I absolutely LOVE all the fear mongering going on, how VW is done, the TDI is dead, and we'll all die of cancer now that VW 'lied' to us.
Meanwhile I'll continue to smile while driving my trusty B4's with bigger injectors and chips that put out a lot more 'pollutants' than anything in this decade.
I have perused this thread (minus the last 12 pages that cropped up overnight....c'mon guys!) and have some tidbits that warrant a response:
dst5 said:
It doesnt matter how small a number you start with they fact is VW committed fraud against the government and every citizen that breathes air by lying purposefully and error of omission is a lie. If you don't think so than maybe you should reevaluate your morals.
We can talk about your morals when you put them on display for us or we catch you at something. Until then, the EPA doesn't exactly have the highest moral standing either. Maybe it's time to reassess your morals if you aren't looking at the history on both sides of the equation. As to the 'fraud against the government', I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at that one! Oh that is just too funny.
Aquaticmind said:
The EPA bashing is without merit. The Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act have improved the health of millions on Americans and healthy people are necessary for a strong economy. I'll take the clean air and water, you can have a burning Cuyahoga River and chronic asthma.
Try to remember that the "EPA spill" was caused by a private contractor (i.e. a private business) working for the EPA at an abandoned private mine site. The EPA and the contractor were trying to clean up a mess left by a private mining company, since the mining company abandoned the site after the cave in happened and the private mining compnay left the toxic mine waste behind for someone else to clean up. The mine waste would have leak out sooner or later had the EPA and contractor not been there.
Without merit? You mean like the spill they knew was more than likely beforehand (AP FIOA request), the lack of a suitable disaster plan, the denial to release initial analysis data to state agencies, and the doctoring of the video they put up on their own website because it painted them in a less than positive light? Oh no my friend, the EPA has earned its reputation.
And don't get me going on the Clean Water or Air Act since I have dealt with those regulations and regulators over the last 24 years as an environmental engineer. I have stories that would make Mother Teresa's blood boil. Suffice to say, the EPA does NOT have our best interests at heart nor are they concerned with anything so noble as protecting us. You agree with them because you see what they want you to see and not behind the scenes. They are not your friend.
That is not to say I agree with what VW did, but I
understand it.
As to the private contractor ricochet, they were hired by the EPA who was on site directing them. That they were not in the operators seat is irrelevant. They were also not there trying to clean up the mess, they were doing a site assessment, try to get your facts right if you're going to deflect responsibility. To anyone who doubts this, do the research, there is plenty out there and how it was mishandled by the EPA from the very beginning. If a private company tried to do this they'd be in jail right now, but the EPA is not culpable or responsible.
rotarykid said:
And on emissions rules, if they were really about the common good making the air cleaner, not about politics the most heavily polluting of what is sold today would be at the top of the list when it comes to passing stronger regulations....
The vehicles which pollute the heaviest today are trucks & suvs, which exist today in a loophole for emissions and CAFE......A loophole bought by the introduction of, a the cost of the current non-existent then or now light duty diesel autos.....
Current over stringent light duty diesel emissions rules on vehicles which no one has sold here since 1986 do not, will never give us cleaner air......
This enforcement of this violation of law, will not ever make any difference in pollution anywhere in the US....this is today a feel good by some enforcement action, while continuing to allow gasoline powered trucks & suvs their loophole operation.
Exactly, it's like dumping a beer on a forest fire. The EPA will go after VW like a rabid dog and VW will pay a huge fine, all while the EPA sells credits to the largest polluters to keep them in operation while doing multiple orders of magnitude more damage to the environment they are supposed to protect. Your credibility as a 'protection agency' goes out the window, and it's all legal.
When they start regulating all forms of pollutant the same, since we 'live in one world', then maybe their rules will have more merit. But so long as the rules are for sale to the highest bidder and ignored by numerous point and non-point sources, they will continue to be ineffective.
Random Vibration said:
2011tdiproject said:
You guys saying what VW did was "wrong", well, let me ask you this, did any of us get to vote on these emissions standards? It's not unethical or immoral to violate something that doesn't have a right to exist in the first place.
No but the people who made these decisions were voted on. Did you talk to your congressmen and senators and tell them you disagree and they should pass legislation to delay or roll back this regulation? Did you post your concerns to the EPA during the public comments phase of the draft proposal? When legislators are voted into office, you have your say. Writing a letter to your representatives is having your say. By the same token, not voting and writing is opting out of choosing.
Choosing not to going along with a decision because it didn't go your way can be unethical and immoral. Society works because everyone does not get to do whatever
they feel like is moral and ethical.
Have you been through the comment process? I have multiple times and it's a joke. Individual comments are ignored and not considered and mass comments are dismissed as being from fringe groups without standing. The regulators do as they want since that is their agenda and the ends justifies the means, they know better than some uneducated petulant children. It's all about a cleaner world and you just don't understand. They know better than you since they were elected to office and you were not, therefore they assume their will is to be enforced and not yours, regardless of the science, the ego, or the absurdity.
As to being immoral or unethical to 'go along with' the enforcement and made up laws on which you had no say, I call bunk on that. This very country was FOUNDED on such dissension. No, we as individuals are not ethically or morally obligated to follow such dictated conformity when such rules have caveats for sale to the highest bidder. Sorry, but I will not be some mindless automaton blindly following orders of people with ulterior motives.
So to recap, I do not agree with what VW did, but I understand it. I also do not agree with the EPA's methodology or rationale on clean air or the Clean Air Act (or the Clean Water Act for that matter). VW will pay a hefty fine, make nice with the EPA, get sued by CARB (who does receive money from the penalty even if the EPA's goes to the Treasury), make a correction the EPA signs off on, and this will all blow under the rug in short order. The TDI's will take a hit on the fuel economy and hybrid owners will point to this to justify their purchases. In short, the world will keep spinning as we know it.
Meanwhile, I'll keep my rusty, smokey, dirty old TDI's going as long as I can because that is what benefits me as an individual. If rules are in place to make me an environmental criminal, then I have no problem being one.
