Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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CHenry

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2010 Golf TDI DSG 4-door (sold)
Fact of the matter... In 2009, as far as economy is concerned, VW was really setting a standard with their diesel vehicles. Only the Hybrids could come close, and we all know there is the fun to drive factor to consider. However, in 2015-2016 The TDI is not such a diamond in the rough. You can pull 35-39 MPG out of a Ford Focus and pay less for gasoline. I would rather drive my TDI than a Focus, but the TDI is not special anymore when considering economy. Sure it is a diesel, But that just translates to paying more at the pump and costing more to fix when something fails.. The Economy advantage that the TDI used to have is long gone. IMO.
If not gone, then close to gone. Even the VW gassers are catching up. and when you factor in price premiums for diesels--assuming they ever sell them here again--then you may have no relative advantage anymore.

I have to wonder whether VW wouldn't have been better off adding the AdBlue in 2009, charging a little more and sweetening the deal with a longer basic warranty and service plan just for the diesels.
 
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jayp111

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And if this isn't the forum for you, then by all means feel free to move on to another
Given that the overwhelming majority of what has historically been posted and continues to be posted outside of this single narcissistic dumpster sized grease fire of a thread I think I'm in the right place

If all folks are going to do is complain about something that doesnt impact safety or reliability then maybe its time to consider getting out of the TDI and buying a toaster/appliance oriented vehicle

These cars are not for everyone and I've waived away a number of folks over the years that just arent good candidates for these cars
 

maybe368

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Happily none
I don't know of one rep or senator that's helped anyone I know (That's not to say they haven't but I don't know about it.)
I know of at least one recent case here in AZ where calls and letters almost immediately reversed something. A state legislator recently introduced a bill that would have gutted the medical marijuana law. Within a week, after hundreds, if not thousands, of calls and letters he withdrew the bill. It also serves as notice to any other legislator that tries the same thing, that it will happen to them. Here, more than 60% of the people support it, while 75% of the legislators don't. It is a confusing disconnect...Mrk
 

CHenry

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It would be really nice if people on this forum would quit whining incessantly about what VW should do for them besides fix their cars

This forum used to be all about people who enjoyed their cars and shared info about fixing issues and more importantly how to AVOID them through proper maint
Not quite.

This forum thread is about the VW TDI emissions scandal and the manner by which it is affecting the owners of those cars. As there is no solution presented by VW at this time for those of us in North America, and because the uncertainty that a "solution" exists, there is naturally speculation and controversy. Whether you want to entertain the facts or not, this is a big deal, and it does represent both a wide-scale violation of U.S. and state laws and is a fraud against the buyers of the cars.

If you don't want to read opinions different to yours, then you might spend your time elsewhere. Telling posters who disagree with you or who criticize VW for its conduct to quit whining is rude, belittling and contrary to most accepted net conduct policies. If you have a case on facts and reasoning, stick to the issues and make your case. I am surprised the mods haven't at least warned you. And you are as guilty of trolling as anyone I have seen here.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
I only used the word 'democracy' as shorthand for a society like our own where people do indeed enjoy the benefits of freedom of expression.
There are nations we would almost certainly call "democratic" in the sense we use it in the contemporary world who enjoy no specified rights whatsoever. Canada would be a good example; people have exactly the rights that Parliament lets them have on any given day, and those could be taken away tomorrow. The U.K. is exactly the same way, tyranny by elected majority. In Britain, the people enjoy whatever rights Parliament (or, to be more accurate, the House of Commons) says that they have.
In fact, the United States is pretty much unique in having a Bill of Rights that the citizenry actually expects the government to follow. Other nations may have such documents, but they are followed at whim by the government.
Of course, what many people regard as their rights can be and often are completely ludicrous. The person on the street is liable to conceive their "rights" as anything immediately benefitting them.
 

jayp111

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Not quite.

This forum thread is about the VW TDI emissions scandal and the manner by which it is affecting the owners of those cars. As there is no solution presented by VW at this time for those of us in North America, and because the uncertainty that a "solution" exists, there is naturally speculation and controversy. Whether you want to entertain the facts or not, this is a big deal, and it does represent both a wide-scale violation of U.S. and state laws and is a fraud against the buyers of the cars.

If you don't want to read opinions different to yours, then you might spend your time elsewhere. Telling posters who disagree with you or who criticize VW for its conduct to quit whining is rude, belittling and contrary to most accepted net conduct policies. If you have a case on facts and reasoning, stick to the issues and make your case. I am surprised the mods haven't at least warned you. And you are as guilty of trolling as anyone I have seen here.
Why dont you check the OP of this dumpster sized grease fire of a thread and tell us all how 99% of whats been posted in the last THOUSAND PAGES of posts is meaningful in any way let alone relevent....simply put its not......I suspect the thread exists as an attempt to contain the excessive nonsense from polluting the rest of the forum.....but its just a guess

If you hate the car you are free to sell it because the endless non gratuitous complaining accomplishes nothing
 

mjLyco

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NJ
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2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
I really want to post the gif of that guy angrily hammering away at his keyboard until his arms fall off, but then I'll probably be the one who gets banned. lol
 

gcodori

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northern california (bay area)
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2001 NB TDI plus CPO 2013 Passat TDI SEL Prem.
For those who are interested, the United States is technically a Constitutional Republic. This is when officials represent the public and govern the state under laws of a constitution.

