Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[roostre]

Did VW make any change to the hpfp since 2009?
.....

The most recently released publicly available data from VW for HPFP design changes thru November 2012 is on page 4 of the NHTSA Engineering Analysis Closing Report for investigation EA 11-003 dated March 17, 2015 and available at URL:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM475595/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf

EDIT:
Please do not ask me why the NHTSA did not investigate HPFP design changes or failure data for the most recent 2+ years before they closed the investigation.
That is an unsolved mystery..

 

[Jeta Life]

Continuing with the hypothetical games, I just thought of a reason why EPA rejected VW.
VW's proposed plan PROBABLY called for a buyback of only 2009 models since those only have the one piece DPF design. There should be 4 Gens not 3
Gen 1 should be 2009s only
Gen 2s s/b 2010 to 2014, etc. VW probably wants to crush only 2009s since they do not want to give every 2009 owner a new DPF
What I call for is for VW to be punished by redesigning all 2009s to the upgraded 2010 2 piece design as additional punishment.
I did my redesign thru VW customer care but only thru helpful dealer manager where I bought my car, it was not easy to use get that job approved since it is a $5500+ job.
The new proposed Mullite NOx converter can then be installed on all Gen1s
Gens 2 & 3 flash fix and settlement from Feinberg, cases closed
I am almost certain VW shot itself in the foot by only wanting to buy back 2009s because of heir self admitted "flawed design" which requires 2009 owners to pay for NOx cat and H2S cats which is not fair, they acknowledged that to me if it helps anybody.
Also.... Wonder why Service Action 2306 discluded 2009 models...they only flashed 2010+ models, not the 2009s because they were PROBABLY fearful that the flashes would fry or crack the 2009's fragile one piece "flawed design" system...just a thought
VW can very well repair these cars with the new Mullite converters but EPA probably wants to punish them by trying to force a full scale buyback, not fair of the EPA either. Punish VW by forcing them to give all 2009 owners new DPFs with new Mullite converters and we're all good
Gens 2, 3 & 4 (my idea) since Gen 1 SHOULD BE 2009s only !!!!!!

 

[JohnQ]

Would you guys buy back your total loss TDI from the insurance company for for under 1000 bucks? (550 value plus the cost of the tow home)?

I cant say i am happy with the figure they gave me, but really no other option... i am eithing taking the full payment, or taking the full payment less the junk value of the car.

My only thought is perhaps its a worthwhile chance to take in the event VW either offers compensation or sone other form of restitution for my ****ty vehicle value.

I just dont know if i am dreaming, being that it will not be repaired, and it will be branded as salvage.

Im thinking there are many possible scenarios that could benefit me and only two that wont.

One being, VW says salvage vehicles are no longer included in any further restitution offers.
Two being, VW says the car must be operable/driveable.

If it means pre september book value, i can even get it fixed if it means getting a larger figure from VW closer to pre sept value.

What would you do. Car is a 2009 jetta.

 

[autdi]

Would you guys buy back your total loss TDI from the insurance company for for under 1000 bucks? (550 value plus the cost of the tow home)?

I cant say i am happy with the figure they gave me, but really no other option... i am eithing taking the full payment, or taking the full payment less the junk value of the car.

My only thought is perhaps its a worthwhile chance to take in the event VW either offers compensation or sone other form of restitution for my ****ty vehicle value.

I just dont know if i am dreaming, being that it will not be repaired, and it will be branded as salvage.

Im thinking there are many possible scenarios that could benefit me and only two that wont.

One being, VW says salvage vehicles are no longer included in any further restitution offers.
Two being, VW says the car must be operable/driveable.

If it means pre september book value, i can even get it fixed if it means getting a larger figure from VW closer to pre sept value.

What would you do. Car is a 2009 jetta.

