Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

Status
Not open for further replies.

kitarkus

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Location
Kansas City USA
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
<snip> The idea of the consumer/customer forcing VW into anything with "our"greed is laughable.<snip>
You got this right! I'm getting tired of hearing that TDI customers are potentially at fault should VW employees lose jobs or hurt the brand. Gimme a break!
 

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
I think I might have found the replacement for my "bought back" GSW (or incented trade) ... the 2017 Golf Alltrack .. looks impressive!!
http://www.vwmodels.ca/alltrack/?ut..._email&utm_campaign=crm_winternewsletter_2016
Now if it just came with the TDI.
Cheers
The AllTrack is about the only thing that could keep me with VW, but they'd have to give a very very very good trade in and incentive to make that happen. It wouldn't completely fit our needs (space is a requirement), but if we could get in to one for a low cost? Would have to seriously consider it.

Our local dealer has been nothing but great to us and they only reason we'd get another VW is to support them, not VW.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
+1

The only reason that imo VW hasn't already announced a buy back....is because it doesn't really help VW to do so. The cost of buy back is not the issue. VW is more concerned about criminal charges, punitive damages, investor lawsuits, and EPA/CARB fines.

The billions to buy back our cars is chump change when compared to the looming adverse financial and criminal possibilities facing VW.

The only saving grace is that the German Government doesn't want a black eye...and is likely to encourage VW to engage in an effort to resolve. I'm uncertain whether the German Govt. even has enough pull with VW given the obstacles.
Yup. There's really no incentive for them to rush. I have to assume that they've already conducted a survey and/or analysis and decided that: 1. The vast majority of their "loyal" customers are going to forgive them, and 2. The vast majority of the U.S. public will forget about this within six months of VW deciding to resolve the situation.

Every day that passes...there are fewer CR TDI's left on the road via trade-ins to VW dealers and accidents/total losses. Every TDI that leaves the road is $10,000+ that they can pocket, instead of giving to a vehicle owner. So yeah...there's just no incentive for them to do anything about it until they absolutely have to (for a reasonable person or persons...that would have been back in 2014).
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
The tailpipe chasing lawyers could very well force VW USA into bankruptcy... VW doesn't have a whole lot of assets in the U.S. and VW sales here aren't real profitable, if at all. Look at what Suzuki did- They got out of the losing US car biz via bankruptcy, while keeping their more profitable markets like powersports and cars for the rest of the world beyond the reaches of creditors in separate corporations.

The only substantial asset VW has here is the Chattanooga plant, and if they stopped construction and payments to contractors in the middle of the expansion they'd create contractor's liens probably at least equal to the liquidation value of the plant. That would leave EPA, CARB, the tailpipe chasing lawyers, and their opportunistic clients with next to nothing.

That's something to think about before you sign on with an attorney in hopes of getting a refund at MSRP and other "damages"... Your greed may force VW to such "scorched earth" strategies. You may be left with an orphan VW looking for parts and service, which the booming Audi dealer won't take in trade even if you pay them.
True ~~ maybe ~~ I'm in a CAS ~~ but have zippo power over my sharks. One can only hope those law guys don't cut their own pockets, has well as the TDI owners

As an owner of a 2015 Golf with almost no mileage ~~~ what ever the future holds, I admit that I might like to see the possibilities that VW will run home to mother Germany.

Bankruptcy could-might-can-should follow vw back home.

VW is not just dealing with the Chattanooga plant asset. ~~ one possible liability is the DEALER obligations and current inventories ~~ and any other contractual situations ~~ i. e. BANKS ~~ LOANS ~~ REAL ESTATE ~~ etc., etc.

IMHO it would take a grand pair to write off the USA via Bankruptcy:rolleyes:
 

LogicBomb

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Location
SoCal
TDI
2014 Passat
You got this right! I'm getting tired of hearing that TDI customers are potentially at fault should VW employees lose jobs or hurt the brand. Gimme a break!


VW made their bed in this regards. I understand the EPA's emission requirement is extremely low and probably "ridiculous", but VW knew the requirement and it's not like the EPA tried to implement a lower standard mid model cycle and expected a retrofit.

Accountability has gone to hell in this country.
 

TDILeo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Location
Portland OR
TDI
CW 2011 Golf TDI 6M Repurchased By VW 1/30/17 1985 VW GTI
The AllTrack is about the only thing that could keep me with VW, but they'd have to give a very very very good trade in and incentive to make that happen. It wouldn't completely fit our needs (space is a requirement), but if we could get in to one for a low cost? Would have to seriously consider it.
Our local dealer has been nothing but great to us and they only reason we'd get another VW is to support them, not VW.
Would this be available in the US?
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
True ~~ maybe ~~ I'm in a CAS ~~ but have zippo power over my sharks. One can only hope those law guys don't cut their own pockets, has well as the TDI owners

As an owner of a 2015 Golf with almost no mileage ~~~ what ever the future holds, I admit that I might like to see the possibilities that VW will run home to mother Germany.