Not quite sure what this all has to do with diesels, though.

Getting back to the scandal and penalties, fixes, etc...

I posted a few day back about how most companies pay much reduced fines to the US government. Elizabeth Warren released a study of the most egregious wrist-slapping penalties, including the GM penalty for the ignition fiasco that killed people. The website includes a link to the full report. Page 6 deals with automotive issues.

http://boingboing.net/2016/01/29/elizabeth-warrens-new-1-th.html

A snippet from the report:
GM paid under 1 percent of company revenue to settle claims on the faulty ignition switch that killed multiple vehicle passengers.

I think this may be one of the reasons VW has begun hiring "experts" to deal with compensation to the government and the public.

THOUGHTS?
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
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Location
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2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Have you ever written your senators or congressman regarding an issue such as this and had them reply with anything other than "Some of my friends are for it and some of my friends are against it. As for me, I'm for my friends."? Tell me the last time they moved the earth and skies for you. I've never gotten anywhere.
Depends on the rep/senator

I do know people who have been helped by elected officials to get stuff resolved
I don't know of one rep or senator that's helped anyone I know (That's not to say they haven't but I don't know about it.)
It totally depends on the issue at hand. When I interned for two state senators while doing my undergrad, we would log all letters into a database, whether the senator agreed with an issue or not, and they would all be sent individual letters acknowledging the letter and the issue. Some letters/issues DID get personalized responses, but due to the overwhelming amount of correspondence (email and otherwise), most just got an acknowledgment letter. Of course, we interns were the ones who did all that work. Honestly, the best way to get a response if anyone here does go that route - either call up the office and speak to the district rep (there should be several per office) or schedule an in-person visit. You get far better results that way, and some issues, yes, you do get personalized help (since your tax dollars pay their salaries, so they're obligated to help you). I personally wouldn't waste my time with a letter or email to an elected official.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Not sure if I would buy another TDI simply based on the associated costs with the emission system. That gives me the heebie jeebies. That said, all new cars are much more complex and the average owner might have reservations about tackling some maintenance items. TDI or not, cars have associated maintenance costs, some expensive. It is why I keep my 85 GTI. I can do a lot of it myself.

If a 'buyback' is in the cards, I suppose a GTI would work for me. There really aren't many cars at that price point that deliver like VW. The whole package, cabin, handling, utility and performance is hard to walk away from.
I test drove a GTI while I was getting warranty work done years ago. They only had the DSG, but it was a FUN car to drive. But for me, not practical because of less cargo space and fuel economy. If I did buy a gasser, the GTI would be the only one I would consider. But the 2.0 and 2.5 gassers? Crap. Only way I'd take one is if someone gave me a working one for free.

If I do buy another TDI in the future, I'd probably look at a VE or PD Golf or Jetta wagon with a standard transmission. I agree, the emissions on the CR is too much of a headache.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
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Location
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TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
If you don't want to read opinions different to yours, then you might spend your time elsewhere. Telling posters who disagree with you or who criticize VW for its conduct to quit whining is rude, belittling and contrary to most accepted net conduct policies. If you have a case on facts and reasoning, stick to the issues and make your case. I am surprised the mods haven't at least warned you. And you are as guilty of trolling as anyone I have seen here.
Sorry to break it to you jayp111, but I agree with CHenry - all of us have different needs/expectations out of our cars. I'm sure complaining on both sides of the fence won't stop, but still, we all need to agree to disagree.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
Sorry to break it to you jayp111, but I agree with CHenry - all of us have different needs/expectations out of our cars. I'm sure complaining on both sides of the fence won't stop, but still, we all need to agree to disagree.
This is a good reminder. I have used the ignore list five times more on this thread than all the rest of TDI Club put together (that's 5 to 0). And there are a couple in the bullpen warming up right now. Let's stop with the ad hominem attacks, in particular!
 

IFRCFI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Location
Winchester, VA
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Lux
This forum used to be all about people who enjoyed their cars and shared info about fixing issues and more importantly how to AVOID them through proper maint

It still is, in the thousands of other threads that simultaneously exist in this forum.

One thread does not a forum make. It's really easy to not click on this one.....just saying.

Also, be thankful for this thread. It is a garbage collector to keep the rest of the forum true to its purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

romad

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Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
This is a good reminder. I have used the ignore list five times more on this thread than all the rest of TDI Club put together (that's 5 to 0). And there are a couple in the bullpen warming up right now. Let's stop with the ad hominem attacks, in particular!
+1 At least one of those in my list has been banned permanently (I believe) so I can probably delete that person.
 

maybe368

Veteran Member
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Location
Phoenix
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Happily none
It still is, in the thousands of other threads that simultaneously exist in this forum.

One thread does not a forum make. It's really easy to not click on this one.....just saying.

