Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[oilhammer]

I agree...it's vw ownership & management's arrogance all the way........that actually blindsided them and like the vw employees, the customers are also in the hole.......I m not a grudge-holder type of guy but in vw's case.....they will pay dearly.
I think a good solution would be that BMW takes over vw and replace all the crooked management policies and culture.

VAG probably still has enough money to write a check for all of BMW.

Some people don't seem to realize just how big VAG really is. They were still able to finish 2015 in the #8 position of the Global 500 list. Right behind Toyota, the only other carmaker in the top 10.

This fiasco will certainly hurt them, but not nearly as much as people would think, and not for nearly as long. GM survived worse. Chrysler has been bankrupted, bailed, bankrupted, bought out, bankrupted, bought out, and they are still around.

Volkswagen could sell off one of their many brands if they need even more money. I am pretty sure some wealthy Indian or Chinese or even Saudi investors would gladly buy Lamborghini or Scania or Ducati.

When Ford needed cash, they sold Volvo, Jaguar, Rover.

I do feel the longer this plays out, the worse it will get, but you have to realize the scope of what is being asked of them to do. You cannot wave a magic wand and *fix* the cars in question, and despite what a lot of people think I do not think the EPA is simply going to force a buyback unless that is the ultimate outcome of the negotiations in which the cars either cannot be fixed in a cost effective manner or some sort of grandfathered in waiver is granted.

Nobody is taking mine, I'm sure of that. I'll buy a totaled 2006 and swap VIN tags if I have to. But it won't come to that. The gov't is not going to force the owners to give up their cars, because that would punish them for something they didn't do.

 

[autdi]

I wouldn't worry about EPA regulation of your goat emissions...

Shh, I know these guys, and they have goats that are pretty cool. They're a little more expensive than your average Honda lawnmower, but they're for enthusiasts. They are crazy fun to own, especially in the low-end power. They growl, they don't roar. Far more enjoyable than your average-appliance boring Honda mower. Sure, it seems that some of them blow a stomach at random unpredictable times, and those events are punishingly expensive. But that's really rarer than you think, because people only go on the internet to ***** about their goats, not to say how awesome they are. Anyway, it seems like people who wind up with a blown goat gut fed their goat hay instead of grass, even though they put a big sign that says "WARNING GRASS ONLY." Stupid people not knowing the difference between grass and hay.

So these guys say they have a way to keep the EPA happy: they teach the goats to know when the EPA is around, and to hold their farts.

These guys have been out of work since November, and I am pretty sure they would be willing to set you up if you want.

Does putting a "for off road use only" sign on them change anything? I was under the impression the EPA was a lot more lax on off road things, that have never been certified for on road use.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

But it won't come to that. The gov't is not going to force the owners to give up their cars, because that would punish them for something they didn't do.

Sure hope you are correct ~~ And ~~~ BTW ~~~ VW just show the $$$$

 

[oilhammer]

Sure hope you are correct ~~ And ~~~ BTW ~~~ VW just show the $$$$

You can see for yourself, they are a pubic traded company. If you are a stockholder, you get monthly reports same as any other big stocks (if you choose to get them).

VLKAY is the stock tag, FYI.

 

[mjLyco]

CO2 higher with Diesel engines

Basically, when a DPF isn't installed CO2[edit: Carbon!] levels are much higher. Since the DPF does less with age and people remove them, pushing diesels in Europe has had the unintended consequence of increased NO2 and CO2[edit: Carbon!] levels.

Thanks Obama. <---(Joke)

I think passenger car diesels are dead soon.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/19/diesel-cars-may-be-be-worse-than-petrol-for-co2-emissions-report-claims

 

[14tdipassat]

Basically, when a DPF isn't installed CO2 levels are much higher. Since the DPF does less with age and people remove them, pushing diesels in Europe has had the unintended consequence of increased NO2 and CO2 levels.

Thanks Obama.

I think passenger car diesels are dead soon.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...e-than-petrol-for-co2-emissions-report-claims

Yeah, Obama. You started the EPA and wrote the diesel emissions rules in '07 and made VW violate them in '09.

