Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Cayman]

oilhammer ~~ you have me dead to rights on all engines in the total line up.


My (LIMITED) knowledge is my car. And I still do not know one tenth of the functions on how to operate it


But.... I have great pride in my best MPG at 60.1 going to Mom's house

Without my knowledge or permission the VW dealer installed the 23O6 "fix" on my car. I get 39mpgs now, and the dealer/VW refuses to remove the update. I bought the car with expectations it would be competitive with the likes of a Prius with respect to fuel economy. I'm not going to get a tune at this time, because buy backs may occur and that would be a waste of money.

Life circumstances do come into play, I bought the car knowing that it would hold it's value better than most cars, and if push came to shove I could sell it for a decent price. My company went under a month ago and I'm on the job hunt, and my car is worthless. Thanks VW

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Without my knowledge or permission the VW dealer installed the 23O6 "fix" on my car. I get 39mpgs now, and the dealer/VW refuses to remove the update. I bought the car with expectations it would be competitive with the likes of a Prius with respect to fuel economy. I'm not going to get a tune at this time, because buy backs may occur and that would be a waste of money.

Life circumstances do come into play, I bought the car knowing that it would hold it's value better than most cars, and if push came to shove I could sell it for a decent price. My company went under a month ago and I'm on the job hunt, and my car is worthless. Thanks VW

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"Without my knowledge or permission the VW dealer installed the 23O6 "fix" on my car. I get 39mpgs now, and the dealer/VW refuses to remove the update."

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Good gosh ~~ how did that happen?

Guess I will be overly scared to take my car in for "anything" after the "FIX" is here.

Who do we trust? Sure not the vw corp. Now maybe the dealerships TOO

With the EPA-CARB-vw involved --- who can say who to trust

 

[I800C0LLECT]

sigh... Another "anti-epa...its not vw's fault" propagandist..
You had mentioned that you are not defending VW... sure seems like you are.

Not defending...just wanting an outcry against all parties vs. singling out the one financially responsible.

Maybe everything went over your head?...as I never stated VW did nothing wrong. Maybe it's easier to insert words into my argument so my comments are easily dismissed.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Cayman----

"Life circumstances do come into play, I bought the car knowing that it would hold it's value better than most cars, and if push came to shove I could sell it for a decent price. My company went under a month ago and I'm on the job hunt, and my car is worthless. Thanks VW "


Sorry about your company -- hoping you for a speedy new (better) job

 

[Torque17]

Pre-Scandal Price - UNFAIR

My ideas for VW to survive are that they must do something DRASTIC.
By drastic I mean blockbuster. A possible idea for VW:
Buyback all the Gen 1s. Give owners two options: either get a check CASH based on what your car was worth pre-scandal. Not a new car.
Second option: give away new Volkswagens for those that want to stay with VW. this is DRASTIC. Drastic times for drastic measures.
Hey 2015vwgolfdiesel : Do you have AdBlue ?
Or if the EPA approves give us the " Magic Mullite NOx trap " which has either been rejected or disappeared.

Disagree with your First Option (compensate by pre-scandal price):

Pre-scandal price is UNFAIR by far. I never intended to sell my car. If the buyback offer is not reasonably generous, I m not taking it. If I am forced, I will look into other ways. Either way, not going to have another vag product. Will keep driving this (12 golf tdi) as long as possible.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Not defending...not just wanting an outcry against all parties vs. the one that will be responsible for payouts.

Maybe everything went over your head?...as I never stated VW did nothing wrong. Maybe it's easier to insert words into my argument so my comments are easily dismissed.

Respectfully,


I am a party in the mess. All I did was buy a car. I do not need or want an out cry against me.

No disrespect to you

No insult intended

No insult taken

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Respectfully,


I am a party in the mess. All I did was buy a car. I do not need or want an out cry against me.

No disrespect to you

No insult intended

No insult taken

fyi...I own one of these diesels too.

 

[mjLyco]

And just what judge and court has jurisdiction? And being that the hack was only needed to meet the US EPA's extreme emissions standards, it might very well have been created by VW engineers in the US. And do you even have evidence of where the hack was created?

This is looking more like the dragged out for decades asbestos litigation every day...

VWAG still does business in the US with Porsche and Audi. They would have to dissolve all their US companies and assets. Then they would have to try and block criminal charges that would probably come their way from that. Also, how would they be able to fulfill warranty claims on non TDI models, etc.. They might be able to hide behind German sovereignty, but that's a PR nightmare for their global image.