Also, be thankful for this thread. It is a garbage collector to keep the rest of the forum true to its purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let us not forget the more than 2.7 million individual views that threadzilla has attracted. I would think that that would make the vendors, sponsors (if any) and anyone else that likes publicity happy. As we all know, any publicity is good publicity...Mark
 

froman118

Member
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Oct 1, 2015
Location
Southern California
TDI
2010 JSW
This is a good reminder. I have used the ignore list five times more on this thread than all the rest of TDI Club put together (that's 5 to 0). And there are a couple in the bullpen warming up right now. Let's stop with the ad hominem attacks, in particular!
Ha, I've added 5 to my ignore list as well (one isn't needed any longer). Any wagers on them being the same?

I've been lurking as my exact position and feelings have been expressed by others. I've been very lucky on maintenance with our low mileage 2010 JSW TDI (66k, tires, oil, DSG service so far), but our family has grown and we were looking at minivans before Dieselgate hit. Now I feel trapped until this gets resolved as getting out now could cost us $2k-5k easy depending on diminished value, compensation and/or buy back terms.

We're in CA so everything seems to be pointing to a buy back for us. We would maybe consider getting into a new Passat if the deal was sweet enough. With so much uncertainty and zero official communication about proposed plans we're being forced to sit and wait with the hope that we'll come out better at some undetermined point in time vs selling now. My main hope is that nothing major happens (HPFP, DPF, EGR valve, glow plugs, DSG, turbo) before we're able to get out of this car.
 

romad

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Joined
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Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Ha, I've added 5 to my ignore list as well (one isn't needed any longer). Any wagers on them being the same?

I've been lurking as my exact position and feelings have been expressed by others. I've been very lucky on maintenance with our low mileage 2010 JSW TDI (66k, tires, oil, DSG service so far), but our family has grown and we were looking at minivans before Dieselgate hit. Now I feel trapped until this gets resolved as getting out now could cost us $2k-5k easy depending on diminished value, compensation and/or buy back terms.

We're in CA so everything seems to be pointing to a buy back for us. We would maybe consider getting into a new Passat if the deal was sweet enough. With so much uncertainty and zero official communication about proposed plans we're being forced to sit and wait with the hope that we'll come out better at some undetermined point in time vs selling now. My main hope is that nothing major happens (HPFP, DPF, EGR valve, glow plugs, DSG, turbo) before we're able to get out of this car.
Wonder if this will come to NA?

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/report-vw-microbus-return-electric-powertrain
 

dmarsingill

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Dacula, GA
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2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Window sticker upper right corner states "Good Clean Diesel Fun." Here I agree with you, seems to be not quantified and just some sort of an ad stating that this does not smell or whatever.

Where I disagree with you is that they put this also in the specifications on the left side of the sticker. Under Performance/Handling, they state this as

- 2.0L, 140HP, 236 lbs-ft torque in-line 4 cylinder TDI clean diesel engine

So it clearly made its way into the specs and here the customers will have a good case with the FTC
It doesn't give specs of the emissions on mine. That is what I am referring to. Clean diesel to me means no soot.

Donald
 

mjLyco

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Location
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2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
It doesn't give specs of the emissions on mine. That is what I am referring to. Clean diesel to me means no soot.
Even if they weasel out of "TDI clean diesel", which would be decided by a jury, they also accepted green car of the year awards and certified vehicles for the alternative motor vehicle tax credit. They then used those facts to market and sell TDIs. They don't have much of a case before a jury.
 

durundal

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SF Bay area
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen, Candy White/Pure Beige, DSG, panoramic roof, rear side airbags
Even if they weasel out of "TDI clean diesel", which would be decided by a jury, they also accepted green car of the year awards and certified vehicles for the alternative motor vehicle tax credit. They then used those facts to market and sell TDIs. They don't have much of a case before a jury.
Yeah, it's not like anyone expects "clean" in the context of selling cars to mean "We washed it really good before delivering it to you". Expecting what comes out of the tailpipe to be lower than the minimum emissions standards is a pretty reasonable view of "clean".
 

MichVW

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2014 JSW DSG. 2011 Golf TDI 4DR 6MT
Even if they weasel out of "TDI clean diesel", which would be decided by a jury, they also accepted green car of the year awards and certified vehicles for the alternative motor vehicle tax credit. They then used those facts to market and sell TDIs. They don't have much of a case before a jury.

Very good point...
 

froman118

Member
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Location
Southern California
TDI
2010 JSW
It might be wider in the 2nd row and make it easier to fit another person/car seat in the middle at the cost of cargo space (space behind rear seats looks pretty small). The JSW has been fine on cargo space, but with 2 car seats in the back the middle seat is not usable. Passat would be a stopgap and probably allow an additional person to squeeze in the back. Minivan (seating for 6-7) starts to look good when you want to ferry around one or two more kids which we could do now with nieces/nephews that are close in age to our daughters.
 

Marsupial

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S2000_guy

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romad

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Well, according to the article, it's to be built in North America. For whatever that's worth.

I'd think that the immediate announcement of an electric vehicle for the US in the 2017 model year would score some points with the EPA/CARB.

So, maybe.
Oops, should have specified US/Canada. There are a LOT of VWs built in Mexico that never make it across the border so I don't think of Mexico as part of the NA market.
 
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