Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[Jeta Life]

Or maybe, they turn on the emission's sensors during a test to trigger a code for a defective sensor. Including running the Adblue Pump.
I'm calling BS on the EPA claims because of how these systems function. You have active and passive systems unlike a gasoline engine where all systems are active.
Passive systems include Low Pressure EGR, AdBlue injection etc where they will cycle based on certain engine output conditions.
It makes sense to activate everything during a systems check-out to determine if all passive systems are functioning correctly.
With that in mind, Im calling Bull**** to the EPA.
Note that they are focused on NOx output, meaning some Bureaucrat thinks that the AdBlue pump runs non-stop which is not the case! Somebody noted that the pump activated during the test and they are claiming its an emissions defeat.
The fact is the NOx sensors determine the activation of the system in normal running conditions and the catalyst after being dosed is effective for sometime after to insure conversion of NOx. And FWIW, the NOx sensors are always active to determine cycle times of the SCR systems.

Another great one from a smart VW fan in Idaho, we're all just couch potatoes, get those stupid popcorn posts out of this thread. Chips man chips, with beer.

 

[imurrx]

The only way forward I can see Volkswagen regaining the trust of us TDI owners going forward, regardless if stay with diesel or not, is the following.

1) Make the cars 100% compliant, not loose any performance or economy and extend the warranties. (so far that has failed)

2) If the cars are allowed to stay on the road, compensate the drivers for the cost and performance difference from what they were promised and what is ultimately delivered when the cars are made 100% compliant. Extent the warranties to cover all issues regards to emissions and performance. (it would need to be a fair and generous apology in money and not just a token $200 gift card to be spent back at VW)

3) A buy back if they are unsuccessful to deliver the car as promised under real world performance. It would be at least 100% of what people still owe plus 10% or prescandal fair retail price, or a fair depreciation starting from the purchase price plus 10%. All prices (with the exception of underwater loans and purchase price) should be based on a 3rd party who can give a fair value to both the consumer and VW.

Anything less of this will not rebuild the public trust, start to restore the Volkswagen reputation, and the long term objectives of their shareholders.

 

[Jetta15tdi]

11 million TDIs are effected world wide?! Hopefully vw does not become the next Saab

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-relates-to-11-million-cars-1442916906

 

[bhtooefr]

The goals aren't impossible, BMW met them.

 

[bhtooefr]

That WSJ article is paywalled, but it's not as firm as the AP article that everyone seems to be basing that on.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0f85.../vw-cooperating-german-investigation-vehicles

That one says that 11 million vehicles are affected.

Better yet, here's the VW press release: https://www.volkswagen-media-servic...ec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=Fn7WdzqZ

11 million EA189-powered vehicles worldwide do have the cheating firmware according to VW.

 

[Tom Servo]

The goals aren't impossible, BMW met them.

Right, with an emissions system that will basically self destruct in 40,000 miles.

Ars Technica has an ingesting article on what's next for VW:

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/09/vws-dirty-mission-wheres-the-beginning-and-wheres-the-end/

This story mentions that the testers used low sulphur diesel. Is that ignorance on the story author's part or did the WVU researchers use the wrong fuel?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[powerfool]

The goals aren't impossible, BMW met them.

BMW also doesn't get nearly the fuel economy out of their diesels.

 

[bhtooefr]

Ignorance on the author's part, the testers used ULSD purchased at a truck stop in Fontana, CA (JSW and Passat), Shells in Kettleman, CA, Redding, CA, Vancouver, WA, Olympia, WA, Medford, OR, and Gustine, CA (all in the Passat on a long distance trip), and the Quick Gas Valero in Ontario, CA (the X5).

And the BMW X5 shouldn't be compared on fuel consumption to the affected VW cars, it should be compared to the Touareg.

 

[Roishe Cheng]

Volkswagen Emissions Scandal Relates to 11 Million Cars
Company set to take $7.27 billion provision

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-relates-to-11-million-cars-1442916906

Volkswagen AG’s emissions crisis deepened on Tuesday when the company said that as many as 11 million vehicles world-wide could be affected by software allegedly used to cheat emissions tests and announced plans to take a €6.5 billion ($7.27 billion) provision that will force the company to downgrade its earnings outlook.
---

More articles are hitting the wires this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-car-scandal.html

 

[LRTDI]

When this is all said and done (and there seems to be no end to drivel like this (see HPFP thread for similarities), its the driveability and MPG that will determine whether the modified Tdis are worth the addititional purchase cost.

Same as it ever was.

Until we know, I'm going to be looking at a stick shift Tsi...

 

[cane929]

So, the article mention 11 Million EA 189 type engines, does that includes the new 2015 TDI's engines?

 

[bluedoggiant]

$7.3 billion. That's about $663 per car. This is starting to look worse.

 

[steadyhand]

Right, with an emissions system that will basically self destruct in 40,000 miles.

I have a BMW X-5 diesel and I sure hope the emissions system won't self destruct (I have 33k miles).

That said, my '05 Golf TDI is screaming strong at a tick under 300k (my daily)!!! Original, unmolested, and an automatic to boot.

 

[ndmike88]

No matter how all this shakes out I am done with VW. They lied to me and violated my trust.

 

[bhtooefr]

2015s are EA288. However, we know that EA288 engines in the US are affected, so VWAG isn't saying the whole story there by saying that "[a] noticeable deviation between bench test results and actual road use was established solely for this type of engine".