How do I know VWAG created the cheat and not VWOA? Because they ADMITTED that the cheat was in all cars sold WORLDWIDE. They have said it only breaks U.S. laws but they're still fixing cars in the the E.U. and India is suing them, etc.

I don't understand why you're defending them so much. Do you work for them? Shareholder? If so, I feel bad for you, but they still committed fraud. They are liable.

I agree, this will be dragged out unless they get in front of it... they haven't so far so they probably won't.

 

[Cayman]

-------------

"Without my knowledge or permission the VW dealer installed the 23O6 "fix" on my car. I get 39mpgs now, and the dealer/VW refuses to remove the update."

-------------

Good gosh ~~ how did that happen?

Guess I will be overly scared to take my car in for "anything" after the "FIX" is here.

Who do we trust? Sure not the vw corp. Now maybe the dealerships TOO


With the EPA-CARB-vw involved --- who can say who to trust

I took my car to the dealer for a warranty repair in December 2014, the oxygen sensor needed to be replaced. They flashed the ECU at the same time, and my fuel efficiency dropped big time, as did the acceleration from a dead stop.

With regards to my job situation I have several companies interested in my services and I won't be out of work for long. Thanks!

 

[Philpug]

1800collect, how am I at fault as a consumer? Because I believed VW's claims? I beleived the proven track record that these averaged 40MPG and had proven resale value? How is is the EPA at fault? Because they set the standards? Now if they changed the rules after, you might have a point. You are spouting Homer Simpson logic, "It takes two people to lie, one to lie and one to listen".

Yes Sh!t happens, but this was premeditated and stratigicly planned out to bypass standards and cheat. There is a huge difference than something just happening.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

1800collect, how am I at fault as a consumer? Because I believed VW's claims? I believed the proven track record that these averaged 40MPG and had proven resale value? .

I am-was-is guilty of drinking the vw cool aid

Bought my 6 weeks before the vd scandal spewed

 

[beyondwind]

VWAG still does business in the US with Porsche and Audi. They would have to dissolve all their US companies and assets. Then they would have to try and block criminal charges that would probably come their way from that. Also, how would they be able to fulfill warranty claims on non TDI models, etc.. They might be able to hide behind German sovereignty, but that's a PR nightmare for their global image.

How do I know VWAG created the cheat and not VWOA? Because they ADMITTED that the cheat was in all cars sold WORLDWIDE. They have said it only breaks U.S. laws but they're still fixing cars in the the E.U. and India is suing them, etc.

I hate VW as much as you do, however bankruptcy can indeed be an option. If Wallimart sold some lead painted toy, the toy manufacture in China can be relative insulated from the lawsuit, as well as the Salli's club.
Of course the whole process won't be easy, and that's what VW hired a law firm for. PR nightmare will never be an issue for VW, do you think they really care given what VW have done?

 

[TCBinaflash]

I took my car to the dealer for a warranty repair in December 2014, the oxygen sensor needed to be replaced. They flashed the ECU at the same time, and my fuel efficiency dropped big time, as did the acceleration from a dead stop.
With regards to my job situation I have several companies interested in my services and I won't be out of work for long. Thanks!

We are in the same boat but I just found a really good job with a former competitor. It's really different lifestyle change- but in a lot of ways much, much better.

My stress is almost completely gone- hope it goes as well for you.

 

[Wileykid]

Many of you think papa VAG is filthy rich and can pay your every demand. Fact is, VW US is a separate corporation and they can let it go bankrupt while preserving the assets of VAG. Look what happened in the Suzuki auto US bankruptcy- they severed that corporate shell and left the US car market while keeping their powersports business and the rest of world car business intact. VAG can do the same, if they're clever they can even have VW US do a Chapter 11 and survive while losing the non compliant TDI liabilities.

If you look at the DOJ complaint, it includes the mothership, not just VW US. No way VW will avoid anything by what you suggest. This is one of the reasons they have set aside the billions of dollars and have secured loans for more if necessary. To add, I am not sure how VAG could get around this as the mothership designed and installed the cheat that was subsequently sold by US VW.

No matter how this plays out, no way VW will go bankrupt. How many cars VW sells in the future is a big question.