If you aren't planning to fix it then probably no. You have a documented loss based on loss of value, this should be fairly easy to prove, and I'd expect the offers made would have to have some provision for those that lost the car through no choice of their own. Would having the car still change anything, I don't know, but regardless you have a provable loss of value. If they do a buyback, I'd expect to be offered as if the car still existed, and then get the offer less the insurance payout, as the car is already at the crusher. That's the one thing that might change things, if someone else buys it, then it's still a problem for VW, if it's been destroyed, it's satisfied the point of the buyback.

 

[jhawklver]

****This is what you need to understand*******
You are arguing with me about a HYPOTHETICAL settlement and what I will take hypothetically, compared to what you would be willing to take hypothetically.
You will not get any more money for your vehicle because "you were not ready to sell and I was". That makes no difference AT ALL.
For all I care, when they offer you $xx,xxx.xx for your car, keep the damn thing if that is what suits you. I really don't care.
Your feathers should not be ruffled if I am in a position to take a lower number than you are because I am frustrated with VW and this entire disaster. One of my vehicles is paid off and I am not upside down on my other loan even by today's Kbb.com value.
Ignore the settlement you are offered and "drive more, worry less" if that is what suits you. Stop being so obtuse.

Only one of us is being obtuse, and it isn't me. We are all arguing "hypothetical" stuff. The point is not that I'll get more than you, that I think I should get more than you or that I expect more than you. The point is if they want 90%, someone in my situation will require a higher offer to comply than you because you want out at all costs and I don't. You are more motivated to be done than me. I'm not experiencing a life event that has changed my situation. I've not had multiple heavy duty expenses that have me ready to be out at all costs like you. Given that you've stated this over and over, of course you'll be more tempted to take a borderline offer than me. That's the only thing I'm saying. The offer will be an equation and if that equation is close to KBB pre scandal you're more likely to accept than me. You are ready to cut your losses and run and I'm not. I'd be willing to participate in a buy back but not at all costs and certainly not at a negative impact to me. I'm repeating myself in the hope you'll finally understand I'm not talking about the actual offer... but the motivation to take an offer. It is pretty obvious your motivation to be out of your car is higher than mine and thus logical to realize they'll need to do more to get me out of my car than you out of yours.

I'm not upside down on my car either, and haven't been since early on. I'm not expecting to trade a used car for a new one. I'm just not going to downgrade AND pay out of pocket for their mistake. If I come out of pocket it will be because I decide to upgrade.

By all means though, completely ignore logic and tell me again that your motivation to get out at all cost doesn't matter compared to those of us who were looking to keep our cars for 5+ years. We're all likely to decide to take the offer (if there is one) or not at the same %, right?

 

[durundal]

Continuing with the hypothetical games, I just thought of a reason why EPA rejected VW.
VW's proposed plan PROBABLY called for a buyback of only 2009 models since those only have the one piece DPF design. There should be 4 Gens not 3
Gen 1 should be 2009s only
Gen 2s s/b 2010 to 2014, etc. VW probably wants to crush only 2009s since they do not want to give every 2009 owner a new DPF
What I call for is for VW to be punished by redesigning all 2009s to the upgraded 2010 2 piece design as additional punishment.
I did my redesign thru VW customer care but only thru helpful dealer manager where I bought my car, it was not easy to use get that job approved since it is a $5500+ job.
The new proposed Mullite NOx converter can then be installed on all Gen1s
Gens 2 & 3 flash fix and settlement from Feinberg, cases closed
I am almost certain VW shot itself in the foot by only wanting to buy back 2009s because of heir self admitted "flawed design" which requires 2009 owners to pay for NOx cat and H2S cats which is not fair, they acknowledged that to me if it helps anybody.
Also.... Wonder why Service Action 2306 discluded 2009 models...they only flashed 2010+ models, not the 2009s because they were PROBABLY fearful that the flashes would fry or crack the 2009's fragile one piece "flawed design" system...just a thought
VW can very well repair these cars with the new Mullite converters but EPA probably wants to punish them by trying to force a full scale buyback, not fair of the EPA either. Punish VW by forcing them to give all 2009 owners new DPFs with new Mullite converters and we're all good
Gens 2, 3 & 4 (my idea) since Gen 1 SHOULD BE 2009s only !!!!!!

