IFRCFI
Veteran Member
So, your solution is.....? Right...that's what I thought.....
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Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations
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So, your solution is.....? Right...that's what I thought.....
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kitarkus
Veteran Member
Get your popcorn ready... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/class-action-suit-filed-against-vw-in-us-court-2016-02-24 .... and http://www.pnj.com/story/news/local...eys-file-vw-emissions-fraud-lawsuit/80756354/
Makes me shudder a bit....with the breadth of lawsuits flying at VW from all corners of the earth....both civil and criminal....both actual losses and punitive.
Makes me shudder a bit....with the breadth of lawsuits flying at VW from all corners of the earth....both civil and criminal....both actual losses and punitive.
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Rico567
Top Post Dawg
And just like here, I suspect, the deeper the pockets, the more buzzards to the carcass.
When all this started, I discounted the suggestions made by some that this would end in bankruptcy for VW. Now, I'm not so sure....and if that happens, owners are going to be sucking hindmost tit.
IFRCFI
Veteran Member
You and I agree on this. Not an easy task, unfortunately.
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JCTDI
Veteran Member
Speaking of lawsuits. I just got a new letter offering free legal representation against VW. One of the stated goals was to put me into a new car. The letter had many details about how they would approach the case. It also stated in bold type this would not be part of a class-action lawsuit. They smell blood. I am keeping it on file, until I hear VWs offer. Then I will decide.
I wish I could just keep driving and not worry. But I can't. This car is having problems every month now. It's in the shop now for a new turbo. And I have to also get the intake manifold replaced. But I'm waiting to hear from VWofA on whether they will help with that.
I wish I could just keep driving and not worry. But I can't. This car is having problems every month now. It's in the shop now for a new turbo. And I have to also get the intake manifold replaced. But I'm waiting to hear from VWofA on whether they will help with that.
kitarkus
Veteran Member
Yup...that was exactly what caused me to shudder. Like I said yesterday...VW lawyers had better be damn good....and hopefully not blowing sunshine at VW. By all indications VW has been caught dead to rights. We are going to find out just how stubborn they are.
2015vwgolfdiesel
Top Post Dawg
VW is dead to rights ~~ DEAD WRONG
My dog in the fight is resale value.
But if VW (the corp) goes "DOWN the ROAD MOTORS"
Then, all us owners get a double load in our face
My dog in the fight is resale value.
But if VW (the corp) goes "DOWN the ROAD MOTORS"
Then, all us owners get a double load in our face
kitarkus
Veteran Member
Hmmm. I'd be very weary of any letter purporting "free legal representation". That said, I am certain that you are intelligent enough to navigate your own legal options.
I'm sure sorry about your turbo and manifold issues. I'm afraid that Murphy's law is at play.
Those two brands are obviously keepers for VW. Not so sure about others like Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, Ducati...
Similar to '08 when we bailed out GM, the German govt potentially can step in to help - but they will certainly have a ton of stipulations, one of which will probably be to "go lean"
No, it certainly is not.
Leading by example is fine - allowing the rest of the world to ignore it is not.
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Gonehuckin
Active member
Can a lawyer chime in, why does VW get to have this be a class action where they only have to respond to one lawsuit? I'm part of the class but I have no say in how the lawsuit progresses and it seems to me that the pressure would be on them to settle if they had 100k lawsuits pending.
Also, this is what is wrong with our system. They clearly violated the law, they've admitted such and yet in order to get them to pay damages/fix the issue, we have to invest heavily in lawyers and they get to choose the timeline as they see fit.
(I'm just pissed because I planned on replacing my falling apart 2010 jsw at the end of the year and now I'm dropping $1500 a month for the last four months to keep it running with a timing belt, new brakes, an exhaust leak and water leaking in through the sunroof still to fix).
Also, this is what is wrong with our system. They clearly violated the law, they've admitted such and yet in order to get them to pay damages/fix the issue, we have to invest heavily in lawyers and they get to choose the timeline as they see fit.
(I'm just pissed because I planned on replacing my falling apart 2010 jsw at the end of the year and now I'm dropping $1500 a month for the last four months to keep it running with a timing belt, new brakes, an exhaust leak and water leaking in through the sunroof still to fix).