Mark

 

[I800C0LLECT]

1800collect, how am I at fault as a consumer? Because I believed VW's claims? I beleived the proven track record that these averaged 40MPG and had proven resale value? How is is the EPA at fault? Because they set the standards? Now if they changed the rules after, you might have a point. You are spouting Homer Simpson logic, "It takes two people to lie, one to lie and one to listen".

Yes Sh!t happens, but this was premeditated and stratigicly planned out to bypass standards and cheat. There is a huge difference than something just happening.

Woah... You're all over the place. Where did I say the emissions is your fault? Purposefully confusing words doesn't invalidate what I've said. Cheating the epa doesn't entitle you

 

[MichVW]

[QUOTE=I800C0LLECT;5015566]4) They are attempting to be responsible consumers without hopes and wishes for self serving "reciprocity".

Why do you have to presume there's selfish motivation behind anybody who isn't hoping the EPA takes them to the cleaners? At some point our culture has taken a turn for the worst and many believe we should make millions over spilt coffee. I'm not one of them. I absolutely believe in culpability. The constant victimizing for personal gain has gotten completely out of control.

...To the point that every day Americans are more concerned about legalese than doing what's right. Dishonesty is rampant. It's why insurance rates and everything under the sun is out of control. You can't even attempt to do what's right these days without fear of reprisal for owning up to your actions.

The law isn't about right vs wrong. That's why we must be careful about interpretation and spirit of the law vs. letter of the law. The people who want to extort VW over this are just as wrong as the decision makers who helped create the problem.[/QUOTE]


Extort - "obtain (something) by force, threats, or other unfair means."

I guess maybe your statement above (boldface) sailed right over my head. What is it that we want to "extort" from VW? How are we (the extortionists) "just as wrong as the decision makers that helped create the problem"?

No one is inserting words into your arguments.... as Philpug mentioned.. How is the consumer at fault here? You never answered.

"Cheating the EPA doesn't entitle you." What? The only party cheating the EPA here is VW.

 

[LogicBomb]

1. VW already produced a solution but CARB/EPA shot it down and didn't allow VW to publicize the fix.

2. Even if VW obeys the court order, CARB/EPA won't allow them to disclose the fix.

Maybe the judge should also order CARB/EPA to allow VW to publicize the fix(es) and to cease and desist with the gag orders?

From the CARB letter stating why they rejected it, I can't really label that a genuine solution to fix the problem. It sounded like another half cocked attempt to belay the entire process some more, just like the previous "solution".

 

[roostre]

Article from NY Times titled: VW’s Crisis Strategy: Forward, Reverse, U-Turn

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/b...sis-strategy-forward-reverse-u-turn.html?_r=0

VW also hired Jones Day, a law firm, to conduct an internal investigation, though the firm’s own website said it helps clients determine “whether and how to voluntarily disclose criminal conduct to the government,” suggesting disclosing criminal conduct is not a foregone conclusion. The top executive at VW’s Porsche division has already said he is hoping to reinstate Wolfgang Hatz, the suspended engineering chief who is seen as a central figure in the scandal.

 

[Jeta Life]

I am-was-is guilty of drinking the vw cool aid

Bought my 6 weeks before the vd scandal spewed

It's not the end of the world. I bet the flavor of kool aid you drank was AdBlue Raspberry !

 

[Torque17]

Cheating EPA has Impact on me as well

Woah... You're all over the place. Where did I say the emissions is your fault? Purposefully confusing words doesn't invalidate what I've said. Cheating the epa doesn't entitle you

Cheating EPA has impact me/individual. My wife chose this car since it boasted clean diesel and high mpg. Now that particular quality is tarnished. Cheating EPA has left a bad feel about the car. And that matters to a lot of people. Whether small or big, there is impact on air quality. Now its always in the back of the head that this car pollutes more. Car is still drive-able but is besides the point.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

It's not the end of the world. I bet the flavor of kool aid you drank was AdBlue Raspberry !

Hi, buddy


Yep ... it was dark in color .. sweet .. a little tart-ish .. maybe addictive.

Probably the standard vd kool aid

 

[JohnQ]

So has anyone been in a total loss accident? Theft? Flood? Etc...

 

[kjclow]

For those wondering what VW and EPA must be discussing... it is based on these three documents:



The USA government suit against VW
(last page before the signature page at the end has the four categories of violation the EPA is requesting to be accessed, with the violation references)

Starts on page 27. Adding all the sections up, comes up to about $116,000 per vehicle. That assumes that the fines are additive across the four sections. That's damn close to $8 billion. OUCH! One has to wonder what VW is proposing to reduce and/or combine those fines.