 

[Torque17]

Management Policy Change

VAG probably still has enough money to write a check for all of BMW.
Some people don't seem to realize just how big VAG really is. They were still able to finish 2015 in the #8 position of the Global 500 list. Right behind Toyota, the only other carmaker in the top 10.
This fiasco will certainly hurt them, but not nearly as much as people would think, and not for nearly as long. GM survived worse. Chrysler has been bankrupted, bailed, bankrupted, bought out, bankrupted, bought out, and they are still around.
Volkswagen could sell off one of their many brands if they need even more money. I am pretty sure some wealthy Indian or Chinese or even Saudi investors would gladly buy Lamborghini or Scania or Ducati.
When Ford needed cash, they sold Volvo, Jaguar, Rover.
I do feel the longer this plays out, the worse it will get, but you have to realize the scope of what is being asked of them to do. You cannot wave a magic wand and *fix* the cars in question, and despite what a lot of people think I do not think the EPA is simply going to force a buyback unless that is the ultimate outcome of the negotiations in which the cars either cannot be fixed in a cost effective manner or some sort of grandfathered in waiver is granted.
Nobody is taking mine, I'm sure of that. I'll buy a totaled 2006 and swap VIN tags if I have to. But it won't come to that. The gov't is not going to force the owners to give up their cars, because that would punish them for something they didn't do.

Some ppl are not realizing that what vw needs is a management change, policy/cultural change...all other statistics provided (big company and so on..) is fine....arrogance can take down a company, no matter how big...this scandal is a good example. I m sure vwag has lost customers across the group, after dieselgate broke.

 

[mjLyco]

Yeah, Obama. You started the EPA and wrote the diesel emissions rules in '07 and made VW violate them in '09.

I can't tell if you're being cheeky, but I was joking. lol
These are European subsidies for diesel vehicles.
Nothing to do with the US or Obama.

 

[romad]

I can't tell if you're being cheeky, but I was joking. lol
These are European subsidies for diesel vehicles.
Nothing to do with the US or Obama.

There seem to be many posters here that are so AR any joke goes over their heads.

 

[Rico567]

There seem to be many posters here that are so AR any joke goes over their heads.

It has been thoroughly demonstrated (and is surely obvious to anyone who reads Internet posts on a regular basis) that "getting" humor when spoken and that same thing when it is written are faculties present in some people and not in others*. That's why you just used an emoticon, yes?

{Warning: serious digression}

*NB: These existence of such things is regularly denied, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, because of the constant egalitarian pressure from all sides in our times. "No child left behind" is patent nonsense, because people have different talents, skills, and capacities, and these thing do not develop at the same rate in different individuals, and sometimes not at all.

One-Quarter to one-half of even the most highly schooled populations are, in varying degrees, functionally illiterate, and cannot become literate. These persons may be quite intelligent and able to function in the everyday world, and yet be unable to read or write very much. This isn't "developmental disability" or some such: they can't do it, and never will.

We learn to listen and speak when still in diapers, and it comes without consciously working at it. Many of us who become literate learn to read and write only with great effort. These processes are so different they take place in different parts of the brain.

 

[goes2fast]

Let's not rewrite history here, folks. The German engineering at the outset of WWII was superior. They had better guns, better planes, better tanks, better submarines, rockets, jet engines...the list goes on. We were able to defeat them on sheer volume, not our engineering prowess...except for maybe the Jeep, that pretty much kicked a55. Oh, and the atomic bomb chipped in for victory as well. But the Germans had better stuff all around.
Ok, back to Dieselgate...

Lets not forget that after the German surrender, the US used a lot of the German engineers to finish developing the A bomb to defeat Japan. They also gained some German aeronautical engineers that contributed to jet aircraft development in this country. I wonder how many of those "American inventions" mentioned in an earlier post were invented by immigrants?

