Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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Rico567

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Yeah...if that's true...that definitely crosses a line. If you read the whole article though, It's possible that during the course of a meeting...an official just threw out the question "is there any chance that you could make some of your electric vehicle in TN?" That's a VERY vague piece.

Reading that article was like watching one of the political debates. IF (and I capitalize) it has any basis in reality, it points to a direction in the negotiations that is very, very bad for owners of the affected vehicles.

NB: Again, I place little credence in this business.....
 

kevin_in_idaho

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Who cares what they want to do in the future (if there is one for VW). They need to fix the TDI issue before they do anything else.

BTW, where to think electricity comes from? The ether? A lot of it is "clean coal" :) Maybe that'll be VW's new logo/motto. This is politicians doing what they do; trying to make sure VW keeps their state employment numbers steady.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Oklahoma
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I bought my 2011 A3 TDI with 58K miles about 9 months ago for $15000
At that time, this was a steal because I remember KBB trade in value was about 15700. And I remember thinking that if I'm really dissatisfied with the car I would just bring it to Carmax and get my money back. Carmax pays out according to KBB Good Condition trade in value.

Adjusting for the 9 months that have passed, I'm now using 2012 A3 TDI data with 58K miles.

KBB Good condition trade in $12500

So it looks like these cars dropped $3000 in value so far.


These numbers that KBB is quoting are definitely reflecting on the street. I'm seeing A3 TDI's asking prices to be considerably less vs 9 months ago when I was looking around in my area


The scandal amounts to a reduction in resale value.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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Reading that article was like watching one of the political debates. IF (and I capitalize) it has any basis in reality, it points to a direction in the negotiations that is very, very bad for owners of the affected vehicles.
NB: Again, I place little credence in this business.....
I doubt that VW customers, employees, dealers, investors, etc. rank too high in the EPA's priority list. Pushing environmental agendas, such as saving baby seals and pushing EVs are likely at the top.

That being said...I doubt very much that any of those things (customers, employees, dealers, and investors) are ranked too highly for VW either.
 

MichVW

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Who cares what they want to do in the future (if there is one for VW). They need to fix the TDI issue before they do anything else.
BTW, where to think electricity comes from? The ether? A lot of it is "clean coal" :) Maybe that'll be VW's new logo/motto. This is politicians doing what they do; trying to make sure VW keeps their state employment numbers steady.

The point being....this could be an indication of what's to come. Others have speculated that part of vw's punishment may be more electric vehicles as well as installation of charging stations. Actually, I think someone mentioned that almost verbatim about 100 pages back.

Not a bad thing... as long as the current tdi owners are taken care of.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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The point being....this could be an indication of what's to come. Others have speculated that part of vw's punishment may be more electric vehicles as well as installation of charging stations. Actually, I think someone mentioned that almost verbatim about 100 pages back.

Not a bad thing... as long as the current tdi owners are taken care of.

Keeping in mind ~~ the more $$$$s that are pointed to other issues are $$$$s that are directed away from current owners:rolleyes:
 

Jeta Life

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The point being....this could be an indication of what's to come. Others have speculated that part of vw's punishment may be more electric vehicles as well as installation of charging stations. Actually, I think someone mentioned that almost verbatim about 100 pages back.

Not a bad thing... as long as the current tdi owners are taken care of.
Good point, VWs got the technology to go from diesel to electric with a few snaps of Muller's fingers. California will be happy at that, they love their Porsches and can even get electric ones, VWs not a slacker. They work hard.
 

IFRCFI

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Others have speculated that part of vw's punishment may be more electric vehicles as well as installation of charging stations. Actually, I think someone mentioned that almost verbatim about 100 pages back.

Yep. I was scoffed at for suggesting this. The EPA / CARB isn't going to pass up an opportunity to stick a fork in the most successful and growing passenger diesel program in the US.

Dropping diesel and pushing electric is going to be too financially attractive to pass up, with EPA / CARB holding billions of dollars over VWs head in fines, buy backs, and refits until they relent to killing off TDI. It's coming. There is a precedent for it.

Say it with me.....LEVERAGE....


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IFRCFI

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That being said...I doubt very much that any of those things (customers, employees, dealers, and investors) are ranked too highly for VW either.

Actually, investors are ranked high in a public company. In fact, significantly higher than customers. Economics 101.

If there is an opportunity to save significant $$, investors will trump customers every time. Remember, the US market is relatively small for VW. A VW gas customer is generally different than a VW diesel customer. And...consumer memory is generally very short.

VW will seek the least expensive outcome. Also realize that KF was hired by VW, works for VW, and is PR window dressing first and foremost.