 

[pkhoury]

I am not an environmentalist.

That makes two of us who aren't.

VW had the audacity to market "clean diesel" with a giant "clean diesel" advertising campaign that ran for years...

...my 2014 Jetta Sportwagen sales brochure states the following:


Page 11.
"2.0L Clean Diesel engine. Engineered with the idea that less is more. The Jetta SportWagen TDI has lower CO2 emissions compared to 90% of other vehicles. So Every getaway you make will be a cleaner one"
...

I don't suppose CO2 emissions were actually lower, but NOx was higher in actuality? Or was it determined that CO2 was also higher than stated as well?

 

[Jeta Life]

Hi, buddy


Yep ... it was dark in color .. sweet .. a little tart-ish .. maybe addictive.

Probably the standard vd kool aid

not sure what vd is, hope it's not what I think, I gave up the stuff, I'm finally sober

and for those that want to read I found this whole write-up on the Volkswagen Emissions Scandal:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

 

[gcodori]

Cheating EPA has impact me/individual. My wife chose this car since it boasted clean diesel and high mpg. Now that particular quality is tarnished. Cheating EPA has left a bad feel about the car. And that matters to a lot of people. Whether small or big, there is impact on air quality. Now its always in the back of the head that this car pollutes more. Car is still drive-able but is besides the point.

How much compensation should people get for "hurt feelings"?

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Cheating EPA has impact me/individual. My wife chose this car since it boasted clean diesel and high mpg. Now that particular quality is tarnished. Cheating EPA has left a bad feel about the car. And that matters to a lot of people. Whether small or big, there is impact on air quality. Now its always in the back of the head that this car pollutes more. Car is still drive-able but is besides the point.

100% agreed with you on all points


Different buyers have different reasons to have paid good money for the diesel.


Resale, Torque, MPG was at the top of my list (Plus I negotiated a good discount off of MRSP)


I respect your feelings about clean air. You were taken for a deep hair cut on all points

 

[romad]

From the CARB letter stating why they rejected it, I can't really label that a genuine solution to fix the problem. It sounded like another half cocked attempt to belay the entire process some more, just like the previous "solution".

Except we DON'T KNOW what the proposed fix since CARB won't let VW say. Sounds like a district attorney's release, with the defending lawyers barred from telling their side.

 

[kitarkus]

Cheating EPA has impact me/individual. My wife chose this car since it boasted clean diesel and high mpg. Now that particular quality is tarnished. Cheating EPA has left a bad feel about the car. And that matters to a lot of people. Whether small or big, there is impact on air quality. Now its always in the back of the head that this car pollutes more. Car is still drive-able but is besides the point.

It is called stigmatization. There have been lawsuits filed against property sellers whose property had a known negative stigma. Even rumors of houses being haunted...then sold to an unknowing buyer...have prompted lawsuits. It doesn't matter whether ghosts actually exist....it matters that the buying public is adversely influenced by a stigma which was not disclosed.

TDI's (and diesels in general) have definitely been stigmatized adversely. The adverse market reaction to TDI's is clear/obvious and directly caused by VW's fraud. I'm glad so many feel unharmed...just keep driving.

Also...today posters suggest that 'you should always keep your car till it has been paid off' or you'll be upside down etc. Bologna! I typically do keep cars for a long time, however, I can do whatever the heck I wish to do with my property. If I wish to buy a new car and it costs MY money to do so...I am free to do as I wish. If I choose to be upside down that is MY decision. You may think it stupid....great...no problem...don't sell YOUR car. People are rightfully complaining that they CANNOT sell their car or TRADE their car to a dealer because of dieselgate....VW's fraud is preventing them from financial options which are typically available to them....through no fault of their own. Your financial decisions are YOUR concern....and leave other people's financial decisions to THEM. I see the financials on a LOT of my neighbors due to my business....MOST cannot hardly afford their Porsche's, Tesla's, and Escalades....but THEY decided to buy them anyway. I don't think they are smart.....but they can do whatever they please with THEIR money and THEIR credit. You may drive your car for the 11 year average....but this means that 50% of people keep their cars for fewer years. If you wish to tell people how to live....you should become a pastor.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

How much compensation should people get for "hurt feelings"?

I can not speak for torque17 Maybe he was concerned about financial losses, and only added his emotional thoughts.