Show us a part number for a mullite cat from any manufacturer. They are not out of the lab yet and CARB rejected VW's science project timeline.

 

[bockegg]

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

 

[jhawklver]

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

This answer has to depend on criteria. I'd be crazy not to in a 4 year old car. I'd not be so eager if my car was newer. Is the swap straight across, meaning I get new car and same loan amount? What about options on the car? Lots of variables but overall those with cars older than a few years how do you not make the change even if VW's pissed you off.

 

[bockegg]

This answer has to depend on criteria. I'd be crazy not to in a 4 year old car. I'd not be so eager if my car was newer. Is the swap straight across, meaning I get new car and same loan amount? What about options on the car? Lots of variables but overall those with cars older than a few years how do you not make the change even if VW's pissed you off.

I take that as a yes. I agree there are specifics here, and newer owners will likely be NO voters. but if they trade you up to a new similarly equipped vehicle, then you are in the YES category

 

[haunruh]

New TSI for my 5 yr old TDI? YES!!

 

[bockegg]

New TSI for my 5 yr old TDI? YES!!

So far 3 in yes category. 100%

 

[Geobmx4life]

TSI for TDI

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

YES..…TURN AROUND, SELL IT, FIND A CLEAN MKIV TDI ALH OR BEW....wouldn't matter.

 

[bockegg]

YES..…TURN AROUND, SELL IT, FIND A CLEAN MKIV TDI ALH OR BEW....wouldn't matter.

4 in yes category. 100%. I forgot to mention that I am a yes. that is how I got to 4 yes

 

[VarmintSlayer]

I received 11k for my 01 when it was written off in 08, but that was then and the market has changed.
11k seems far fetched now.

 

[jhawklver]

It's an easy decision. New car for 4 year old car?

If a fix happens I will make equivalent or close MPG, still pay more for gas OR you are offering me a new car?

You are going to get majority of yes answers. What is the point of this?

 

[reflexsportwagen]

There is no similar gasser....

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

NO.

(Sorry, beyond one word, but I'll explain. In VW's infinite wisdom, the option for a 6SPD Sportwagen gasser is a poorly equipped, cloth seated, shell. No thanks, write me a check. If they had a gasser 6SPD SEL Sportwagen, I'd do it.)

 

[bockegg]

It's an easy decision. New car for 4 year old car?

If a fix happens I will make equivalent or close MPG, still pay more for gas OR you are offering me a new car?

You are going to get majority of yes answers. What is the point of this?

To see if I can get close to a raw 90% as mentioned in Reuters article. Just want to see what I believe is a generous offer. Pure speculation because they may only offer generous swaps to Gen 1 and gen 2, but it will be fun to see what people think. Also, they are reading this

 

[bockegg]

NO.

(Sorry, beyond one word, but I'll explain. In VW's infinite wisdom, the option for a 6SPD Sportwagen gasser is a poorly equipped, cloth seated, shell. No thanks, write me a check. If they had a gasser 6SPD SEL Sportwagen, I'd do it.)

4 yes. 1 no. I assume a generous $ offer would work for you?

 

[767wrench]

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

No. Already had to re engineer the passat to be reliable. Not starting over. Wont own another vw after this due to loss of value and major component failures at low mileage. (pre mods)

 

[TDILeo]

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

That would be the only scenario for me to remain a VW customer. It was between a new GTI and a new TDI when I pulled the trigger. And while I enjoy the TDI, I am not married to it. I just want a peppy, legally COMPLIANT vehicle and move on. Not interested in 'damages', lawsuits or any legal tomfoolery. I only want to exchange my NONcompliant VW for a compliant one. That is all.

 

[bockegg]

No. Already had to re engineer the passat to be reliable. Not starting over. Wont own another vw after this due to loss of value and major component failures at low mileage. (pre mods)

4 yes. 2 no. Would you accept a generous $ offer.