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shovelhd

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Not saying this is in anyway a fact but a really close friend of mine is a tech at a large Volkswagen stealership, he told me this today "I'm not really sure what the future is going to be but I know they said they're going to fix 14s and 15s but there's a few years that they're probably going to buy back. I know the 12s are probably going to get bought back but idk about the 10s and If they did do a buy back they would probably offer a super low price on a 15 for all the people that it effects"
So it seems the dealers are kinda waiting for the same info we are
Fixing 14's and 15's only makes no sense. They are two completely different platforms with two completely different emission systems. Why develop a fix for just the 14's and not older cars that meet some kind of buyback threshold?
 

Loafing

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I doubt that VW customers, employees, dealers, investors, etc. rank too high in the EPA's priority list. Pushing environmental agendas, such as saving baby seals and pushing EVs are likely at the top.

That being said...I doubt very much that any of those things (customers, employees, dealers, and investors) are ranked too highly for VW either.
Said baby seal went to the bar, what did it order?
 

IFRCFI

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Fixing 14's and 15's only makes no sense. They are two completely different platforms with two completely different emission systems. Why develop a fix for just the 14's and not older cars that meet some kind of buyback threshold?

Think Federal Emissions Warranty. 80,000 miles. (Different in CA). Why bother. Make a deal.


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Ojibguy

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So the EPA's solution is US gets electric VWs, made in the US, and chains of charging stations, all in lieu of (or in partial) compensation for VW screwing owners? Will Canadian owners, who VW arguably screwed and continue to screw to a greater degree than American ones (e.g. shorted on the credit cards) maybe zip across the border when they need a charge? Great solution.
 
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2015vwgolfdiesel

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I doubt that VW customers, employees, dealers, investors, etc. rank too high in the EPA's priority list. Pushing environmental agendas, such as saving baby seals and pushing EVs are likely at the top.

That being said...I doubt very much that any of those things (customers, employees, dealers, and investors) are ranked too highly for VW either.
Drop dead EPA

Ken ~~ show diesel owners the $$$$
 

gerry100

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Only one thing should really matter to TDI owners when the smoke clears ( no pun intended)-

What will VW do to make 500,000 owners ( and friends and family) happy?

If treated fairly, they could build their brand.

If not, there are plenty of good vehicle choices out there and they will suffer immense damage in the market long term.

Drive on and wait and see.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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So the EPA's solution is US gets electric VWs, made in the US, and chains of charging stations, all in lieu of (or in partial) compensation for VW screwing owners? Will Canadian owners, who VW arguably screwed and continue to screw to a greater degree than American ones (e.g. shorted on the credit cards) maybe zip across the border when they need a charge? Great solution.

Amen -- Drop dead EPA -- vw show diesel owners the $$$$:mad:
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Only one thing should really matter to TDI owners when the smoke clears ( no pun intended)-

What will VW do to make 500,000 owners ( and friends and family) happy?

If treated fairly, they could build their brand.

If not, there are plenty of good vehicle choices out there and they will suffer immense damage in the market long term. <snip>

I am really thinking vw has a death wish.
 

dmarsingill

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Are you saying that the scandal has nothing to do with resale values?
Not as much as you and others think. Mine has only dropped a normal amount since last July.($1,000) KBB has my car and a similar gasser at $9900 and $6200. In July it was worth $10,900. I have put 15,000 miles on it since then. Seems normal to me. When mine was new, it dropped like a rock until it was about 1/2 of what I paid for it. This was along time before the scandal. The main contributor is fuel cost, demand, and market saturation. The few people that want a diesel already own one. The "car every 2" crowd is trying to unload them at the same time. This brings the price down. The scandal might have a small percentage of affect.

Donald
 

coloradogolftdi

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Colorado Springs
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The scandal amounts to a reduction in resale value.
It's actually a little more then just resale. I am held hostage to a car I no longer want. I have a baby due in 4 weeks, I need a bigger car, 4 door, something useful as a family car. I can't trade my car in for fair value. I could trade it in and loose money. Then I would no longer be part of the process to get paid for damages as I no longer even own a VW. So I can't do anything. I can buy another vehicle but VW is never going to pay my damages for being forced into own two vehicles at the same time. Heaven forbid I get a big repair at this point needed on my car. It has 90K miles. I could have sold it already many times to get my next vehicle. But I don't want to take a 30% drop in value. Some dealers said they wouldn't even take it.

STUCK.