Bankruptcy could-might-can-should follow vw back home.

VW is not just dealing with the Chattanooga plant asset. ~~ one possible liability is the DEALER obligations and current inventories ~~ and any other contractual situations ~~ i. e. BANKS ~~ LOANS ~~ REAL ESTATE ~~ etc., etc.

IMHO it would take a grand pair to write off the USA via Bankruptcy:rolleyes:
Going through bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean leaving the USA. Looking at the GM model, you create a new company, old company goes bankrupt, new one buys the assets of the old one, leaving behind all the CAS, and anything else they wanted to jettison, but needed some way to offload it cheaply.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Scary thought....really scary. It is not a complete absurdity to speculate about a VAG US bankruptcy.

I'm not suggesting that it is the TDI's consumer's responsibility to lay-off pursuing a claim against VW to 'save' the company from a potential bankruptcy. Nor do I think that all TDI consumers are expecting "full MSRP and other damages". I do think that VW's inaction and lack of transparency has driven scared consumers to file lawsuits. I also believe that TDI consumers, particularly late model low mileage owners, will show that they have been 'harmed' by VW...'harmed' in the legal sense. All of this aside from the emissions/environmental implications and issues which comprise the lion's share of the claim from the DOJ lawsuit. Scary indeed.


^^^

Agreed

to wit

Bought July 15, 2015 ~~ My 2015 Golf (S) DSG with (about) 1,755 miles on the clock now

Owned it 6 weeks before the scandal hit the fan.

Best hope for me personally, is a settlement that will cover the actual loss in resale ~~ and the settlement WILL let VW continue on operating here in USA.

In my opinion a settlement of ~~ $3,000 would cover it. As I paid $2,950 for TDI vs a similar gasser
 

JohnNS

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
+1

The only reason that imo VW hasn't already announced a buy back....is because it doesn't really help VW to do so. The cost of buy back is not the issue. VW is more concerned about criminal charges, punitive damages, investor lawsuits, and EPA/CARB fines.

The billions to buy back our cars is chump change when compared to the looming adverse financial and criminal possibilities facing VW.

The only saving grace is that the German Government doesn't want a black eye...and is likely to encourage VW to engage in an effort to resolve. I'm uncertain whether the German Govt. even has enough pull with VW given the obstacles.
I think they haven't announced it because negotiating the fines and charges are still ongoing (and waiting for news on the 3L proposal).

A buyback would benefit them GREATLY if it reduces the fines and lawsuits to less than they'd pay for buying back.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Scary thought....really scary. It is not a complete absurdity to speculate about a VAG US bankruptcy.

I'm not suggesting that it is the TDI's consumer's responsibility to lay-off pursuing a claim against VW to 'save' the company from a potential bankruptcy. Nor do I think that all TDI consumers are expecting "full MSRP and other damages". I do think that VW's inaction and lack of transparency has driven scared consumers to file lawsuits. I also believe that TDI consumers, particularly late model low mileage owners, will show that they have been 'harmed' by VW...'harmed' in the legal sense. All of this aside from the emissions/environmental implications and issues which comprise the lion's share of the claim from the DOJ lawsuit. Scary indeed.
What is a VAG?


Thanks
 

WolfsburgGolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
MK VI Golf TDI
And if its limited liability corporation it would say GmbH which stands for Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung which translates into "company with limited liability"
 

Jeta Life

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
NJ & North Pocono
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI DSG Auto
We do know a VW guru. Tibor in Westfield, NJ. But my wife just called them last week about doing the intake manifold fix, and they told her that they no longer work on diesels! It's on my todo list to call him today and find out if they can still do the repair, since I'm hoping there's no difference on that repair between gas/diesel engines. I'll also try to clarify what their position is on diesels since this seems odd. He fixed our cracked fuel pump a few years ago . . .
Wow it is a small world Tibor Sebestyen 'Volkwagen repair center" was the guru I was going to give you. My next door neighbor who has a gasser uses them, but when I just called them a few hours ago a mechanic there just said what you heard: they no longer work on diesels because they are too expensive and complicated. I did not speak to Tibor, maybe give him a shot.
The other guy is named Roman and goes by "GotEuroCorrado" on this forum if you do a search. He's from PA near Philly. No idea about him, but with this TDI I may need him in future, nightmare repairs for me too you're not alone. All dealer maintained for the most part.
Good luck, the way things have gone for me I'm hoping for a buyback but after all the PM I threw into it, it's crazy just crazy, I just don't know. I'm from the Plainfield area and have only used Shrewsbury where I purchased & Reydel Edison dealers near where I live. Let me know if you find any guru, thanks.
 