 

[raybo]

Instead of the 2010 JSW with it's HPFP disintegration and excessive smog-producing NO2 we should have bought a Prius...This thing could have killed someone when the HPFP blew up last December, now we find it's a smog machine.
"Look Ma, no soot from the exhaust! So clean!"

 

[touaregv10tdi]

New Huge VW TDi recall coming up???

Here is the article...
It could cost Volkswagen billions...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/ct-volkswagen-owners-0921-biz-20150921-story.html

 

[LRTDI]

Look for VW to push electric and gas hybrids. Tdi is dead.

 

[ziggy55]

11 million cars world wide, and now South Korea, and European versions of the EPA are investigating and looking into this. Stock plummet killing about $18 billion worth of the company. Along with a set aside of $8billion which will probably not be enough for 11 million cars world wide. Add in the potential class action lawsuits from consumers and potentially dealers. This is a big financial hit which will probably affect the future outcome for this company. Especially the loss of customer loyalty and trust. Local dealer is furious their TDI sales represented about 35% of their business.

 

[Borsig]

Volkswagen Emissions Scandal Relates to 11 Million Cars
Company set to take $7.27 billion provision

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-relates-to-11-million-cars-1442916906

Volkswagen AG’s emissions crisis deepened on Tuesday when the company said that as many as 11 million vehicles world-wide could be affected by software allegedly used to cheat emissions tests and announced plans to take a €6.5 billion ($7.27 billion) provision that will force the company to downgrade its earnings outlook.
---

More articles are hitting the wires this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-car-scandal.html

Is that right that its 7300 per car?

Does this include fines? I'd assume so. Thats not much when you include the potential fines.

 

[Aquaticmind]

Thank you... I think you are useless as well... Always somebody making it personal and insulting. Go away little person.

Sorry, I didn't mean to personal. And what if I am a dwarf?

 

[Timmins11]

$ 7.27 billion

Volkswagen will cut its earnings guidance as it sets aside about 6.5 billion euros ($7.27 billion) in the third quarter to cover costs related to the diesel emissions scandal in the United States and other markets.

So does it look like VW can fix the problem without a buyback (not able to meet federal standards)?

My quick calculation for a buyback: 500,000 cars x $10,000 per car = $5 billion, plus EPA fines. Plus costs for other markets, engineering and other costs.

 

[vwUMO]

Look for VW to push electric and gas hybrids. Tdi is dead.

Pure speculation, not fact.

 

[vwUMO]

Volkswagen will cut its earnings guidance as it sets aside about 6.5 billion euros ($7.27 billion) in the third quarter to cover costs related to the diesel emissions scandal in the United States and other markets.
So does it look like VW can fix the problem without a buyback (not able to meet federal standards)?
My quick calculation for a buyback: 500,000 cars x $10,000 per car = $5 billion, plus EPA fines. Plus costs for other markets, engineering and other costs.

We will 99% likely hear more Friday.

 

[Borsig]

Volkswagen will cut its earnings guidance as it sets aside about 6.5 billion euros ($7.27 billion) in the third quarter to cover costs related to the diesel emissions scandal in the United States and other markets.

So does it look like VW can fix the problem without a buyback (not able to meet federal standards)?

My quick calculation for a buyback: 500,000 cars x $10,000 per car = $5 billion, plus EPA fines. Plus costs for other markets, engineering and other costs.

This is world wide. Not for just the US.

It looks like the number is more like 6500-7000 per car, world wide.

No one is buying back your car.

 

[VodkanDiesel]

I'm not disappointed with Volkswagen as much as I'm disappointed with the EPA.


I can't believe they're going after TDIs, and completely ignoring all the giant gas guzzling pickups and SUVs on the road, that create way more CO2 and pollution every day than all of the TDIs combined do in a year.


If they actually cared about clean air, they would start with the biggest polluters first. They should be happy that I drive a TDI and not a giant redneck truck.

 

[Aquaticmind]

I say save your anger and bitterness for the despicable EPA and their minions! They've already over done the emissions requirements to where we're almost looking at 40 times (gasp!) zero. Nobody touches my TDI!

40 x 0 = 0. The tail pipe emission were clearly not zero, as that would have been compliance and this would not have become a new story.

 

[TarwheelTDI]

Right, with an emissions system that will basically self destruct in 40,000 miles.

Ars Technica has an ingesting article on what's next for VW:

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/09/vws-dirty-mission-wheres-the-beginning-and-wheres-the-end/

This story mentions that the testers used low sulphur diesel. Is that ignorance on the story author's part or did the WVU researchers use the wrong fuel?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Lost in all of this is the fact that the tests were done at WVU. I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger issue on this forum.

 

[dropnosky]

Maybe this has been explained in the thread already, but im confused as to why this isnt an easy fix? If the cars engine management program can pass the EPA standards, why cant that just be reflashed as the primary program with all the emissions systems working full time?

Figures the only time i buy a new car in my life is one week before a massive emissions scandal

 

[Aquaticmind]

I'm not disappointed with Volkswagen as much as I'm disappointed with the EPA.

You realize that VW cheated on the emission testing and I expect a government agency to hold a mulit-national corporation to their word. Yes a V8 engine makes more CO2 but probably less NOx and more importantly, if the V8 honestly pass the emission test then it is fine, it is the law that needs to change.

The EPA has been working with VW for over a year to fix the issue, don't blame the EPA for holding VW's feet to fire over for intentionally cheating. This is VW's screwup, not the EPA's. VW lied to it's customers and of course the EPA.