All because VW is dragging it's feet.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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It's actually a little more then just resale. I am held hostage to a car I no longer want. I have a baby due in 4 weeks, I need a bigger car, 4 door, something useful as a family car. I can't trade my car in for fair value. I could trade it in and loose money. Then I would no longer be part of the process to get paid for damages as I no longer even own a VW. So I can't do anything. I can buy another vehicle but VW is never going to pay my damages for being forced into own two vehicles at the same time. Heaven forbid I get a big repair at this point needed on my car. It has 90K miles. I could have sold it already many times to get my next vehicle. But I don't want to take a 30% drop in value. Some dealers said they wouldn't even take it.

STUCK.

All because VW is dragging it's feet.


Yes there are different situations that really harm vw owners.

All of us can not just drive it -- vw show us diesel owner the loss in our resale value.
 

dmarsingill

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It's actually a little more then just resale. I am held hostage to a car I no longer want. I have a baby due in 4 weeks, I need a bigger car, 4 door, something useful as a family car. I can't trade my car in for fair value. I could trade it in and loose money. Then I would no longer be part of the process to get paid for damages as I no longer even own a VW. So I can't do anything. I can buy another vehicle but VW is never going to pay my damages for being forced into own two vehicles at the same time. Heaven forbid I get a big repair at this point needed on my car. It has 90K miles. I could have sold it already many times to get my next vehicle. But I don't want to take a 30% drop in value. Some dealers said they wouldn't even take it.

STUCK.

All because VW is dragging it's feet.
Don't limit yourself to trading it in. The last time I traded in a car was 1996. I traded in a 1994 Wrangler with 30,000 miles on a new 1997 Wrangler. I was upside down.....never again. I've sold every car since then to a private party.

Donald
 

JohnNS

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There's really two (or more) separate parts to VW and EPA's settlement/agreement.

1) fixing the issue with current vehicles. Whether it's buyback or fix+ compensation remains to be seen and probably negotiated.

2) fines/penalties/restitution. Could be straight fines or the EV proposal, also to be negotiated.

I don't see why it will or has to be one or the other. I don't think any news on the fine settlement side is bad news for owners.

I wouldn't be surprised if they already hammered out what is being done with the vehicles pending the 3L solution. Now it's tackling the big bear - epa/carb/doj fine.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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Actually, investors are ranked high in a public company. In fact, significantly higher than customers. Economics 101.
If there is an opportunity to save significant $$, investors will trump customers every time. Remember, the US market is relatively small for VW. A VW gas customer is generally different than a VW diesel customer. And...consumer memory is generally very short.
VW will seek the least expensive outcome. Also realize that KF was hired by VW, works for VW, and is PR window dressing first and foremost.
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In a normal business arrangement, you would be correct. However, we're talking about a company that made a conscious decision to lie to investors for well over a year.;) I challenge anyone to find evidence that VW executives give more than zero f***s about their investors, or anyone else...for that matter.

Someone had an interesting point a few pages back. I would be curious to see the VW employee stock trading history that took place in the couple years leading up to September 2015. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there were more large sell orders than buying orders.
 

cut'em

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Okay VW, we're going to ask if you would be willing to take all the money we were going to fine you and invest it in electric vehicles that you can then sell to us at a premium.. Sounds to me like VW just got rewarded...
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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I don't see why it will or has to be one or the other. I don't think any news on the fine settlement side is bad news for owners.

.

Hmmm....

Respectfully,

Bad news for the diesel owners ~~ to the extent there is LESS $$$$ to compensate VW diesel owners :(
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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Don't limit yourself to trading it in. The last time I traded in a car was 1996. I traded in a 1994 Wrangler with 30,000 miles on a new 1997 Wrangler. I was upside down.....never again. I've sold every car since then to a private party.

Donald
Yes, you have the skills to sell your own car, and buy a car separate of trading. You can make $2,000 -- $4,000 or more for your skills-patience-talents. But, not everyone has those skills.
 

MichVW

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Not as much as you and others think. Mine has only dropped a normal amount since last July.($1,000) KBB has my car and a similar gasser at $9900 and $6200. In July it was worth $10,900. I have put 15,000 miles on it since then. Seems normal to me. When mine was new, it dropped like a rock until it was about 1/2 of what I paid for it. This was along time before the scandal. The main contributor is fuel cost, demand, and market saturation. The few people that want a diesel already own one. The "car every 2" crowd is trying to unload them at the same time. This brings the price down. The scandal might have a small percentage of affect.

Donald
Regardless... I highly doubt when all this is said and done, people will be rushing out to buy diesel passenger cars. There have been several articles stating how vw's scandal is hurting diesel sales across the board. I think VW has sucessfully tarnished the diesel passenger car market in the U.S.
 
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