Jeta Life
Veteran Member
Been there done that, dealers are crazy expensive, maybe best bet is to find a guru if it's not too late. I'm not even going to worry what my next problem is going to be so in preparation for that I have made a promise to myself never to go to those guys again, I like em but I got a family too, can't keep supporting their dealer on a car that's been like my home, a money pit. Worse things in life though, what can you do.
The 2 VW guru mechanics I have names and numbers to are recommended by a neighbor and somebody from PA on this forum, I have been to neither yet, but have the numbers if needed. Like we used to say in Brooklyn, fuhgettabout da dealers. They're good but just too darned expensive.
Hyperbole?
romad
Top Post Dawg
Remembering that NOx (the pollutant of Dieselgate) helps form ozone, we now have one pollutant (CFC) destroying a second pollutant (ozone) that was formed by/from a third pollutant (NOx).
JCTDI
Veteran Member
We do know a VW guru. Tibor in Westfield, NJ. But my wife just called them last week about doing the intake manifold fix, and they told her that they no longer work on diesels! It's on my todo list to call him today and find out if they can still do the repair, since I'm hoping there's no difference on that repair between gas/diesel engines. I'll also try to clarify what their position is on diesels since this seems odd. He fixed our cracked fuel pump a few years ago . . .
JDenyer232
Veteran Member
Not quite how that works. By the way I know your joking. I like the logic though, bring back the CFC's and we can put dieselgate behind usRemembering that NOx (the pollutant of Dieselgate) helps form ozone, we now have one pollutant (CFC) destroying a second pollutant (ozone) that was formed by/from a third pollutant (NOx).
I used to work in refrigeration and CFC's were the best refrigerants available. We had 3 main refrigerants for the majority of applications, now there are dozens depending on what you are trying to accomplish. I got out of it just for this reason, the regulations just made it too expensive.gearheadgrrrl
Veteran Member
- Joined
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- '15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
The tailpipe chasing lawyers could very well force VW USA into bankruptcy... VW doesn't have a whole lot of assets in the U.S. and VW sales here aren't real profitable, if at all. Look at what Suzuki did- They got out of the losing US car biz via bankruptcy, while keeping their more profitable markets like powersports and cars for the rest of the world beyond the reaches of creditors in separate corporations.
The only substantial asset VW has here is the Chattanooga plant, and if they stopped construction and payments to contractors in the middle of the expansion they'd create contractor's liens probably at least equal to the liquidation value of the plant. That would leave EPA, CARB, the tailpipe chasing lawyers, and their opportunistic clients with next to nothing.
That's something to think about before you sign on with an attorney in hopes of getting a refund at MSRP and other "damages"... Your greed may force VW to such "scorched earth" strategies. You may be left with an orphan VW looking for parts and service, which the booming Audi dealer won't take in trade even if you pay them.
The only substantial asset VW has here is the Chattanooga plant, and if they stopped construction and payments to contractors in the middle of the expansion they'd create contractor's liens probably at least equal to the liquidation value of the plant. That would leave EPA, CARB, the tailpipe chasing lawyers, and their opportunistic clients with next to nothing.
That's something to think about before you sign on with an attorney in hopes of getting a refund at MSRP and other "damages"... Your greed may force VW to such "scorched earth" strategies. You may be left with an orphan VW looking for parts and service, which the booming Audi dealer won't take in trade even if you pay them.
dgoodhue
Veteran Member
The longer this takes for VW to resolve this issue, the more impatient owners are getting and more likely they are going to join a class action lawsuit.
One would have thought since VW had about 1 1/2 year prior to the September 2015 Dieselgate announcement they would have start coming up with solutions. It seems like they did not start internally start planning for this prior to the September announcement.
kitarkus
Veteran Member
No...I'm serious. I think VW is behaving badly despite very serious potential for lawsuits which could result in significant punitive damages and criminal charges. All of this aside from enormous EPA/CARB fines/penalties. I am not uber familiar with German business practices, however, I'd think that VW's counsel needs to relay the seriousness of the hole that they are in.
IFRCFI
Veteran Member
The window dressing, placebo PR hiring of Feinberg by VW will quickly wear off in the minds of impacted parties.
Latest "leak" says expect nothing until end of March or after. VW has to be getting increasingly desperate due to financial pressure. My bet is they will be willing to give EPA/CARB/DOJ anything to reduce the liability. Anything.