 

[goes2fast]

Try pulling a 7500lb Airstream with your TDI

But I can pay for a lot of comfortable motel rooms for what that suburban and airstream cost, not to mention the extra cost of fuel, maintenance, insurance etc!

 

[PFCoppinger]

I think people are confusing things. The DPF doesn't have a damn thing to do with CO2. CO2 is formed by burning fuel, black carbon, or soot, is formed by not burning the fuel completely. Diesels don't produce a lot of CO2 relative to gasoline because they convert more of the chemical energy in the fuel into work. If they are run very efficiently, they don't produce a lot of soot either, but because it is hot in the combustion chamber, and the hot oxygen doesn't have fuel to oxidize-- there is no need for lots of fuel to be there because the engine runs efficiently-- the hot oxygen reacts with something else that is also around and hot-- nitrogen-- and we get NOx. If you want less NOx, then the fuel mix has to be more rich in the combustion chamber. That means that the fuel efficiency of the engine declines. Also, if the fuel mixture is rich, not all of it burns, which makes soot.

So there is a direct tradeoff between low CO2 on the one hand, and low soot and NOx on the other.

Some scientists are thinking that soot contributes to climate change because it absorbs sunlight, as your black but-frying seats do, and because it makes snow and ice less "white" and therefore less likely to reflect heat into space.

The theory by the Guardian is that the cars are worse than reported on soot because everyone deletes the DPF, which is unsupported by anything other than speculation. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with CO2.

Diesels took off because EU policy favors low CO2, and does not focus on soot or NOx. To the extent that this policy changes, it looks more like it will be because they decide that local smog is more important than carbon emissions and climate change after all.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

The theory by the Guardian is that the cars are worse than reported on soot because everyone deletes the DPF, which is unsupported by anything other than speculation. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with CO2.

Newbie mind wants to understand Deletion of DPF.


How
What
When
Who
Why

Thanks in advance

 

[JasonCz]

they are a pubic traded company.

Freudian slip?

 

[Jeta Life]

VLKAY stock

VLKAY stock is down about a dollar and a half in trading today, around $26 a share, that's 50% off a 52 week high around $52 a share way back when the news of overtaking Toyota.
What a huge hit the stock has taken. Some may see a buying opportunity here at these depressed levels, but I would wait it out a little bit if you're considering adding it to your portfolio right now would be considered a VERY RISKY move.
Although buy low sell high would seem to indicate this is a good time to buy, it is still very risky at this point in time. Once whatever EPA news/fix news hits the airwaves MSNBC and CNBC will be all over it, until then, who really knows unless you're an insider.
Low on the year about $22 a share so we're still off that, but some would see this as not a bad time to buy, too risky though. I only invest in mutual funds now as risks are more leveraged than putting too many eggs in one basket, which can be lucrative, yet not advised.
And then there's going to be the fat cats of VW such as the corporate people who have stock options and can't sleep at night. Their stock sales are always governed and restricted because they have the inside news if there will be a fix versus a buyback, huge insider info if you're in the know. That's how the rich get richer.

 

[autdi]

Newbie mind wants to understand Deletion of DPF.


How
What
When
Who
Why

Thanks in advance

How - saw or torch
What - the DPF located between turbo and exhaust tip
When - After purchase
Who - You, or someone that doesn't care about the EPA, and you live in a state that doesn't check/inspect
Why - It could fail, and it's expensive when it does, you bought a tune already since you aren't going to have a happy ECU without the DPF unless a tune takes it into account.

Unlike a gasser removing a cat, the DPF is a flow restriction, but turbos want some back pressure, so the benefit is non-obvious. The ECU also has a number of sensors around it, and will not accept just putting a pipe in place of the DPF without some encouragement from a tune.

 

[Redgrom]

I can dream. And, it may be here at the same time VW has a resolve for our current dilemma (sure).

Your being overly optimistic! I'm sure Kia will have it available before vw figures anything out!