dgoodhue

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Location
Framingham, MA
TDI
'14 6MT JSW
Makes me wonder if those of us who purchased cars after April 2014, I bought mine in late June 2014, will be treated any differently. They knew the cheat was there, we all get that, but in April they knew that the cat's paw was out of the bag, and the rest would eventually make it out, yet they still continued to sell cars they knew would be identified as cheaters.
IIRC My wife first test drove a TDI at the end of April 2014. I think that was also the last month of the extra incentives for TDI's.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Class action suits tend to follow the "law of unintended consequences"... As I found a couple decades ago. Had a new paratransit provider get the contract to run our local system, and they totally blew it- Buses dispatched to the wrong end of town, riders left waiting for hours, etc.. My involvement was as a volunteer consultant to several state legislators investigating the debacle and I had a card to ride the system, as I am mobility impaired and got certified to use the service just in case my Golf diesel broke down. A small group of riders sued, represented by some local trial lawyers who pretty much provided their services pro bono. The case ultimately settled out of court, and I and every other certified rider received $500 worth of free ride vouchers in damages! Lotta good that did me, the only claim I'd put in was for reimbursement for the cost of giving my mobility impaired friends rides the service couldn't provide. Two decades later I still haven't ridden the paratransit service, and I gave the free ride vouchers to my friends who had more use for them.

So several years from now, long after you dumped your TDI at a big loss and went deep into debt for a different brand of new car, you may get a coupon for a couple thousand off on new Audi or Porsche in the mail...
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Most Americans think it means Volkswagen Auto Group, but in reality it means Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft.
Aktiengesellschaft means it is a publicly traded stock company.

Have Fun!

Don
What JSWTDI09 said.

It's often abbreviated as Volkswagen AG or VAG.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Class action suits

<snip>

So several years from now, long after you dumped your TDI at a big loss and went deep into debt for a different brand of new car, you may get a coupon for a couple thousand off on new Audi or Porsche in the mail...
My car is new-ish and do not ~~ (hope not) to need a new car. This one was planned to be my last car:mad:

In my CAS ~~~ maybe I can get a little to soften the blow
 

jhawklver

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Location
Kansas City
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI
This machine - after a few years of profitable service - you decide to sell it.
You offer to sell it for the same price as new. Buyer states "well, it's used."
You rebut "But it's an ASSET!"
The seller states "The new one will produce the same item, but it's well, newer. Maybe I can buy your older machine for a lower price."
You state "where have I heard this before..."
That's a very stupid stretch. No one expects to sell it on the open market for new.

If we're truly using this to be an apt comparison... the machine would have to have been built by its company to knowingly show as compliant to regulators (pick a workplace one) if there was a test/audit and in actuality be non-compliant by a large degree at all other times. Then the machine would have to be sold as extra compliant/safe and other various features at a premium due to this extra compliant nature. Now it has come to light the company's deception and fraud have lowered the value of the machine.

Now, the company is stuck with a machine that will likely need to be brought up to code - and in doing so will impact many of the very selling points that were a key factors in the purchase of the machine.

If the company wants to sell the machine, they'll get much less than they paid because it is a well-known issue in the industry.

In this example, the fraudulent company who sold the machine would likely get sued if the machine was expensive enough, or it would make good with the company if it valued the company's business enough to want it down the line.

No one expects a used car to garner a new car price in a normal situation. This isn't a normal situation so posts like above are just being obstinate.
 

Pseudonym

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium
Yup. There's really no incentive for them to rush. I have to assume that they've already conducted a survey and/or analysis and decided that: 1. The vast majority of their "loyal" customers are going to forgive them, and 2. The vast majority of the U.S. public will forget about this within six months of VW deciding to resolve the situation.

Every day that passes...there are fewer CR TDI's left on the road via trade-ins to VW dealers and accidents/total losses. Every TDI that leaves the road is $10,000+ that they can pocket, instead of giving to a vehicle owner. So yeah...there's just no incentive for them to do anything about it until they absolutely have to (for a reasonable person or persons...that would have been back in 2014).
No, that isn't the way the law works. Anybody who sold/totaled/lost/etc a TDI after the announcement date has a claim, just as does anybody who still owns one. You might say as this has dragged on we are more damaged than somebody who sold their car October 1, but I don't think that will be a huge hurdle to overcome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top