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kitarkus
Veteran Member
Last week there was a NY Times story which implied that internal memos had been found which indicated that VW had meetings in April 2014. These meetings were supposedly discussing "strategies the company could use in response" to regulators who could find out about the emissions issue. Don't take my word for it... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/b...emissions-problem-was-known-earlier.html?_r=0 and read towards the bottom of the article for this precise quote.
So to my previous point about VW's bad behavior....displaying arrogance and brazen disregard in the face of countless civil suits, potential punitive damages, potential criminal charges, and VERY large EPA/CARB fines. In light of all of this....VW had meetings on how to respond when found out?!?!....rather than how to just fix the problem. I think our answer lies somewhere in this scenario....there is no fix!
TDILeo
Veteran Member
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- CW 2011 Golf TDI 6M Repurchased By VW 1/30/17 1985 VW GTI
I've said this before, if VW were transparent and upfront with their customer base FIRST, as in right out of the gate, they could mitigate much of their self-inflicted pain. Fines and penalties will be imposed, to be sure, but putting the customer concerns first with openness will benefit them in the long game.
haunruh
Veteran Member
I think I might have found the replacement for my "bought back" GSW (or incented trade) ... the 2017 Golf Alltrack .. looks impressive!!
http://www.vwmodels.ca/alltrack/?ut..._email&utm_campaign=crm_winternewsletter_2016
Now if it just came with the TDI.
Cheers
kitarkus
Veteran Member
Scary thought....really scary. It is not a complete absurdity to speculate about a VAG US bankruptcy.
I'm not suggesting that it is the TDI's consumer's responsibility to lay-off pursuing a claim against VW to 'save' the company from a potential bankruptcy. Nor do I think that all TDI consumers are expecting "full MSRP and other damages". I do think that VW's inaction and lack of transparency has driven scared consumers to file lawsuits. I also believe that TDI consumers, particularly late model low mileage owners, will show that they have been 'harmed' by VW...'harmed' in the legal sense. All of this aside from the emissions/environmental implications and issues which comprise the lion's share of the claim from the DOJ lawsuit. Scary indeed.
Makes me wonder if those of us who purchased cars after April 2014, I bought mine in late June 2014, will be treated any differently. They knew the cheat was there, we all get that, but in April they knew that the cat's paw was out of the bag, and the rest would eventually make it out, yet they still continued to sell cars they knew would be identified as cheaters.
bubbagumpshrimp
Veteran Member
In the grand scheme of things...a few thousand cars (or a few hundred thousand) are the least of their concerns at this point. Once lawyers and prosecutors get spun up regarding VWs failure to report this issue to investors in a timely manner...they will really be in bad shape.
Edit:Couple to that the executives that I would bet my 401k balance on having conducted insider trading once they found out about this (though I would imagine knowledge of this went back to the beginning for some of them)...~$6B for scooping up a few cars will seem like chump change.
Sure...we want our cars address, but they've got bigger problems to deal with (i.e. Dodging jail time and payment of individual fines).
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It surely isn't a pretty big picture.
I saw the Florida lawsuit(s) mention the RICO statute, the implications of that are pretty insane. I understand it could be done simply for posturing, and have no real bearing, but in the court of public opinion that isn't good.
kitarkus
Veteran Member
+1
The only reason that imo VW hasn't already announced a buy back....is because it doesn't really help VW to do so. The cost of buy back is not the issue. VW is more concerned about criminal charges, punitive damages, investor lawsuits, and EPA/CARB fines.
The billions to buy back our cars is chump change when compared to the looming adverse financial and criminal possibilities facing VW.
The only saving grace is that the German Government doesn't want a black eye...and is likely to encourage VW to engage in an effort to resolve. I'm uncertain whether the German Govt. even has enough pull with VW given the obstacles.
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MichVW
Veteran Member
I highly doubt VW will go the bankruptcy route. The longer that VW drags their feet and offers no statements, potential solutions, expectations etc. the more lawsuits will pop up. VW has control over their own destiny. It appears they are making things much worse by maintaining radio silence. More customers are getting frustrated, more frustrated customers are seeking legal counsel, and more lawyers are chomping at the bit looking to fill their own pockets.
The idea of the consumer/customer forcing VW into anything with "our"greed is laughable. Realistically people just want something to hang their hat on... An official statement, a compensation plan....something that gives us the reassurance that VW is working on this and coming up with a solution. A time frame... an expectation.
We all received the goodwill package offer back in November, but since then, I think the company has made one official statement... almost two months ago... hmmmmm....
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