 

[oilhammer]

VLKAY stock is down about a dollar and a half in trading today, around $26 a share, that's 50% off a 52 week high around $52 a share way back when the news of overtaking Toyota.
What a huge hit the stock has taken. Some may see a buying opportunity here at these depressed levels, but I would wait it out a little bit if you're considering adding it to your portfolio right now would be considered a VERY RISKY move.
Although buy low sell high would seem to indicate this is a good time to buy, it is still very risky at this point in time. Once whatever EPA news/fix news hits the airwaves MSNBC and CNBC will be all over it, until then, who really knows unless you're an insider.
Low on the year about $22 a share so we're still off that, but some would see this as not a bad time to buy, too risky though. I only invest in mutual funds now as risks are more leveraged than putting too many eggs in one basket, which can be lucrative, yet not advised.
And then there's going to be the fat cats of VW such as the corporate people who have stock options and can't sleep at night. Their stock sales are always governed and restricted because they have the inside news if there will be a fix versus a buyback, huge insider info if you're in the know. That's how the rich get richer.

Agreed, but the stock market in general is down. So while certainly MOST of VAG's stock value drop is due to Dieselgate, some of it is just due to the normal downturn of the markets in general. However, during much of the recent (last ~8 years or so) of the stock market highs and lows, VAG was historically strong. And they were WAY strong, stronger than pretty much any of the other major carmakers, during the really bad days when Ford and GM were selling off brands, GM was circling the drain, and Chrysler was being tossed around like a hot potato all the while Toyota was going recall crazy trying to mop up a mess of unattended acceleration issues.

Volkswagen flew too close to the sun, and has gotten pretty burned. That's for sure.

 

[romad]

Lets not forget that after the German surrender, the US used a lot of the German engineers to finish developing the A bomb to defeat Japan. They also gained some German aeronautical engineers that contributed to jet aircraft development in this country. I wonder how many of those "American inventions" mentioned in an earlier post were invented by immigrants?

Ah, no regarding the Manhattan Project as it was in its final stages by then. However, aeronautical and other German technologists were brought to these United States beginning in 1949 under "Operation Paperclip".

 

[Mike91326]

I was at my dealer this morning for my 100K service (oil change, cabin air filter, etc). My service advisor looked over my car and then went to his computer. After a few minutes he came back and said "I recommend that you only do the oil change". When I asked about other services he told me "It would be a waste of money".

I thought this was very interesting because every time I've had my Jetta serviced at the dealer in the past they have always tried to up sell me.

 

[kitarkus]

I was at my dealer this morning for my 100K service (oil change, cabin air filter, etc). My service advisor looked over my car and then went to his computer. After a few minutes he came back and said "I recommend that you only do the oil change". When I asked about other services he told me "It would be a waste of money".
I thought this was very interesting because every time I've had my Jetta serviced at the dealer in the past they have always tried to up sell me.

I agree this is unusual for any dealer service department. That said, I wouldn't read too much into this anomaly. Your Service adviser is highly unlikely to know any more than you do. Given that you read here....the service adviser likely knows less than you do about dieselgate.

 

[awjohnson22]

FWIW I looked up Ken Feinberg and found his office email.. kfeinberg@feinberglawoffices.com
Not sure if he or his office will even read it, but I figure it can't hurt.
Mr. Feinberg,
I am one of the affected owners of a Volkswagen 2.0 TDi. I am part of a large (and growing) community of TDi enthusiasts who are growing increasingly frustrated by the lack of information and communication concerning our cars. Many of us have suffered financial loss and hardship due to lost value, inability to trade in or sell, and the the impending "fixes" that will no doubt degrade the cars' performance and fuel economy. Everyday that goes by with no news adds to the distrust many of us already feel with VW and those they have entrusted to fix these issues and fairly compensate owners. We are all in different situations with our vehicles, but the one thing we have in common is that we just want answers. So far, there has been secrecy, deception and ignorance of affected owners. The sooner owners are compensated the better for all parties concerned. Your past dealings with GM and BP are reflective in your ability to quickly and fairly compensate affected persons. Please do the same for us.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Newbie mind wants to understand Deletion of DPF.


