interstate commerce. One of the most important jobs of ANY governments in history was Consumer Protection, including checking the weights and measures of merchants. In the Middle Ages cheating from merchants was such a problem that some Kings had to establish the death penalty. All of those who hate government,,,,if want to live in a country without government try Somalia. Such a paradise. No problems with stupid government over there.

Im not sure that the consumer will see any protections here.

Arguably, the enviornment will, but not the consumer of a TDI.
 

tdireader

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TDI
Frustrating for me is that half the source material says the 2013/2014 NMS is included and the other half does not. For example: https://news.google.com/news/story?...ved=0CCgQqgIwAGoVChMIsZDgp-KKyAIVQ1g-Ch09mA7B

Still, if they are now talking about ~11 million vehicles world wide. It most likely will be included.

If the TDI is discontinued in North America, our vehicles may become gain value long term (versus regular depreciation).
 

tyrntlzrdking

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I also have not seen anyone comment on the fact that the 23o6 udate notice was "a nother LIE" by VW. It stated reason for being applied was correcting a flaw in the MIL/CEL for some special somthing or other. IT did not say it was to fix exess NOX out the tail pipe.
texsize
I agree. The the 2306 was a lie.

The 2012-2014 Passats got the 23N5 Service action which was supposed to decrease turbocharger boost to end turbo failures.

The 2015 Passats got the 23N7 which was supposed to fix a battery discharge problem.

All lies or half truths.
 

mrvermin

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GTA
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2001 Jetta TDI
No computers, no stations, no anything in Florida. You don't even need to get in your vehicle. You can renew from the comfort of your john using your mobile phone.

I realize this isn't the case for everyone, especially in CA, where it seems they frisk you at renewal each year.
My point exactly, in ONT Canada, emissions testing is just a cash grab and not a method of cleaning up the air. As long as the NOx sensor comes up in "Ready" status, you passed emissions and are good to go. Where I live, they treat emissions testing as just another Tax. It is a Hippy Tree Hugging Feel Good Joke.

MrVermin
 
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Dimitri16V

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DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
VAG admitting "cheat " in place in 11 million cars globally

Stock down 40%

Winterkom wishes he was ousted
 

SageBrush

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Location
CO
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None
I do have some hope that there was a small team somewhere stalling the EPA for a year, but now that upper management is involved, they're being genuine in their statements that this needs to be made right
You can bet on it. The above mentioned small team are easy to identify: just look for the "scapegoat" plastered to their forehead.
 

CASVV

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Location
Maryland
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2015 Golf S
Because the emissions are too stringent. And the EPA is not mentioned in the US Constitution. Therefore, anything the EPA does is an overreach.
The EPA is constitutional. If I'm not wrong this was one of Nixon's less controversial ideas. Those who want to get rid of the EPA are to the right of "tricky Dick". Scary.
 

Borsig

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Location
va
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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
As I stated, a blowhard, or someone who just spouts off on things he has no clue.
Another internet mouthpiece that want to sling insults and nonsense that he wouldn't say to someone's face - there's a shocker. Keep up the name calling and insults, it only reinforces your position.

Ask anyone who's dealt with VW in the past what their resolution will be.

Past precedent / historical empirical data > your mouth and hurt feelings.
 

rhino4evr

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Location
Boca Raton, FL
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2013 JSW TDI
Same case here in Michigan. Send your registration and state park pass fee (optional) and you're golden for a year. I'm curious if there will be any measure of compliance here.

It would be funny to me if I had to jump through hoops to re-register my TDI while I also have a 15 MPG Jeep Wrangler in the garage.

and that's why this whole thing is asinine. These "regulations" are practically being broken by a massive number of vehicles on the road every day.

I agree that VW should have made sure their cars pass the regulations by the EPA.

Do you know how many SUVs/Large Trucks/Hummers are still on the road. They guzzle gas and eat away at your environment in their own way.

I do not agree that these vehicles should now be altered to meet some "regulation" that a majority of autos probably don't follow in the first place.
Leave my car alone.
 

busdrvr

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SE WI
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09 sportwagen tdi,6spd man. Traded 7/2015 for 14 Allroad.
Well said abacus

I don't agree with vw's actions

The epa does an important job, but they are far from infallible. It creeps me out to see some of the tireless and tiresome blanket defenders of the unelected and unaccountable "experts"
 

vwUMO

TDIClub Enthusiast
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Location
Maine
TDI
2003 JSW TDI 5MT ,2012 Jetta TDI 6MT, 2013 jetta TDI 6MT
Nobody is listening to you. Are you OK with fraudulent business practices or just a fan of totalitarianist workings? YOU just keep driving-- off the nearest pier. We are hurting.
Actually plenty of people listen to me. Continue "hurting". I don't feel defrauded honestly and many others feel similarly. The issue is between VW and EPA. If the car smoked and stunk, and didn't pass inspection (which today it does)I would make a different value judgment but it does not. I just refuse to pile on in an uneducated and finger-pointing fashion at this point as it's still early. There have been far worse disasters with autos, planes, trains, etc, that I feel more strongly about. My guess is, some of the same people stomping their feet about "i bought this because it was clean" also still shop at Whole Foods - which, by the way, was deceptive in their pricing practices. Decisions are made in business sometimes that are regrettable later; human factor exists everywhere, but at least give folks a chance to make it right.

Telling me to drive off a pier would suggest that you wanted me to harm myself. I'm thinking that's not very "clean" of you or inclusive of differing viewpoint.
 

applejacks

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Indiana
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI
All of those who hate government,,,,if want to live in a country without government try Somalia. Such a paradise. No problems with stupid government over there.
I do believe checks should be in place, but no one is doing the checking. Whats the point of the EPA if it can't do what it is in place to do? They can fine people for collecting rain water but not catch a vehicle that doesn't comply with emission standards?

Everyone is bashing VW for cheating the system. Let's be real here....someone let them cheat the system. 500k vehicles locally that fall under the EPA, possibly more if the 3.0 is an issue...11 million potentially wold wide and it wasn't caught by the people who administer the regulation.

Yeah...
 

Borsig

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Location
va
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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Id argue that most people here are of exactly that mindset-

VW and EPA have a problem, VW lied, and will be punished, and should be.

Leave our cars alone. Period.

Compensate us fairly for lying.

Correct the issue going forward.

If certain folks want to volunteer to be "detuned" and lose mpg and power for their "feel goods" then the volunteer line starts at your nearest dealer.

ende.
 

CASVV

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Location
Maryland
TDI
2015 Golf S
VW has admitted the problem involves 11 million cars worldwide and is taking 7 billions to repair the damage. We will see if the EU users affected by this blame their regulator or if they place the blame where it belongs.
 

rhino4evr

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Location
Boca Raton, FL
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Id argue that most people here are of exactly that mindset-

VW and EPA have a problem, VW lied, and will be punished, and should be.

Leave our cars alone. Period.

Compensate us fairly for lying.

Correct the issue going forward.

If certain folks want to volunteer to be "detuned" and lose mpg and power for their "feel goods" then the volunteer line starts at your nearest dealer.

ende.
Amen!
 

texsize

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Location
southern california
TDI
2013 jetta DSG.
Quote rhino4evr
No computers, no stations, no anything in Florida. You don't even need to get in your vehicle. You can renew from the comfort of your john using your mobile phone.
I realize this isn't the case for everyone, especially in CA, where it seems they frisk you at renewal each year.


The DMV in FL has your VIN #. the VW dealer has the VIN #. they tell the DMV " don't let xyz vin # get a new registration untill we (VW) have re-programed the ECU"
that's game over for any state that has a DMV.
texsize
 
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