 

[bockegg]

That would be the only scenario for me to remain a VW customer. It was between a new GTI and a new TDI when I pulled the trigger. And while I enjoy the TDI, I am not married to it. I just want a peppy, legally COMPLIANT vehicle and move on. Not interested in 'damages', lawsuits or any legal tomfoolery. I only want to exchange my NONcompliant VW for a compliant one. That is all.

5 yes. 2 no

 

[PeteZ06]

I would.. because the value of our cars is starting to tank and in the future I'm thinking the only way to sell it or trade it in would involve a bending over. If they're willing to give a generous offer then I'll take it when I can come out ahead. But it does need to be very generous.

 

[bockegg]

I would.. because the value of our cars is starting to tank and in the future I'm thinking the only way to sell it or trade it in would involve a bending over. If they're willing to give a generous offer then I'll take it when I can come out ahead. But it does need to be very generous.

6 yes. 2 no

 

[JohnNS]

I would like to start a yes or no only question if I may. if VW offers you a new TSI gasser for your current TDi, would you accept it? Yes or no?

Hard to answer this with yes or no. In theory, if the same style car (wagon) suited my current needs, yes I would. But VW doesn't have what I currently (well, 6 month ago) need - more carrying capacity so I would be a no.

But then I could sell the gasser and roll that over to the vehicle I need, so yes.. maybe?

 

[bockegg]

Hard to answer this with yes or no. In theory, if the same style car (wagon) suited my current needs, yes I would. But VW doesn't have what I currently (well, 6 month ago) need - more carrying capacity so I would be a no.

But then I could sell the gasser and roll that over to the vehicle I need, so yes.. maybe?

I understand the sportwagon dilemma. i count that as a maybe

 

[reflexsportwagen]

Money talks

I understand the sportwagon dilemma. i count that as a maybe

Cash works, as I'd be heading elsewhere to buy.

 

[angelman]

GO with legal action or not?

I was going to start a new thread but thought I Might as well join in the fun here. I know this has been discussed to varying degrees but I am still unsure.
Lawyers who contacted me when this first blew up finally got around to sending me paper work for a standard retainer. They are representing about 100 people using the California Lemon law. They have excellent reviews on yelp at least for general consumer civil lawsuits.
What I don't quite understand is what do I have to lose if I join in this thing. It's not a class action suit. Their stated aim is to recover enough money for me to get a new car because the car was sold to me fraudulently. They will of course take a cut of the "winnings", I think something like 10%.
Why wouldn't I do this (forgetting any moral, ethical things). From a purely selfish, financial position what do I have to lose? Would this preclude me from any VW settlement? Is it possible/likely that I end up winning only a pittance from this action and then lose out on say a buyback from VW (law firm says this is a completely separate matter from any potential buybacks).
I guess the picture they paint is that this is a way to get a decent settlement (maybe MSRP) and most likely faster than whatever VW may or may not offer.
I take this all with a pinch of salt of course. I love my car but it has done 130,000miles now so if someone were to offer me enough money for a new car I wouldn't say no. Then again if VW offered a brand new gas sportwagon I would be happy with that too. What I don't want to do is be forced to sell my car for KBB and then have to buy something new. I intended this car to last at least 10 years or more.

 

[Adkhunter1590]

I'd say yes. I would likely trade it in at a different dealer shortly after getting it as I need a truck but I'd still take a new car from VW. My question is though...what kind of car would they be willing to offer? We paid a premium for our TDIs so are they going to offer us higher end models like GLIs and GTIs or at least nicely equipped Jettas/passats.

 

[767wrench]

4 yes. 2 no. Would you accept a generous $ offer.

If i got 150% pre scandal blue book Excellent condition with no strings attached to spend it at VW I would be a yes for buyback. No lower than that. That would wipe out what i owe and restore how much i put down initially. But Im one that would like to get out but cant afford to currently.