How - Replace entire exhaust system after the turbo and modify the ECU programming to match
What - Same as above
When - When you care only about power and no longer care about emissions.
Who - Several companies sell the hardware and a custom tune is also required.
Why - Because you have more money in your pocket than you need. Also see "when" above.

Thanks in advance

The DPF is almost never deleted by itself. The DPF, EGR system, LNT, mufflers and resonators are usually all deleted at the same time. This is highly illegal, but it does eliminate some possible parts failures plus it removes restrictions that can increase power.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[Rico567]

FWIW I looked up Ken Feinberg and found his office email.. kfeinberg@feinberglawoffices.com
Not sure if he or his office will even read it, but I figure it can't hurt.
Mr. Feinberg,
<snip>

Nice letter, but Mr. Feinberg may be in a position where he can't say anything about the ongoing negotiations because of mutual agreement among all parties not to do so. Something to the effect that such an agreement exists was mentioned earlier in the thread (no, I have no idea where).
I participated in bargaining union contracts for 16 years, and one of the items on the very first day's agenda in any such bargaining was an agreement to STFU about anything in the proceedings until the tentative agreement had been reached.
I am pretty sure that this is the reason that at this time we hear nothing but a resounding silence from VW, EPA, or CARB. When there's an agreement, I expect we'll hear about it. When? Whoinell knows?

 

[turbobrick240]

Ah, no regarding the Manhattan Project as it was in its final stages by then. However, aeronautical and other German technologists were brought to these United States beginning in 1949 under "Operation Paperclip".

Correct. It sickens me to think some give credit to the Germans for the Manhattan Project. Not that nuclear weapons are the best thing ever. If you must give ex nazees credit for something, how about the Apollo program and moon landings. Von Braun and other german scientists were instrumental there. And that sickens me a bit as well.

 

[aja8888]

I was at my dealer this morning for my 100K service (oil change, cabin air filter, etc). My service advisor looked over my car and then went to his computer. After a few minutes he came back and said "I recommend that you only do the oil change". When I asked about other services he told me "It would be a waste of money".
I thought this was very interesting because every time I've had my Jetta serviced at the dealer in the past they have always tried to up sell me.

Are you sure this wasn't a dream you had?

 

[romad]

Correct. It sickens me to think some give credit to the Germans for the Manhattan Project. Not that nuclear weapons are the best thing ever. If you must give ex nazees credit for something, how about the Apollo program and moon landings. Von Braun and other german scientists were instrumental there. And that sickens me a bit as well.

Well, in a twisted way you can give them "credit" for the Manhattan Project. It was a letter to FDR signed by Albert Einstein that started the ball rolling. If the National Socialist's ideas had not forced Einstein to leave Germany, he would not have been in America.

 

[Jeta Life]

Volkswagen not only flew too close to the sun and are getting burned, they launched for the moon and ended up getting CELs and the dreaded P0401 insufficient EGR flow, the story of my TDIs life.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

FWIW I looked up Ken Feinberg and found his office email.. kfeinberg@feinberglawoffices.com
Not sure if he or his office will even read it, but I figure it can't hurt.
Mr. Feinberg,
I am one of the affected owners of a Volkswagen 2.0 TDi. I am part of a large (and growing) community of TDi enthusiasts who are growing increasingly frustrated by the lack of information and communication concerning our cars. Many of us have suffered financial loss and hardship due to lost value, inability to trade in or sell, and the the impending "fixes" that will no doubt degrade the cars' performance and fuel economy. Everyday that goes by with no news adds to the distrust many of us already feel with VW and those they have entrusted to fix these issues and fairly compensate owners. We are all in different situations with our vehicles, but the one thing we have in common is that we just want answers. So far, there has been secrecy, deception and ignorance of affected owners. The sooner owners are compensated the better for all parties concerned. Your past dealings with GM and BP are reflective in your ability to quickly and fairly compensate affected persons. Please do the same for us.

YES

YES

YES

Dear Ken ~~ wishing you had to wait ~~ as long as we are waiting to get a check in the mail